Fox 4 Life Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 This also comes down to simple debits and credits, the club cannot receive cash injections without a corresponding credit in the books, in this case it goes to intercompany. How they then class the debt is down to the owners but the bottom line is as long as they remain our owners the debt will just sit in the books. The big risk is that they pull out but after investing that much putting us in to admin is not in their interests as the main creditor.
jock2612 Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 My problem with the amount fo debt are the new fair play rules.I have said berore that with staff cost accounting 95.5% of revenue we could face fines or point deductions in the future.People on here have said a way round the issue is for ASI to re-sponser the club this is just not going to happen on top of all the other debt.On top of approx 48 million debt a furher 24.8 miilion not showing for this year ( in Observer ) .I think we have year at most.ASI is a only a holding company the debt is NOT connected to King Power s.
Fox 4 Life Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 My problem with the amount fo debt are the new fair play rules.I have said berore that with staff cost accounting 95.5% of revenue we could face fines or point deductions in the future.People on here have said a way round the issue is for ASI to re-sponser the club this is just not going to happen on top of all the other debt.On top of approx 48 million debt a furher 24.8 miilion not showing for this year ( in Observer ) .I think we have year at most.ASI is a only a holding company the debt is NOT connected to King Power s. That is a good point as the league have already said they will look at sponsorships very closely (if they are used as a means to meet the fair play rules). Man City are in a similar position with Etihad sponsoring them such huge amounts (company owned by their owners). IMO the biggest risk to us is this rather than the debt causing administration.
Mission Unlikely Promotion Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 im worried about the situation i have got to admit, however there is not alot we can do about it and to a certain degree we have to trust that the owners have a sensible long term plan that will make us a sustainable business in the future
Daggers Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 Not been on here for a few weeks but at last another person who isn't jumping for joy because the new owners have spent the equivalent of Wayne Rooney's annual salary on our team!! The financial implications are scary enough but the crass footballing decisions being made also have an impact - I also sense there is a judgement day coming - most on here worship them blindly though, so prepare to be shot at for dissenting in any way. Mange tout, mange tout my petit French grenouille. But most will ne listen pas until le disaster strikes. Until then je vais stick to le broadcast de stream sur mon computer.
jamesmilner Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 Key quote. Owners have pledged "continued financial support for the foreseeable future." how can anyone foresee our owners loyalty towards leicester city in the climate football is played in ? yes they are superb , brilliant , generous etc , etc , etc ! as much as i want to believe top and co are loyal to lcfc , i dont think as business men they are stupid .will they stay and takes us to the premier league and beyond , i dont know , no one does , even him . we are not finantially secure, being £46 mill in the red . key word to put your key quote at peril, FORESEEABLE . YOU NEED TO FIND OUT HOW LONG FORESEEABLE IS ? avb had a foreseeable future at chelsea friday !
Fox 4 Life Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 Key quote. Owners have pledged "continued financial support for the foreseeable future." how can anyone foresee our owners loyalty towards leicester city in the climate football is played in ? yes they are superb , brilliant , generous etc , etc , etc ! as much as i want to believe top and co are loyal to lcfc , i dont think as business men they are stupid .will they stay and takes us to the premier league and beyond , i dont know , no one does , even him . we are not finantially secure, being £46 mill in the red . key word to put your key quote at peril, FORESEEABLE . YOU NEED TO FIND OUT HOW LONG FORESEEABLE IS ? avb had a foreseeable future at chelsea friday ! Forseeable future in a set of accounts is at least 12 months from the signing date, in order for the auditor to sign off an unqualified opinion they have to get this confirmed.
Guest MattP Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 The only reason the club is in its current state is the willingness of the present owners to throw good money after bad, from an unknown source, for undisclosed reasons. It will continue for a finite length of time until their objective is met or they have given up on trying to achieve it and cut their loses. None of the consortium are born, supported or owe an allegiance to the club. When this happens it will leave the club with large debts to their consortium on a preferential basis and a financial need which outstrips income. I simply do not believe this is a recipe for long-term success or stability. History has shown that promotion is possible without investment on this scale, ignoring the fact that most of this money has been pissed away. I didn't believe the Thais offered a solution and I still don't; I believe they endanger the long term interests of the club and the longer people do nothing but turn a blind eye and pray for glory the worse the final result will be. Spot on. I'm absolutely astonished how these guys have got away with it. It's say alot about football fans nowdays that they are so desperate for premiership football they will hero worship a couple of guys prepared to risk the football club even existing just for a chance at promotion. This is going to have a messy ending and it won't be pretty, I could just about tolerate all the nonsense and rebranding of us into King Power football club on the assumption they were paying for all this, the fact they are not has serious ramifications on how our fans should be viewing who they are and what they are trying to achieve.
Happy Fox Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 I would have though our turnover would be well over a 100 % seeing as that 95.5% turnover was last year and the amount of debt accumulated would be £53.6m does this include the stadium?
berniethebolt Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 I'd say no need to panic at this stage. I suspect the consortium have loaned money to us at very favourable rates from their own businesses, unlike Man Utd which was financed by the Glazers on bank debts of 508M (or more)!! Although we are not in the same ball park it puts it into perspective. We will just rename the stadium again to the King Power 2 stadium and secure it with a 50m deal.... loan repaid.
Guest MattP Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 I'd say no need to panic at this stage. I suspect the consortium have loaned money to us at very favourable rates from their own businesses, unlike Man Utd which was financed by the Glazers on bank debts of 508M (or more)!! Although we are not in the same ball park it puts it into perspective. We will just rename the stadium again to the King Power 2 stadium and secure it with a 50m deal.... loan repaid. I'd hate to see your mortgage if you see these terms as a "favourable rate".
accessory Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 It's not favorable rates it's 8% interest Is that above or below market rate? If the latter then it is indeed favourable.
wellyfox Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 So they lend us money and we gotta pay it back plus intrest. They sponsor the shirts and ground at what cost. By the time it's repaid they wont have paid a penny for the club and had free advertising for x amount of years. Then they sell the club nice proffit and the only ones risking anything in all this is us the fans and weather we have a club in five years. So a big fat Thanks for Fvck all Top n co. Least we are getting to the truth now. richest club in the division at the start of the season the poorest at the end of the season.
wellyfox Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 Oh have we seen them since xmas anyway it wont matter. We wont see much of them now the truth is out.
Daggers Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 Is that above or below market rate? If the latter then it is indeed favourable. Currently Money Supermarket are quoting 4.2% as being the best rate out of the ten top savings accounts, Colin, so 8% is clearly taking the piss. The same site offers loans at 6.0% with M&S and 6.1% with Tesco. So, as you can see Colin, this money they're lending us is coming at quite a cost.
Fox 4 Life Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 Oh have we seen them since xmas anyway it wont matter. We wont see much of them now the truth is out. Im sure Top came up on the screen at the Cov game, unless it was a random Thai guy and I can now be accused of racism
berniethebolt Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 Forgive me if I'm wrong but the important thing is that the loans are from the consortium and not banks. The creditors are unlikely to call in their debts as they are the investors/owners and they see 8% as a fair return on their investment (however long that may be). You cant simply wipe this cash off Leicesters balance sheet so you make a loss. The only way to gain investment is via your own generated income (not enough) or finance it. However only a maniac will donate vast amounts of money from one company to another as "Gifts" as they become taxable very quickly, so it's done through a loan to ensure it is all handled legally else it will be seen as tax evasion and money laundering from a King Power perspective. Sorry to bang on interest rates but 8% vs Man Utds bank interest rate of 14.5% is not bad. Just trying to have a constructive debate.
Kitchandro Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 So what, people want me to hand my season ticket back because they 'have a feeling'? What the fvck am I going to do every Saturday?
Libertine Dream Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 Im sure Top came up on the screen at the Cov game, unless it was a random Thai guy and I can now be accused of racism He walked on the pitch at HT I'm disappointed I can't look at AFI accounts as I don't have Mastercard, might tell us something, unlikely but might do.
Vestan Pance Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 No I don't enjoy it because there is something we can do. I strongly disagree with the way the club is being run, I find the money being thrown away absolutely shameful. I am disgusted by the level of contracts being given to average players. I was sickened with the manner by which Pearson was got rid of. I believe the soul if the club was ripped out by Mandaric and pissed on by the Thais. I believe we have a right to know who is funding the club, where the money is coming from, how much there is and what lien will be placed on the club when they leave. And they will leave. And I believe that when you feel strongly about something you don't close your eyes and hope for the best, that you don't ignore the situation, that you do something. I returned my season ticket and have not attended a match since the third home match after Pearson's replacement exercise. I write to the club but I realise I'm pissing in the wind at the moment. My conscience is clear that I am not encouraging my club to rush to its financial doom - and I feel that a lot more of you should consider doing the same, but I know you won't. There'll be much wailing and gnashing when the shit hits the fan, and it will, so how will you feel then? The fruit machine analogy was excellent. Don't encourage them to gamble, demand the truth. Daggers, I feel exactly the same as you. I'd been a season ticket holder for many years but I have mainly stayed away since MM sold the club. The money that has been gambled so far on mediocrity is disgusting. Unless we get promoted very quickly I fear for the future of the club. I hope things turn out for the best, but I can't support the gamble that they are taking with our Club.
ScouseFox Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 So what, people want me to hand my season ticket back because they 'have a feeling'? What the fvck am I going to do every Saturday? Sit at home and worry. Or wait for us to go bust. Or both.
Tommy G Posted 5 March 2012 Posted 5 March 2012 Going to download the accounts tomorrow at work and read what PWC have to say, if they are still the auditors. Forseeable future part - has to be 12 months into the future of continued support, so no need to get the razor blades out yet. I dont think its a case either of Top sitting there and saying ''Yes, we will support LCFC for the next 12 months'' there will have to be satifactory evidence i.e more than likely detailed financial budgets for the next 12 months and probably as part of the audit review/money laundering review they will do a detailed analysis review of how successful the other companies he owns are doing aswell to ensure that when he says he can support financially, that it isn't just hot air. I know since the Enron scandal people get all pissy about auditors reports and also critical about the Audit market in this country (especially the big 4 dominance) but I'd be pretty assured that to have an unqualified opinion PWC will have covered their backs. The last thing they need is dodgy publicity for pushing a set of accounts through, I'd certainly be more worried if you were a Cov fan - as of the weekend their accounts hadn't even been filed. I think there could be another 10 pages of what ifs, people speculating debits and credits, interest rates, owners being at the game, the wage bill etc etc but there is seriously nothing anyone can do regardless of your opinion on the matter. I'm sure the number bods at the club are well aware of the FFP rules and if they aren't they will probably get sacked. There will be forecasts prepared on all different scenarios and outcomes. we aren't running a Greengrocers here with a red cash book, its a serious up scale from something like that and I honestly think we arent flying blind. The end
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