davieG Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I suspect most of the equipment is easily moved. so I doubt if that is a consideration. In terms of the surgical team, I guess if they are or want to be among the best then they will move. In terms of your last comment, the main thing that can be done to make things easier is to make sure the highest possible number of children survive, which is exactly what they are trying to do. Everything else is and should be secondary. They've said they're keeping that equipment because Glenfield will still deal with the pre-op and post-op care they'll only travel to Birmingham for the actual operation.
Parafox Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 As far as I know ECMO will stay at GGH. It can be used more effectively and more frequently for serious lung/respiratory problems in young and old. The post-op care of peadiatric cardio ssurgery is a seperate function of ECMO although the "job" is the same
Jon the Hat Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 They've said they're keeping that equipment because Glenfield will still deal with the pre-op and post-op care they'll only travel to Birmingham for the actual operation. Fair enough, in that case this is all about the actual surgeons, and if surgical experts say you get a better result from having centresof excellence (see GOSH for example) then I think we should support that.
z-layrex Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 As far as I know ECMO will stay at GGH. It can be used more effectively and more frequently for serious lung/respiratory problems in young and old. The post-op care of peadiatric cardio ssurgery is a seperate function of ECMO although the "job" is the same The itu I work in doesn't have ecmo beds as it's just a small DGH, so we have to transfer our patients that need it up to London. It's an amazing piece of kit:
Daggers Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 Fair enough, in that case this is all about the actual surgeons, and if surgical experts say you get a better result from having centresof excellence (see GOSH for example) then I think we should support that. So do I.
MPH Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 It's not about money, it's about concentrating expertise in centres of excellence. The idea is to save more childrens' lives. Thats extremly naive of you...
MPH Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 Many changes to the NHS are done to save money at the expense of service or carried out for change sake, again negatively impacting upon provision. This isn't, it's a good thing to improve healthcare provision for very sick children. I have not met a single doctor or nurse in any of the units , even the ones safe from closure. that agree that this would be a good thing. In Birmingham, for exmple... they are extremly concerned about the Glenfield unit closing... as most of our patients will go there for surgery. They feel it is dangerous to pool all the resources together and feel that having specialized units more local to the patient in need is the best way to improve patient care. I can assure you this IS about saving money but is being thinley vailed, by typical government spin as something to improve care. And wahey what a suprise the government will be saving a few million pounds each year if they stop doing the heart surgery at Glenfield. There is nothing at all positive to be gained by this. Already at Glenfield there are nurses and doctors who do not want to and will not move to Birmingham- their life and families are in Leicester and will look for Jobs in Leicester if they need to. These are all very experienced staff - Birmingham will be faced with a huge recuitment drive and will really struggle to find experienced cardiac nurses/ doctors ( there is a strict ratio of one nurse to every Pediatric intensive care patient) and it could be a huge catastrophy. The ironic thing about it iis that a little while after surgery, they will transport the patients back to Leicester ( this is the plan) whilst still Intensive care patients, for prolonged care. There is no part of that, that will make any sense. Operate in one city and send them to another for a hospital bed? Its just pure crazy. I can assure you, this is ALL aboiut money saving...
Daggers Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 In Birmingham, for exmple... they are extremly concerned about the Glenfield unit closing... My wife worked at the Birmingham Childrens' Hospital for three years, from '06-'09. Her viewpoint and that of her colleagues contradicts yours.
ADK Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I would like to hear arguements from actual medical staff really.
Parafox Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 If this was a valid argument that we need to have a specialist unit at Glenfield, then surely we would also need a specialist neurological and brain injuries centre, a specialist burns centre, a specialist trauma centre... etc etc etc
Fox92 Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 More than 12,000 sigs apparently. Decent attempt everyone!
Libertine Dream Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 For people living in say, Lincoln, they'll now have to do a 2 hour drive which I think is horrible when their child is having a major heart op. They also got rid of Leeds which makes it worse. I personally don't believe that by closing the 3 that they have, that much will improve but what do I know.
z-layrex Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I have not met a single doctor or nurse in any of the units , even the ones safe from closure. that agree that this would be a good thing. In Birmingham, for exmple... they are extremly concerned about the Glenfield unit closing... as most of our patients will go there for surgery. They feel it is dangerous to pool all the resources together and feel that having specialized units more local to the patient in need is the best way to improve patient care. I can assure you this IS about saving money but is being thinley vailed, by typical government spin as something to improve care. And wahey what a suprise the government will be saving a few million pounds each year if they stop doing the heart surgery at Glenfield. There is nothing at all positive to be gained by this. Already at Glenfield there are nurses and doctors who do not want to and will not move to Birmingham- their life and families are in Leicester and will look for Jobs in Leicester if they need to. These are all very experienced staff - Birmingham will be faced with a huge recuitment drive and will really struggle to find experienced cardiac nurses/ doctors ( there is a strict ratio of one nurse to every Pediatric intensive care patient) and it could be a huge catastrophy. The ironic thing about it iis that a little while after surgery, they will transport the patients back to Leicester ( this is the plan) whilst still Intensive care patients, for prolonged care. There is no part of that, that will make any sense. Operate in one city and send them to another for a hospital bed? Its just pure crazy. I can assure you, this is ALL aboiut money saving... I think performing the surgery at a centre of excellence, and then having a retrieval team bring the child back back to Glenfield when stable enough is a much better way of doing things, both for the patient and the budget, You are forgetting that we HAVE to save money. The trust i'm working for has to save 10 million pounds this year or it's in danger of being taken over by an administrator or even liquidated. You see it in everything, we're supposed to have 10 nurses to 10 ITU beds every shift, never happens. This is just one example. If they can save money and improve the quality of surgery, I think that's a great thing. The NHS can't just carry on as it was.
mcbfox Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I think performing the surgery at a centre of excellence, and then having a retrieval team bring the child back back to Glenfield when stable enough is a much better way of doing things, both for the patient and the budget, You are forgetting that we HAVE to save money. The trust i'm working for has to save 10 million pounds this year or it's in danger of being taken over by an administrator or even liquidated. You see it in everything, we're supposed to have 10 nurses to 10 ITU beds every shift, never happens. This is just one example. If they can save money and improve the quality of surgery, I think that's a great thing. The NHS can't just carry on as it was. I can see your point as i work as a nurse at a specialist hospital in london and see the savings that take place in action, but i truly beleave these services should be spared from the penny pinching. I have also been to great ormond street with my son and due to the fact they see so many children that individual attention gets lost. The brompton gave us free accomodation, we met the surgen in his office and talked through any questions we had, with more patients great ormond street cant offer that! I no they are diffrent hospitals and cities but this situation is transferable. Not having family close due to them living back in leicester was so hard, by shutting sites you make it even harder!
Jon the Hat Posted 10 July 2012 Posted 10 July 2012 I can see your point as i work as a nurse at a specialist hospital in london and see the savings that take place in action, but i truly beleave these services should be spared from the penny pinching. I have also been to great ormond street with my son and due to the fact they see so many children that individual attention gets lost. The brompton gave us free accomodation, we met the surgen in his office and talked through any questions we had, with more patients great ormond street cant offer that! I no they are diffrent hospitals and cities but this situation is transferable. Not having family close due to them living back in leicester was so hard, by shutting sites you make it even harder! These recommendations have been around in one guise or another for many years. Labour chose to ignore them as they dont like taking decisions which are unpopular, regardless of whether they are right or not. Fortunately we have a government which has had to make unpopular decisions and is getting comfortable with it. Some right some wrong not doubt, but at least they are not afraid to make them.
Ian W LCFC Posted 10 July 2012 Author Posted 10 July 2012 More than 12,000 sigs apparently. Decent attempt everyone! Very good attempt but we need 100,000:'(
MPH Posted 11 July 2012 Posted 11 July 2012 I think performing the surgery at a centre of excellence, and then having a retrieval team bring the child back back to Glenfield when stable enough is a much better way of doing things, both for the patient and the budget, You are forgetting that we HAVE to save money. The trust i'm working for has to save 10 million pounds this year or it's in danger of being taken over by an administrator or even liquidated. You see it in everything, we're supposed to have 10 nurses to 10 ITU beds every shift, never happens. This is just one example. If they can save money and improve the quality of surgery, I think that's a great thing. The NHS can't just carry on as it was. Glenfield IS the centre of excellence. Thats the whole point. Highest survival rate in the whole of the UK. An article released today: Expert's warning over Glenfield Hospital's loss of ECMO unit Children's ECMO treatment will move from Glenfield Hospital but treatment for adults will stay About 50 babies and children will die over five years if specialist life support treatment moves from Leicester to Birmingham, an expert has warned. Paediatric ECMO treatment, used to oxygenate the blood of patients, is to move from Glenfield Hospital. International ECMO expert Kenneth Palmer has written to Health Secretary Andrew Lansley warning 20 years of experience will be thrown away. Mr Lansley is currently considering advice on the impact of the decision. ECMO has been used on children and adults at Glenfield Hospital for 20 years. The hospital has the UK's largest ECMO unit. The children's ECMO treatment is due to move as part of national reorganisation of child heart surgery. The hospital's children's heart surgery unit is also set to move. Leading centre Mr Palmer, director of the ECMO unit at Karolinska University Hospital in Stockholm, Sweden, said: "Leicester has one of the highest survival rates [for patients who need ECMO] in the world. "They could never have the same survival rate in another unit if you move it like this. "You have to destroy it and then you have to rebuild it. There is no way you can just move treatment like this. "I don't think you should destroy something that has been built up for 20 years just overnight like this." He said Leicester and Stockholm were world-leading ECMO centres and both had survival rates about 10% to 20% higher than the normal rate in other parts of the world. He estimated 10 extra children will die each year if the survival rate drops. The letter to Andrew Lansley states: "You will take over 20 years of experience from one of the world's absolute best ECMO units and throw it away ... and probably it will take at least five years to have some kind of quality and probably 20 years to come back to top quality if it's ever possible." 'Considering advice' The Joint Committee of Primary Care Trusts (JCPCT), which made the decision to stop child heart surgery at Glenfield, said it wants to improve services by creating fewer but larger surgical centres. Teresa Moss, director of the National Specialised Commissioning Team, said: "A panel of independent experts, led by Sir Ian Kennedy, assessed each centre's ability to meet the proposed national quality standards both now and in the future. "The panel ranked Birmingham Children's Hospital third out of the 11 centres. Leicester was ranked ninth. "We are well aware of the expertise at Glenfield Hospital and it is important that this expertise is retained in the Midlands through joint planning by Glenfield Hospital and Birmingham Children's Hospital." A statement from the Department of Health said: "A final decision on the future configuration of children's congenital heart services was made by the Joint Committee of Primary Care Trusts on 4 July. "The Advisory Group for National Specialised Services (AGNSS) has provided advice on the impact of this decision for the nationally commissioned paediatric ECMO service at Glenfield Hospital, Leicester. The Health Secretary is currently considering the advice of AGNSS." http://www.bbc.co.uk...rshire-18783972
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 12 July 2012 Posted 12 July 2012 Already done, and the wife also Please please please other people help - thanks
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 13 July 2012 Posted 13 July 2012 More than 12,000 sigs apparently. Decent attempt everyone! agreed, lets keep it going
Ian W LCFC Posted 14 July 2012 Author Posted 14 July 2012 UP They are apperently going to briefly discuss it in parliment, keep the sigs coming guys!!!!
MPH Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 UP They are apperently going to briefly discuss it in parliment, keep the sigs coming guys!!!!
Rincewind Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Speaker: Next on the agenda is an objection to the Glenfield Childrens hospital in Leicester closing. Cameron. They are poor Northerners are they not? Speaker: Yes Cameron: In that case, meeting over. Let's all go home. Mp's :Hear hear
MPH Posted 14 July 2012 Posted 14 July 2012 Speaker: Next on the agenda is an objection to the Glenfield Childrens hospital in Leicester closing. Cameron. They are poor Northerners are they not? Speaker: Yes Cameron: In that case, meeting over. Let's all go home. Mp's :Hear hear Im beginning to lose the ability to ever take you seriously. I know in some ways you are joking, but its still just a mask for what you really believe....
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