The grumpy Englishman thread

[acooling08]

Post here if, like me, you want to moan about Euro games being marred by diving, playacting, and endless very soft decisions.

Seen a few embarrassing moments already today but thought I'd leave it. But then seeing Nani penalised for a simple shoulder to shoulder with a big German bloke, followed by a couple of free kicks for 'pushing', I just couldn't resist complaining.

If you like the prancy, dancy, fall-over football then that's fine, but I reserve the right to moan about it. Just hope to see none of it by the French (or English) on Monday!

[Finnegan]

Nani barged in to Badstuber with no effort to win the ball, it was a foul. There's been no handbags at all so far and Germans do far less of that than the English.

No idea what you're on about tbh, even Ronaldo has been reasonably tolerable.

[Saxondale]

I'll save my moaning for when our bunch of overrated twats are playing.

[Guest Bilo]

[EnderbyFox]

I'll save my moaning for when our bunch of overrated twats are playing.

[acooling08]

Nani barged in to Badstuber with no effort to win the ball, it was a foul. There's been no handbags at all so far and Germans do far less of that than the English.

No idea what you're on about tbh, even Ronaldo has been reasonably tolerable.

Shoulder charges aren't fouls.

Admittedly mate there hasn't been any major diving for big decisions yet, it's just the niggling little pushes and dives which break the game up too much. It's what annoys me the most about non-English football.

And in Bilo's picture, we have an old-fashioned English player falling foul of a one of a very small group of play-acting English players.

[Kitchandro]

Muller was rolling around to waste time at the end, as usual. He is an unlikeable fellow.

I blame the ref for that match, was blowing up for everything in the first half especially.

On the subject of shoulder barges, it seems most people generally ignore that you have to be in a 50/50 situation or in control of the ball for it to be one, if the bloke's in front of you and closer to the ball and you barge into them, it's a foul.

[lavrentis]

[FoxyPV]

The English captain is fond of a dive. Is he part of this small group?

[Father Ted]

4-2-3-1 vs 4-2-3-1 is incredibly dull and frustrating.

[EcclesallOwl]

Nani barged in to Badstuber with no effort to win the ball, it was a foul. There's been no handbags at all so far and Germans do far less of that than the English.

No idea what you're on about tbh, even Ronaldo has been reasonably tolerable.

No chance was that a foul, Nani went shoulder to shoulder with him and Badstuber wasn't strong enough to knock Nani out of the way.

[GLC]

Neuers 'dive' in the first half was pretty embarresing, barley got touched and he jumped up like he had a rat up his arse

[marbelladave]

Moden football eh.......

The reality is that FIFA and UEFA have tinkered with the rules to virtually outlaw tackling, to the extent that, at this level at least virtually any tackle that involves physical contact is automatically a foul, and in many cases a card too.

This makes it virtually impossible to get the ball back from any 'technically' decent side who can keep possession for as long as they want. There is no point in competing for the ball in midfield as you will either make tackles and give away too many fouls and end up with 9 men or not make tackles and let the opposition pass through you.

The only way to combat this is to do what Chelsea did in the Champions League and what Greece and Denmark have done so far in this competition. Simply fall back and concede 80% of the pitch to the team in possession, then wait for them to lose the ball trying to break into a packed area and try and hit them on the break.

Boring it might be, but until tackling is reintroduced into the game, get used to it.....

[davieG]

Moden football eh.......

The reality is that FIFA and UEFA have tinkered with the rules to virtually outlaw tackling, to the extent that, at this level at least virtually any tackle that involves physical contact is automatically a foul, and in many cases a card too.

This makes it virtually impossible to get the ball back from any 'technically' decent side who can keep possession for as long as they want. There is no point in competing for the ball in midfield as you will either make tackles and give away too many fouls and end up with 9 men or not make tackles and let the opposition pass through you.

The only way to combat this is to do what Chelsea did in the Champions League and what Greece and Denmark have done so far in this competition. Simply fall back and concede 80% of the pitch to the team in possession, then wait for them to lose the ball trying to break into a packed area and try and hit them on the break.

Boring it might be, but until tackling is reintroduced into the game, get used to it.....

How many times have I said that when people say Andy King doesn't tackle, whilst Wellens continues to make rash tackles and give away free kicks.

Not an attempt to high-jack the topic with a King v's Wellens moan just posted out of frustration that people can't see that the game has changed.

Unlike obstruction which seems to be virtually ignored.

[Finnegan]

No chance was that a foul, Nani went shoulder to shoulder with him and Badstuber wasn't strong enough to knock Nani out of the way.

Errr... what? Nani came steaming in and crashed him off the ball with his entire body weight.

That's not a 50/50 bit of shoulder barging, that's a push - plain and simple. It doesn't matter what part of your body you use, you can't horrendously maim the opposition and then go "it's okay, ref, I used my shoulder."

It was a foul.

[MPH]

Errr... what? Nani came steaming in and crashed him off the ball with his entire body weight.

That's not a 50/50 bit of shoulder barging, that's a push - plain and simple. It doesn't matter what part of your body you use, you can't horrendously maim the opposition and then go "it's okay, ref, I used my shoulder."

It was a foul.

Err actually it does.

(aka "Fair Charging"). A type of "tackle" which can be legally used to try to "win" (i.e., gain possession of) the ball. To be legal, it: (a) cannot take place from behind (b) is only permitted within playing distance (i.e., 3 feet) of the ball © cannot be violent or dangerous (d) must be intended to win the ball & not just to knock down the opponent (e) must be shoulder to shoulder (not to the opponents chest or back) with the arms (especially elbows) close to the body (f) the player must have at least one foot on the ground (i.e., he can't leap).

[marbelladave]

How many times have I said that when people say Andy King doesn't tackle, whilst Wellens continues to make rash tackles and give away free kicks.

Not an attempt to high-jack the topic with a King v's Wellens moan just posted out of frustration that people can't see that the game has changed.

Unlike obstruction which seems to be virtually ignored.

King does tackle, but does so standing up and usually in and around our penalty area, he rarely commits himself in midfield and rightly so given the modern game.

Errr... what? Nani came steaming in and crashed him off the ball with his entire body weight.

That's not a 50/50 bit of shoulder barging, that's a push - plain and simple. It doesn't matter what part of your body you use, you can't horrendously maim the opposition and then go "it's okay, ref, I used my shoulder."

It was a foul.

It was a robust 'old fashioned' shoulder charge, in the modern game that is considered to be violent or dangerous so a free kick and a card.

Might as well be playing bloody netball....

[Jaspa]

That Nani shoulder was fair and robust, shoulder to shoulder and the German actually made the first move

Germany look like theyre still abit shaken from the Champo League Final, and hate most of their players and ridiculous staff

Really dont see them as major contenders atm

[Finnegan]

Err actually it does.

Uhm. Did you read your own quote?

Nani, arguably, did come from behind him, was trying to push him over more than really win the ball given where it was and, whilst a bit of a stretch, a contemporary referee might often have called it violent.

You've basically just backed up everything I said. Just because you use your shoulder it doesn't mean it can't be a foul, there are other criteria.

I'm not suggesting Nani should have been carded or that it was a particularly bad foul but it wasn't exactly just a bit of physical contest with the side of the body really either, was it? It was a full on shunt at pace.

[acooling08]

What about Neurs ridiculous playacting when he was barely touched? Lawrenson was bang on in commentary 'Of course he's alright now, the player's been booked'.

Can't stand how even a tiny little touch from an arm or an elbow from jumping for headers results in 'a rottweilers just bitten off my face' reaction.

[Finnegan]

But English players do that and have always been doing that.

Besides, Neuer had his standing leg taken out from underneath him at pace. I'm not saying he wasn't milking it a bit but it might have actually hurt him?

[cairnsy]

im bracing myself for the spain vs italy game - the amount of diving and playacting is going to be terrible and the worst part is all these international ref's will buy it completly so there will be constant stoppages in the game which makes for boring viewing.

[Jordan]

I am worried about all of the unnecessary bullshit that could go on in Spain vs Italy, but acooling, come on, man. The first four games were about as honestly played as any stretch of four consecutive games in a major international tournament as I've seen in a long while.

If anything, you should be happy after watching Spanish referee Carballo make a mess out of Poland vs Greece with an absolutely ridiculous sending off of Papastathopolous, because for all of the criticism English refs receive, they aren't that bad, all things considered.

[acooling08]

Fantastic challenge by the Spanish defender winning the ball with a sliding challenge from the Italian guy going down the wing... surprise surprise the ref gives a foul.

Edit: Watched the first half hour but going to watch F1 now, was actually pleasantly surprised by the lack of diving/playacting so far in the game. Also a little surprised at Italy outplaying Spain so far. Kudos to both teams (for now!)

[shen]

The only way to combat this is to do what Chelsea did in the Champions League and what Greece and Denmark have done so far in this competition. Simply fall back and concede 80% of the pitch to the team in possession, then wait for them to lose the ball trying to break into a packed area and try and hit them on the break.

Boring it might be, but until tackling is reintroduced into the game, get used to it.....

Apologies if I sound like a whiny bit.ch here, but I thought there was plenty of great tackling going on in the Netherlands - Denmark game. How many times did Zimling, Aggaer, Jacobsen, Kjær and even Bendtner slide around on the ground and mostly winning 50-50 tackles? And the Danes tried time and time again to play it out from the back, even after Andersen gifted that great chance which Robben smacked against the post. The fact the Dutch were still able to keep possession to such a degree is testament to their quality and the way they play. As a football fan, I had to applaud the quick one or two touch football they played which had the Danes running around in rings for the first part of each half yesterday, and the beautiful precision passes across the pitch when it got too congested. I think it's right that teams with superior quality should be rewarded for exactly that, and not get punished when opposing teams have to resort to in footballing terms illegal ways of stopping them. There's obviously a fine line there, where the protection the ball possessing team have can be exploited (a la constant diving, play acting, etc), but I can't say that I disagree with the general direction the football law is going.