Defensive myth.....!

[chris_lcfc_85]

We have 5 x good central defenders at this level (Bamba, Morgan, Mills, Tunchev, St Ledger) yet we are conceding for fun.... HOW???

Last season we had Bruma, Vitor, Mee, Bamba and also conceded goals!!! Bruma and Vitor are highly promising players so why did we concede for fun!!??

Yet arguably our worst options came when we got into the playoffs (Brown/Morrison/Hobbs), doesnt make any sense!!

[Mark_w]

Maybe having five players competing for two spots isn't as good as Sven would have liked us to believe, maybe some of our defenders don't have the right attitude or maybe they genuinlly aren't good enough. I'd suggest that Bamba doesn't really inspire confidence in his team mates (He did well, but I don't remember a regularly good CB partnership involving him since he has been at the club), Mills must have an attitude problem or be doing something wrong behind the scenes surely if we don't have any intention of playing him, and if what was said about St. Ledger in January was true I wouldn't be surprised if he moved on, if he is going to throw his toys out the pram every time he is dropped (And I'm not saying he will) then keeping him could be counter intuitive. Give Nigel the summer he'll work it out even if it does mean reverting back to players we've never heard of, who don't cost a fortune, which would of course be terrible.

[Guest Col city fan]

We are poor at defending AS A TEAM....

Thrac is quite right... Attack as a team, defend as a team.

The attacking players provide the back five with not enough support so that they are put under too much pressure, too much of the time.

We need a tougher, more physically mobile midfield and the strikers tracking back more when needed. Also, to hold the ball up and to keep it when needed.

You can pick any of the defenders and accuse them of being the weak link. But youd be missing the point IMO.... They don't get enough support, cos we don't defend well enough collectively.

[Haydos]

We have 5 x good central defenders at this level (Bamba, Morgan, Mills, Tunchev, St Ledger) yet we are conceding for fun.... HOW???

Last season we had Bruma, Vitor, Mee, Bamba and also conceded goals!!! Bruma and Vitor are highly promising players so why did we concede for fun!!??

Yet arguably our worst options came when we got into the playoffs (Brown/Morrison/Hobbs), doesnt make any sense!!

They're all new players. It's cliche but they will take time to gel.

This isn't like signing 1 or 2 new players that need to learn to fit in either. This is a whole new defence, including 4 centre backs, that don't know each other. You can accommodate one or two new signings in with a few hitches...but none of these players have a system, a routine, a way of thinking to fit into. They have come in and had to develop their own.

This is the reason I believe it still isn't working. We brought in Morgan recently as well, which is yet another new face to add to the non-identity that our team currently had. For me this is also all the more reason to keep Pearson on and have him develop a team. We need a 'normal' if we're going to sign new players, and this doesn't mean giving them 6 months before discarding them. I honestly believe we have a decent enough defence and that they need to develop partnerships.

[seenitall]

Nige needs to get Mills back. Morgan was a mistake

[FrankieADZ]

Nige needs to get Mills back. Morgan was a mistake

a mistake....thats harsh....imo i think hes been doing pretty well....just as good as Mills..if not better.

Personally I think Peltier has been off form as of late....tho i wouldnt go calling his signing a "mistake"

[Mark_w]

Nige needs to get Mills back. Morgan was a mistake

Did I imagine all the praise Morgan was getting after Birmingham, the '#bigwesfacts' and his pretty good start so far. We lose to Chelsea! and Blackpool who are known for attacking sides from the word go, and suddenly Wes is the worst defender at the club? I don't think enough people want Wes to succeed on here, as soon as he has one bad game, no matter how well he did previously to that, he's a Forest agent.

[Guest MattP]

Morgan isnt that good and been plagued by fitness problems.

Mills is weighed down by his price tag and has acted the fool.

SSL has acted the fool everywhere he has ever been.

Bamba sometimes isn't even in shot on the TV when the opposition have scored.

Tunchev is finished.

That's the start of your problems.

[cc_star]

5 good defenders then lists Bamba?

Problem is in the mix, Mills is OK but was made captain, Pearson made him undroppable & he performed poorly & is too easily dominated.

SSL seemed to be signed on the understanding he plays every game else he goes off crying to Irish papers or throws his toys out the pram & causes a stink in the background

Tunchev seems good at a lower level than we currently require

Morgan is a good defender been out of sorts for the past 2 games though, not sure why.

Bamba is many things almost all of them positive, but defensive player he isn't.

The mix isn't right of the team. Wellens is most effective in opposition half slotting balls down channels or playing the widemen in, Drinkwater will grow into that role, Danns is a box-to-box dynamo but I think we need a player who can break opposition play up, someone of Lee Bowyer's skillet but obviously not him

All comes back to the wrong balance which will take the summer to correct IMO

[cc_star]

Morgan isnt that good and been plagued by fitness problems.

Mills is weighed down by his price tag and has acted the fool.

SSL has acted the fool everywhere he has ever been.

Bamba sometimes isn't even in shot on the TV when the opposition have scored.

Tunchev is finished.

That's the start of your problems.

]

It's funny because it's true

[seenitall]

Stil think Mills is the best defender at the club, Morgan looks slow and SSL still seems to have an attitude problem (pissed at Cheltenham). Best record of the season so far is Mills and Bamba, who Nige has hardly played together. Like I say, time for Nige to be a big man and play the best team

[Guest MattP]

Stil think Mills is the best defender at the club, Morgan looks slow and SSL still seems to have an attitude problem (pissed at Cheltenham). Best record of the season so far is Mills and Bamba, who Nige has hardly played together. Like I say, time for Nige to be a big man and play the best team

surely it would be Mills and St Ledger?

[davieG]

When you're playing 442 with two creative (subjective I know) defensively lightweight wingers, Dyer/Gallagher/Marshall both your midfielders need to be hardnosed, competitive and with quality passing/retention skill and even then one of them needs to have some creativity. We don't have that.

Also we do not consistently defend from the front and through midfield to protect the defence, sometimes we do plenty of times we don't.

When our full backs go forward the wingers are not covering as well as they should.

The back four is continually changing and not always as a result of injury it's also not very well organised with big gaps often left between the two CBs and one of the full backs.

We give the ball away far to often, even from our own throw ins so many times the opposition end up with the ball all these things contribute to us losing control of games and putting the defence under pressure, it's simply not good enough

We just not working together as a cohesive 11 man unit whether that's down to Pearson, the change in managers or just needs more time I don't know but until we get that right we're always going to be inconsistent

[seenitall]

I agree tha they work well together, either works better for me than current pairings, way too many goals conceded

[Guest Col city fan]

When you're playing 442 with two creative (subjective I know) defensively lightweight wingers, Dyer/Gallagher/Marshall both your midfielders need to be hardnosed, competitive and with quality passing/retention skill and even then one of them needs to have some creativity. We don't have that.

Also we do not consistently defend from the front and through midfield to protect the defence, sometimes we do plenty of times we don't.

When our full backs go forward the wingers are not covering as well as they should.

The back four is continually changing and not always as a result of injury it's also not very well organised with big gaps often left between the two CBs and one of the full backs.

We give the ball away far to often, even from our own throw ins so many times the opposition end up with the ball all these things contribute to us losing control of games and putting the defence under pressure, it's simply not good enough

We just not working together as a cohesive 11 man unit whether that's down to Pearson, the change in managers or just needs more time I don't know but until we get that right we're always going to be inconsistent

Absolutely spot on

This is the problem IMO.

And I tried to say this a couple of months ago.

We don't keep the ball well enough, starting with the front blokes.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

We are poor at defending AS A TEAM....

Thrac is quite right... Attack as a team, defend as a team.

The attacking players provide the back five with not enough support so that they are put under too much pressure, too much of the time.

We need a tougher, more physically mobile midfield and the strikers tracking back more when needed. Also, to hold the ball up and to keep it when needed.

You can pick any of the defenders and accuse them of being the weak link. But youd be missing the point IMO.... They don't get enough support, cos we don't defend well enough collectively.

This basically, CCF is right again, we do NOT defend well as a team, in fact we look like a pub team defensively

[TrentFox]

We are conceding goals at an alarming rate. Yet I honestly believe our squad, (squad, not 'defenders', as everybody is responsible for defending), are better man-for-man than most squads in this league. I don't think there is a great difference player for player within our squad in terms of effectiveness. Each player offers something different and something good. If you buy that, (big 'if' for some of you, I know), then what's left to explain the problem ? Our manager and coaches are certainly on a par with anything else we face each week or anyone else that would have taken on the job. We can change manager and coaches every three weeks if we want, but they are all going to do more or less the same things in training, spot more or less the same areas to improve, use more or less the same information / technology / science etc etc etc. So what's left ? NP is our manager and has to have a full season next year if we are to have any chance of building something. However, what I find troubling is the seeming inflexibility. For me, what has made me frown has been the resistance to changing shape. We seem to be too easy to play through. We seem to be strongest (don't laugh) at centre-half and centre-mid. Yet we won't try a system that utilises that. For reasons I don't know, he did this for 45 at Palace. How it went is almost irrelevant in such a short time-frame. But I just look at our squad and think why aren't we trying that now ? None of our strikers are good enough to play up front in isolation. We've generally looked ineffective when that has happened. Put all of this together and I just keep thinking 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 ... whichever way you want to call it. Again, for me, we are weakest presently out wide in midfield with options of Gally, Lloydy and young Marshall. Yet we employ a system where two of those players usually have to play ! Just to dovetail my two points together, I've been fortunate enough to work with International sportsmen. The one thing they will tell you is that at elite level, there is virtually no difference in coaching, gene pool, nutrition etc. The BIGGEST difference in the attitude and belief of those players as they walk on the pitch. There is a bit of me that just wonders if our guys actually have faith in the system we employ ? I have no idea if that is true, but I know that my heart sinks 1 hour before kick-off when I see the same faces in the same positions on the team-sheet. As somebody once said ... the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect it to deliver different results. Off to take some happy tablets now.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

When you're playing 442 with two creative (subjective I know) defensively lightweight wingers, Dyer/Gallagher/Marshall both your midfielders need to be hardnosed, competitive and with quality passing/retention skill and even then one of them needs to have some creativity. We don't have that.

Also we do not consistently defend from the front and through midfield to protect the defence, sometimes we do plenty of times we don't.

When our full backs go forward the wingers are not covering as well as they should.

The back four is continually changing and not always as a result of injury it's also not very well organised with big gaps often left between the two CBs and one of the full backs.

We give the ball away far to often, even from our own throw ins so many times the opposition end up with the ball all these things contribute to us losing control of games and putting the defence under pressure, it's simply not good enough

We just not working together as a cohesive 11 man unit whether that's down to Pearson, the change in managers or just needs more time I don't know but until we get that right we're always going to be inconsistent

Well said

[Lobsterboyuk]

I think we just need more time, poor passing, failing to cover runs, to a degree these weaknesses improve as the players understand each other better. I think it takes a good number of months to get there given the huge changes in personnel on and off the field.

I would like to see more ball winning from midfield though, we are getting ripped to shreds on the counter attack at the moment. Only so much you can expect from defense.

Too many long balls at times IMO, need to play from the back more and not then immediately gift possession when everybody's pushed forward and then can run at us nearly 1 on 1

[Babylon]

Best record of the season so far is Mills and Bamba, who Nige has hardly played together.

He was, and we were still in the same league position, if not worse.

Then Bamba went to the African nations for a couple of months and Mills threw a wobbly about something or other.

[davieG]

I think we just need more time, poor passing, failing to cover runs, to a degree these weaknesses improve as the players understand each other better. I think it takes a good number of months to get there given the huge changes in personnel on and off the field.

I would like to see more ball winning from midfield though, we are getting ripped to shreds on the counter attack at the moment. Only so much you can expect from defense.

Too many long balls at times IMO, need to play from the back more and not then immediately gift possession when everybody's pushed forward and then can run at us nearly 1 on 1

Overhit or underhit passes of which we're particularly guilty of has nothing to do with understanding each other but, yes we're still a long way from a consistent cohesive unit.

Long balls are ok if they're not at head height or above because we really have no one up front or on the wing (especially Gallagher) who's good with their head.

[GLC]

Poor defending as a team, putting Bamba and Morgan at the CB and St Ledger at RB wasn't a good idea against Chelsea,

We give the ball away to easily and we pay for it. we need to defend better as a team and not blame individuals.

Also chopping and changing the defence is causing us problems

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Defend well as a team, attack as a team, play better as a team

[AKCJ]

When you're playing 442 with two creative (subjective I know) defensively lightweight wingers, Dyer/Gallagher/Marshall both your midfielders need to be hardnosed, competitive and with quality passing/retention skill and even then one of them needs to have some creativity. We don't have that.

Also we do not consistently defend from the front and through midfield to protect the defence, sometimes we do plenty of times we don't.

When our full backs go forward the wingers are not covering as well as they should.

The back four is continually changing and not always as a result of injury it's also not very well organised with big gaps often left between the two CBs and one of the full backs.

We give the ball away far to often, even from our own throw ins so many times the opposition end up with the ball all these things contribute to us losing control of games and putting the defence under pressure, it's simply not good enough

We just not working together as a cohesive 11 man unit whether that's down to Pearson, the change in managers or just needs more time I don't know but until we get that right we're always going to be inconsistent

Spot on.

We need someone along the lines of a Lee Cattermole, a Joey Barton, a Nigel de Jong, a Cheik Tiote.

We're too nice in the middle for my liking. We need the sort of plaer who will get booked most games, but will protect the back four and give us 150% effort each game.

[crisp packet]

When we lose the ball our SHAPE is shocking!!!!

The MIDFIELD is the problem!!! ( and a target man)

Over the last 3 years we have had a massive influx of a players all over the squad in all areas of the pitch. In the summer we was moaning about the amount of central midfielders we had/ was buying?? But for one reason or another we still have reverted back too our old faithfuls ....

Who sorry simply ain't good enough no more collectively !

We need two DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDERS and a REAL TARGET MAN , when a say target man I mean some one who 1st and second touch wants too hold the ball up.Win headers, free kicks, throw ins etc to generally take the pressure off the defensive unit .

Sven failed to get these in the Summer as did Pearson in jan or on loan.

I was happy with the shape of our midfield against cov 1st game , fernandez , danns and king .

What it lacked was 3 players with genuine pace up front in the three . Which I feel we now have!

But no one to take the pressure off I.e a target man...

I feel beckford and nugent try to hold the ball up but we are asking them too do some thing which is not there game. (All though looking hot at mo!!!)

I remember Liverpool buying SVC from florist and asking him to do what an old fashioned type English centre forward does, it wasn't his game ...

Hence the spice boys failed ! To later bring in our Heskey , then Crouch etc ..

square pegs round holes..

Same old faces , same old problems !!

NO OPTIONS???

After reading it back some wingers too!!

De Ja vu?