Jon the Hat Posted 8 July 2012 Posted 8 July 2012 Many changes to the NHS are done to save money at the expense of service or carried out for change sake, again negatively impacting upon provision. This isn't, it's a good thing to improve healthcare provision for very sick children. Hang on just a minute. We agree on something. Well this is awkward.
Rincewind Posted 8 July 2012 Posted 8 July 2012 I wondered about that. does this mean he agreeswith Webbo too?
Trav Le Bleu Posted 8 July 2012 Posted 8 July 2012 Is this the reverse of being a NIMBY? I'm sorry, but I completely get why it's happening and though it might not be ideal to have less, it's good to be better. Quality over quantity and all that.
Daggers Posted 8 July 2012 Posted 8 July 2012 Hang on just a minute. We agree on something. Well this is awkward. It's the end of days, Jon - Famine, Death, Pestilence and the other one are on their way to play Travel Scrabble with us all.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 8 July 2012 Posted 8 July 2012 You realise Jon always insists on using 8 letter-tiles.
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 8 July 2012 Posted 8 July 2012 done, good luck. My sister in law will lose her job if this decision stays the same and she has worked there for over 25 years, gutted for her
Daggers Posted 8 July 2012 Posted 8 July 2012 You realise Jon always insists on using 8 letter-tiles. That's between him and Death.
Jon the Hat Posted 8 July 2012 Posted 8 July 2012 One hour drive or 10 hour drive in an emergancy? How about a world class surgical team or a just ok one? I know which I would choose. Clearly there are cases where time is of the essence, but I suspect in this case it is generally not as critical as having the best surgical team possible.
mcbfox Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 My son had open heart surgery 6 weeks ago at the Royal brompton which is also being closed, i cant tell you how hard it is to send you 18 month baby down to theatre knowing next time you see them they will be a ventalator for 2 days. But knowing the amazing quailty of care they offer gives you a sense of comfort. This quality will be diluted by stripping back services and surely whats more important is the experiance the patient and the families have. I feel lucky to have had a chance to have my son carred for by a small family orientated unit before it was to late.
Parafox Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 My son had open heart surgery 6 weeks ago at the Royal brompton which is also being closed, i cant tell you how hard it is to send you 18 month baby down to theatre knowing next time you see them they will be a ventalator for 2 days. But knowing the amazing quailty of care they offer gives you a sense of comfort. This quality will be diluted by stripping back services and surely whats more important is the experiance the patient and the families have. I feel lucky to have had a chance to have my son carred for by a small family orientated unit before it was to late. I hope your son is on the mend. Any surgery/trauma/illness involving a child is extremely stressful and worrying. That said, If there are, say, 20 peadiatric cardiac units in the UK and only, say, 8 highly experienced, skilful, renowned peadiatric cardio-thoracic surgical teams and the other 12 are "novices", why not have 8 centres of excellence where a child will have an increased chance of survival/recovery. You are right to say that the patient/relatives experience is important but what if that experience is a poor one due to lesser quality of treatment/care involving inexperienced clinicians and their teams? Surely, in anything, the pooling of expertise has to produce the best results. Are we not in danger of jumping on the protest bandwagon because this unit is in Leicester?
davieG Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I thought Glenfield was a World Class centre so why disrupt it?
Captain... Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I hope your son is on the mend. Any surgery/trauma/illness involving a child is extremely stressful and worrying. That said, If there are, say, 20 peadiatric cardiac units in the UK and only, say, 8 highly experienced, skilful, renowned peadiatric cardio-thoracic surgical teams and the other 12 are "novices", why not have 8 centres of excellence where a child will have an increased chance of survival/recovery. You are right to say that the patient/relatives experience is important but what if that experience is a poor one due to lesser quality of treatment/care involving inexperienced clinicians and their teams? Surely, in anything, the pooling of expertise has to produce the best results. Are we not in danger of jumping on the protest bandwagon because this unit is in Leicester? I do think there is an element of this is "ours" because we are in Leicester, but take your example, I am going to change it slightly to make it simpler, but I am assuming your figures were just illustrative and not factual. If there are 20 centres of excellence and 10 specialised child heart teams, then I would assign each team to 2 centres of excellence, instead of making the child with the heart condition travel, the fit and healthy surgeons could travel, permanent staff in each centre, and then surgery 3 days a week in each hospital, as well as cover for emergencies in both places, I don't know much about how many cases there are, or how quickly they need to be treated but if it is ok to expect a child to travel to Birmingham from Leicester, then surely they would be ok in waiting for the team to get to them. The other advantage would be to keep them stable in the hospital while waiting for the emergency team to get there, there could also be an air ambulance to transfer people between the 2 centres. Or I would just train up 10 more specialised teams. The above solution may be impractical, but looking at what I know of the situation it seems better for improving the quality of care than closing down centres.
Parafox Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I thought Glenfield was a World Class centre so why disrupt it? It's not in the right location? I don't know. All I'm saying is that it's better,in my opinion, to have fewer but better peadiatric cardio centres. Glenfield may be world class but if the next worl class one is Birmingham, more central with better infrastructre, why not choose that over Glenfield?
davieG Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 It's not in the right location? I don't know. All I'm saying is that it's better,in my opinion, to have fewer but better peadiatric cardio centres. Glenfield may be world class but if the next worl class one is Birmingham, more central with better infrastructre, why not choose that over Glenfield? I believe Glenfield has better facilities, they've just spent the last few years bringing in the most up to date equipment including a new extension to house it.
Parafox Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I do think there is an element of this is "ours" because we are in Leicester, but take your example, I am going to change it slightly to make it simpler, but I am assuming your figures were just illustrative and not factual. If there are 20 centres of excellence and 10 specialised child heart teams, then I would assign each team to 2 centres of excellence, instead of making the child with the heart condition travel, the fit and healthy surgeons could travel, permanent staff in each centre, and then surgery 3 days a week in each hospital, as well as cover for emergencies in both places, I don't know much about how many cases there are, or how quickly they need to be treated but if it is ok to expect a child to travel to Birmingham from Leicester, then surely they would be ok in waiting for the team to get to them. The other advantage would be to keep them stable in the hospital while waiting for the emergency team to get there, there could also be an air ambulance to transfer people between the 2 centres. Or I would just train up 10 more specialised teams. The above solution may be impractical, but looking at what I know of the situation it seems better for improving the quality of care than closing down centres. I take your point but, in reality it's impractical for teams to travel in whatever speciality of medicine. That's why the patients travel to the specialist and not the other way round.
davieG Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I take your point but, in reality it's impractical for teams to travel in whatever speciality of medicine. That's why the patients travel to the specialist and not the other way round. Why is it impractical?
Captain... Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I take your point but, in reality it's impractical for teams to travel in whatever speciality of medicine. That's why the patients travel to the specialist and not the other way round. It isn't really practical to make small children with heart problems travel either. Especially when you have the equipment, experience and expertise already in Glenfield, I do wonder how many people with experience in this field will move to the new centre of excellence, and how many will get fired, or switch jobs to remain at the hospital instead of moving.
Libertine Dream Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I don't understand the decision due to the fact Glenfield has the largest ECMO centre in Europe and is one of only 4/5 in the UK. The closest ECMO centre then is Great Ormond Street. Also people living in Rutland/Lincolnshire area are going to have a mammoth drive now to get toBirmingham kr wherever is next closest. Even people in Hinckley area have got a slightly longer drive. And it all matters, when a child has this prpblem it must be the most horrific thing for the parents and the child, so everything possible should be done to help them make it easier
Jon the Hat Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 My son had open heart surgery 6 weeks ago at the Royal brompton which is also being closed, i cant tell you how hard it is to send you 18 month baby down to theatre knowing next time you see them they will be a ventalator for 2 days. But knowing the amazing quailty of care they offer gives you a sense of comfort. This quality will be diluted by stripping back services and surely whats more important is the experiance the patient and the families have. I feel lucky to have had a chance to have my son carred for by a small family orientated unit before it was to late. I hope your son makes a full and speedy recovery, and as hopefully the only one of us on here with first hand experience, I respect your opinion on this.
Burmesefox Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 My daughter used the unit when she was born in 2000. I've signed up and hope many more on here will too.
Jon the Hat Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I don't understand the decision due to the fact Glenfield has the largest ECMO centre in Europe and is one of only 4/5 in the UK. The closest ECMO centre then is Great Ormond Street. Also people living in Rutland/Lincolnshire area are going to have a mammoth drive now to get toBirmingham kr wherever is next closest. Even people in Hinckley area have got a slightly longer drive. And it all matters, when a child has this prpblem it must be the most horrific thing for the parents and the child, so everything possible should be done to help them make it easier I suspect most of the equipment is easily moved. so I doubt if that is a consideration. In terms of the surgical team, I guess if they are or want to be among the best then they will move. In terms of your last comment, the main thing that can be done to make things easier is to make sure the highest possible number of children survive, which is exactly what they are trying to do. Everything else is and should be secondary.
Daggers Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I hardly see a trip to Birmingham as being a mammoth drive.
Parafox Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 If there is a centre of excellence in Birmingham and one in Glenfield and one HAS to close... the children of Birmingham will have a 30-ish mile drive to Glenfield. There is no easy solution other than keeping both places open and that clearly isn't going to happen.
z-layrex Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 Not signing it, wouldn't you rather travel further away so your child could have more expert care at a trust specialising in that field? Although reading up on the unit it does sound very impressive. Largest ECMO centre in Europe? That's pretty damn awesome. Hmm...
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