New LCFC Accounts

[yorkie1999]

Never understood this shit, are we completely fvcked yet?

Or can I just keep thinking it's not my money, we can waste as much as we like as long as we get good eventually?

Because you're from liverpool....Yes

[Lobsterboyuk]

Also, people need to stop mixing up personal tax with corporation tax.

I'd have to sit and think about it properly to be sure, but I can't see how there would be a tax benefit in a perennially loss-making company.

Duh! you won't have any profits to pay corporation tax on

[The People's Hero]

Duh! you won't have any profits to pay corporation tax on

The ideal tax state for a company is to break even. Or take Vodafone's approach and make a whacking profit and just refuse to pay the right amount of tax.

[Happy Fox]

I think a lot still do, Petchy. It's what the big tagline was when they first arrived and loads of people started repeating it on forums like a mantra.

Many people feel that it is their duty to put money into the club for free and this reason balances it out for them. Everyone went on about how Mandy was giving the club money and swallowed everyone of his lies...but then the worm started to turn when he tightened the purse strings and stopped underwriting further loans to the club.

Without promotion this season I see history starting to repeat itself...just on a more expensive scale.

Apologies to everyone of a sensitive disposition if this opinion isn't the happy-clappy guff you'd rather be reading that falls in line with your opinions

We will have to wait and see but I fear it could turn out to that situation you have described, all I know is that we have to get promotion asap, the debt the club has sustained is too much for this level and FFP means clubs will be watched ever closer.

[ScouseFox]

Because you're from liverpool....Yes

Oh, a racial slur. Charming!

[Happy Fox]

Ian Griffin ‏ @IanGriffin75

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@MichaelRegan @Hannam79 If you include debt club had when Thai owner took over it's potentially nearer £80m of debt. Read tomorrow's Mercury

[Corky]

Any more figures to add on?

Anyone?

[ScouseFox]

Hahahaha, even I know £80,000,000 debt is not usually a positive thing.

Doomed. Pompey here we come.

[Jace]

[Jace]

Don't worry guys Michael Johnson's loan deal is almost over

[Captain...]

I think the first thing you have to bear in mind is that unless you are a fully trained accountant and you have experience of working with football clubs you don't really know what all this means, I am sure that all this money being tied up in pensions and loans is done for reasons that are beyond my understanding.

What is clear is that as a business we have more assets now then we did before, now a organisation that is not in it for the long run does not invest in assets like the training ground because they will not get that money back unless they sell the club, and they are not going to sell the club if it is laden with debts, if it all goes tits up and we go into administration the loan will not be paid back in full the administrators will come in and asset strip and try and settle debts that they can, but in some cases debts have been paid back as little as 10%, so the last thing they want is for administrators to come in.

Injecting money into the club in the form of loans is a sensible thing to do, they can't just pump money from the business into the club, it all needs to be accounted for and after the initial investment to buy the club you don't just chuck another 28 million without having anything to show for it, they are businessmen, not like Abramovich, this is a business to them not a vanity project, the rate of interest could be a little more favourable, but then you don't know how much money that 28 million could have generated from being kept in the hands of consortium.

I don't see any need to panic at the moment and, until someone who knows what they are talking about can explain to me why I should, I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

[Fox 4 Life]

Stringer is scaremongering.

Exact wording is:

"The parent company has confirmed that they will not seek repayment of these loans within 12 months of the date of signing the accounts if such payment would prejudice the ability of the company to settle it's other obligations when they fall due".

[Jace]

I think the first thing you have to bear in mind is that unless you are a fully trained accountant and you have experience of working with football clubs you don't really know what all this means, I am sure that all this money being tied up in pensions and loans is done for reasons that are beyond my understanding.

What is clear is that as a business we have more assets now then we did before, now a organisation that is not in it for the long run does not invest in assets like the training ground because they will not get that money back unless they sell the club, and they are not going to sell the club if it is laden with debts, if it all goes tits up and we go into administration the loan will not be paid back in full the administrators will come in and asset strip and try and settle debts that they can, but in some cases debts have been paid back as little as 10%, so the last thing they want is for administrators to come in.

Injecting money into the club in the form of loans is a sensible thing to do, they can't just pump money from the business into the club, it all needs to be accounted for and after the initial investment to buy the club you don't just chuck another 28 million without having anything to show for it, they are businessmen, not like Abramovich, this is a business to them not a vanity project, the rate of interest could be a little more favourable, but then you don't know how much money that 28 million could have generated from being kept in the hands of consortium.

I don't see any need to panic at the moment and, until someone who knows what they are talking about can explain to me why I should, I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

Don't worry I work for HM Revenue and Customs and my personal opinion is we are safe, then again I am wrong about everything

[Daggers]

I thought that as part of the deal done when we were in administration the freehold of the ground was transferred by the club to Teachers Pension Fund who were originally the Lender. The rent was to be based upon what division we were in with an option to buy back the ground.

That's my recollection too.

We still don't have a "credible ownership" because no one knows who owns the club.

*Bang!*

Exactly.

[easilee]

Just wondering if the Thai Consortium knew of the plans to oust NP the first time round.

If they did....ain't karma a bitch?

All that bullshit with Sousa and Sven just to end up where you started.

Hope I'm wrong but flashes of a certain undercover 'football clubs for sale' documentary are going through my mind.

[Libertine Dream]

All is as it seems if you just read the accounts. They're available for download for £1 on the Companies House website.

Are they available straight the way? I'd happily pay the pound to look at it, aswell as that of other football clubs.

[Happy Fox]

Just wondering if the Thai Consortium knew of the plans to oust NP the first time round.

If they did....ain't karma a bitch?

All that bullshit with Sousa and Sven just to end up where you started.

Hope I'm wrong but flashes of a certain undercover 'football clubs for sale' documentary are going through my mind.

If we trust Mandy to find the right people we are deluding ourselves, clearly our owners are not saints, and we will never find out their true identity.

[yorkie1999]

Oh, a racial slur. Charming!

Or maybe just a bit of spontaneous stereotyping banterous humour to lighten our depressing existence of being Leicester fans

[stourbridgefox]

Well he sold his beloved Portsmouth to that Gaydamek bloke who just asset stripped it so I wouldn't trust him to give a damn about who he sold to.

But...I'm not prepared to give up on the Raksriaksorns just yet. So far they have made mistakes but they don't seem to have done anything in bad faith.

Big numbers in debt don't look good when you think about it in terms of a household income, which is what most of us deal with. But even though I try to make sense of it without any specialist knowledge, the truth is I just have to accept and trust what the owners are doing.

So let's not get to upset just yet.

[ScouseFox]

Or maybe just a bit of spontaneous stereotyping banterous humour to lighten our depressing existence of being Leicester fans

Haha don't worry pal I know, only playing.

Being a Leicester fan's not that depressing! We're rich these days

[easilee]

If we trust Mandy to find the right people we are deluding ourselves, clearly our owners are not saints, and we will never find out their true identity.

No need for the edit mate. Knew what you meant. Never trusted that slimebag anyway.

[Happy Fox]

No need for the edit mate. Knew what you meant. Never trusted that slimebag anyway.

I am really concerned but their is nowt as fans we can do about it , just hoping we can get promoted asap

[yorkie1999]

Haha don't worry pal I know, only playing.

Being a Leicester fan's not that depressing! We're rich these days

Show me a rich man and I'll show you manic depression

[Wymsey]

The ground is mortgaged with Teachers Insurance, which is a US company as someone said.

Partly, they /built/designed the stadium, seats, etc, (which covers the fees for using these, which this firm is continuously waiting for the fee cost to of using their stadium).

However, the local council own the site where the stadium is based upon. (So, the fees of using that location are will therefore are (or will eventually be paid anyway) paid to them, until we possibly in the future buy the ground site.)

[Guest ttfn]

I haven't had access to a proper computer since this thread has been opened.

Right. Where to start?

Are they available straight the way? I'd happily pay the pound to look at it, aswell as that of other football clubs.

Yes; go to the Companies House website and they're online. Please, if you do this, read the words and not just the numbers.

Duh! you won't have any profits to pay corporation tax on

Which was exactly my point. What is the point then in having an elaborate loan structure which reduces your tax liability when you never have tax to pay in the first place? This is proven by the fact that the club has not recognised a deferred tax asset in respect of its tax losses for the year.

The 8% is purely there for the Thais' benefit.

I also feel that the following points are absolutely critical to people's understanding:

• Under any normal metric, the results are beyond alarming. The club has a gross margin of -50% for goodness sake. However, this is a football club, so it is "normal".
  
• The Thais won't be going anywhere for at least a year. If they do, somebody else will step in. The immediate future is relatively secure.
  
• The Thais have sunk more cash in than I ever thought they would. £54 million is ridiculous. When you consider that the club has probably made £25 million in turnover in the time they've been here, to sink in an additional £54 million in cash is unbelievable.
  
• Next year's results will be TERRIBLE. If you think this year's alarming, please don't read next year's.
  
• This year's results do not include stadium refurbishment or player expenditure made during the summer.
  
• When the above (stadium refurbishment and player expenditure) do hit the results, they won't all come at once. The cash impact of paying, say, £2.5 million for Jermaine Beckford is spread over the length of his contract for accounting purposes.