Should Horse Racing be banned?

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Was gonna use the Black Cavier point as well mate!!

You could sell out the MCG watching her run around, we got our Ascot tickets the other week I'm just praying she comes over and everything goes to plan.

That's the plan with her, Ortensia who won at Meydan on WC night, Foxwedge (above average sprinter).

Black Caviar may not go over undefeated as there is a potenial $5 million match race being proposed between her and Atlantic Jewel who has been every bit as impressive and is also undefeated (6 from 6) and the times are comparabile with BC a length or length and a half in front.

[AoWW]

I think they need to lower the fences particularly those with a greater drop on the other side of the fence. These so called "drop fences" are lower on the landing side presumably to catch the horse out and make the spectacle more exciting.

to quote the wiki article on show jumping:

"Many riders have fallen badly on drop fences if the horse swerves unexpectedly. Jumping drop fences places a good deal of stress on the horse's legs, and therefore practice should be kept to a minimum. To help minimise the concussion on the horse's legs, the rider should encourage it to jump the fence as conservatively as possible, with little bascule or speed, using just enough power to safely clear the log before dropping down."

Now no-one is riding their horse "conservatively" in the national, and both horses that had to be put down fell at the same drop fence. I don't have a problem with horse racing in general but this is an obstacle that by design is highly likely to cause a horse to suffer a leg break, which is a fatal injury for a horse. To me that is unnecessarily cruel, not to mention dangerous for the jockeys.

I think you need to appreciate the differences between show jumping, national hunt and eventing. Drop fences rarely feature in show-jumping (the Hickstead bank being a notable exception, and even there the drop is some distance after the fence, jumped correctly the horse will land before the drop). The wiki article (never the most reliable source!) is about different types of jumping obstacle, not specifically show-jumping as you state. Eventers jump drop fences regularly and accidents (to horses) are no more prevalent at these type of fences than any others.

Drop fences are not designed to 'catch the horse out and make the spectacle more exciting'. They're an integral part of national hunt, point to points and eventing because these are traditionally based on hunting 'across country' and courses are designed to reflect natural terrain which, inevitable, will have drops, ditches, water-crossings, hills, etc, etc and uses solid obstacles.

Show jumping, by comparison, is on neatly manicured lawns / artificial surfaces that are generally flat and the objective is to jump accurately over obstacles that easily fall so a high degree of precision and accuracy is needed. Oh, and they will only be one horse in the arena, not 40! To start to draw comparisons between this and national hunt is, quite frankly as laughable as trying to compare F1 with mountain-biking.

As for my own views on horse racing, no, it shouldn't be banned. I deeply regret the loss of horses lives as a result but the amount of 'sensationalism', 'band-wagon jumping' and general misinformation is staggering.

Personally, I feel that, yes, too many equine deaths occur during the Grand National. In my opinion there should be fewer runners and entry-criteria should be more stringent, and, as Matt suggested, move it earlier in the season so the ground would be less-fast, however you'll never make it risk-free and nor should it be. Start making major alterations to the fences, length of course, terrain, etc and it'll become so 'sanitised' there'd really be little point.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Any physical excercise can cause a heart attack. Muamba could have been on his treadmill in his home when he suffered his attack.

A horse being forced to jump over a big hedge has quite a high risk of injury. But you know what, sod it, they're only animals

Define forced? Have you ever seen a horse lose it's jockey in a steeple chase and yet still run ahead and jump all the fences..........as that's what they do who is forcing them then? The Jockey who isn't riding her.

[Guest MattP]

That's the plan with her, Ortensia who won at Meydan on WC night, Foxwedge (above average sprinter).

Black Caviar may not go over undefeated as there is a potenial $5 million match race being proposed between her and Atlantic Jewel who has been every bit as impressive and is also undefeated (6 from 6) and the times are comparabile with BC a length or length and a half in front.

Got up at 5am on fri morning to watch Atlantic Jewel, was a brilliant performance. Still don't see Black Cavier being beat over anything less than 800 though, maybe even 1000.

Same the Frankel match could never have materialised, would have been the most publicised horse racing ever, someone in Japan even put 25million up for the winner.

[AoWW]

Any physical excercise can cause a heart attack. Muamba could have been on his treadmill in his home when he suffered his attack.

A horse being forced to jump over a big hedge has quite a high risk of injury. But you know what, sod it, they're only animals

Dear me. You do realise that every single day, up and down the country and across the world, many horses are jumping big hedges (not just in the Grand National!). Very few of them injure themselves in the process and hardly any of them will have been physically 'forced' to do so.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Got up at 5am on fri morning to watch Atlantic Jewel, was a brilliant performance. Still don't see Black Cavier being beat over anything less than 800 though, maybe even 1000.

Same the Frankel match could never have materialised, would have been the most publicised horse racing ever, someone in Japan even put 25million up for the winner.

Our shortest races are 1000m, BC has won betweeen 1000-1400. Would love to see them race against each other, both seem to win with relative ease. Atlantic Jewel will improve due to the age.

The thing both of them do is bring people to the races and both beat good quality horses with relative ease.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Got up at 5am on fri morning to watch Atlantic Jewel, was a brilliant performance. Still don't see Black Cavier being beat over anything less than 800 though, maybe even 1000.

Same the Frankel match could never have materialised, would have been the most publicised horse racing ever, someone in Japan even put 25million up for the winner.

Our shortest races are 1000m, BC has won betweeen 1000-1400. Would love to see them race against each other, both seem to win with relative ease. Atlantic Jewel will improve due to the age.

The thing both of them do is bring people to the races and both beat good quality horses with relative ease.

[Guest MattP]

Meant 8f-10f mate, been a long week.

Think AJ has a chance v BC over a mile?

[Daggers]

Brilliant. Completely excelled yourself again.

On a phone at 11pm on a train, not really the first thing on my mind. Good task of arguing the points put forward.

I've no idea why you feel I need to know where you are or what isn't the first thing on your mind...but if you are going to start lobbing around accusations of people being poorly educated then doing it in a post containing piss-poor grammar and spelling just marks you out to be a sodding great hypocrite. And if that gets on your tits as it appears to have done then maybe you should choose your words more carefully in future.

Arguing what points put forward? Your post is incoherent for the most part: I made no mention of betting shops, I've no idea to which countryside festival you are referring as there are an amazing number of them around the world - are you talking about the one where herdsmen come across from all corners of Mongolia? Which leaves your final paragraph containing two rhetorical questions and not an argument open for debate; I've no idea where your sought-after outcry is but I could hazard a good guess - and I suspect so could you - because it seems to be bloody obvious.

But most importantly, if you'd looked at the thread as a whole, and my posts therein, you'd have noticed that I wasn't taking the subject entirely seriously. I'd have thought that much was blindingly obvious to an educated man such as yourself.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Meant 8f-10f mate, been a long week.

Think AJ has a chance v BC over a mile?

The connections of BC or more to that point Peter Moody wont risk BC over a mile. He almost didn't race her over 1400m. Personally i think BC could run over 2000m if she was preped for it as she just relaxs so well.

[Guest MattP]

The connections of BC or more to that point Peter Moody wont risk BC over a mile. He almost didn't race her over 1400m. Personally i think BC could run over 2000m if she was preped for it as she just relaxs so well.

Not sure about going over anything over 1600, I didn't like it when they ran So You Think in the Melbourne Cup and I firmly believe that race took a lot out of his European career extending him.

Just can't wait to see her over here to be honest, don't generally like the flat or Ascot but it's a once in a lifetime watch.

[Guest MattP]

I've no idea why you feel I need to know where you are or what isn't the first thing on your mind...but if you are going to start lobbing around accusations of people being poorly educated then doing it in a post containing piss-poor grammar and spelling just marks you out to be a sodding great hypocrite. And if that gets on your tits as it appears to have done then maybe you should choose your words more carefully in future.

Arguing what points put forward? Your post is incoherent for the most part: I made no mention of betting shops, I've no idea to which countryside festival you are referring as there are an amazing number of them around the world - are you talking about the one where herdsmen come across from all corners of Mongolia? Which leaves your final paragraph containing two rhetorical questions and not an argument open for debate; I've no idea where your sought-after outcry is but I could hazard a good guess - and I suspect so could you - because it seems to be bloody obvious.

But most importantly, if you'd looked at the thread as a whole, and my posts therein, you'd have noticed that I wasn't taking the subject entirely seriously. I'd have thought that much was blindingly obvious to an educated man such as yourself.

If you use a phone to use the web your grammar isn't going to be perfect, it's a nightmare just typing it out most of the time.

I accused you of being poorly educated on racing, not in general, a point which I'm sure is correct as in a racing conversation on national hunt you didn't know what meeting I was referring to on mentioning a countryside meet, im sure there are many but I doubt Mongolia's festival is generally considered as the one people mean when discussing Britain and Ireland's national hunt season.

I realised you were taking the piss after, I just snapped, I've had far too much of this over the last week and anything can set you off, there is nothing like this sport to get morons talking about a thing they have absolutely no clue about.

The only good thing is they'll be a few more animal aid wankers to slap around this time next year.

[ozleicester]

Possible but made no difference this year...Ideally move it out of April so the ground isnt too fast, possibly raise the entry point of the handicapper mark as well as half the field quite simply are not good enough to jump these fences.

Another misconception the public has is the national involves the best horses in Britain, 95pc of the entries are grade 3 handicappers, usually no decent horse would be risked in a race like this, Syncronised was a massive exception and error.

So we send out the slow, incapable, untalented and worthless horses to this race... that will keep the mindless masses entertained for a few minutes.

[ozleicester]

surely this is all you need

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Haha you see all the ferals who haven't showered for weeks on ends in the Tab betting on them at 9am because the real racing hasn't started yet.

[ozleicester]

Haha you see all the ferals who haven't showered for weeks on ends in the Tab betting on them at 9am because the real racing hasn't started yet.

what are you doing in there at 9am

[SOCCERROO FOX]

what are you doing in there at 9am

I'm an earlier riser so put my footy bets on in the morning before it's busy.

[Bert]

I've got favourite jockeys, Tony McCoy being my favourite.

[Guest MattP]

I've got favourite jockeys, Tony McCoy being my favourite.

Met him this week, lovely guy will tweet you the photo.

[Guest MattP]

So we send out the slow, incapable, untalented and worthless horses to this race... that will keep the mindless masses entertained for a few minutes.

I believe the BHB mark should be around class 2 standard minimum for entry.

No racehorse is slow incapable and worthless.

[Zingari]

I believe the BHB mark should be around class 2 standard minimum for entry.

No racehorse is slow incapable and worthless.

The ones I bet on seem to do a good impression.

[Bert]

Met him this week, lovely guy will tweet you the photo.

Cool. Got his autobiogrphy, not got round to reading it yet.

[Kitchandro]

Get off the bandwagon! Two accidental deaths, one from an unseated horse and your calling for it to be banned!?!?

Horse racing is more popular now then ever before, record attendances last season, record attendances at Cheltenham & Aintree and more people watched last years National than the FA Cup final!

As much as I love the National, I hate the fact that it brings out all the do gooders who couldn't care less for the other 364 days a year!

This.

You can always seperate the childish idiots from the rest of society when they call for horse racing to be banned after every Grand National.

By the way on what planet is it going to be banned?

[adam1]

For the spectators, it basically is. Why are there point-to-points' all over the countryside? Because it's great to watch? Pfft, no. Because it's full of middle class people who own ride horses and have the money to gamble.

What's wrong with jumping on the bandwagon of some things? (I'm not saying I agree btw, I can just see why people who don't like to see animals treated like that feel the way they do).

I just don't buy that the number 1 reason horse racing exists is anything but gambling. There's a reason they keep you updated on all the odds on the race programmes, you don't get that on football focus or when you watch the athletics.

I go to lots of Point to Point meetings and they often attract large crowds, well into the thousands. Alot of people don't gamble. They go to watch the racing. And they are not all middle class/upper class.

As to Horse Racing existing for gambling. Complete and utter bull shit. Dubai. Gambling is banned and yet horse racing is popular.

Ban horse racing. Then there will be calls to ban fishing. Calls to ban shooting. So **** you (and all of those who have said horse racing be banned). I'm not having my hobbies ruined by a bunch of idiots who just jump on the bandwagon. You can all do me a favour and enter yourself into the Darwin Awards.

[Bert]

Just seems the people calling for it to be banned are the ones that know little about the sport.