The Class System

[Zingari]

The working class can kiss my arse,

I've got the foremans' job at last.

I'm out of work and on the dole,

You can stuff the red flag up your hole.

come on , singalong people

[Rincewind]

Ewo upper class twits, Daggers and ???

[THEFATBASTARD]

My man fortescue knows his place and so do I.. this thread is trying to stir things up, disgraceful..

[davieG]

I know my place

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/collections/p00gs4vy#p00hhrwl

[THEFATBASTARD]

I know my place

http://www.bbc.co.uk...0gs4vy#p00hhrwl

And I look down on cleese...

[Rincewind]

There is classism still. Someone doing an unskilled menial job is regarded by some as a poor waste of space by those in a reasonably paid job. They believe they will never be at that level because they have bought their own house and have a job that is guranteed forever.

[THEFATBASTARD]

see what this thread has caused.. I have just ordered fortescue to put the hat with the anklers on , so I can hunt him, he has refused.. outrageous !

[NiftyFox]

Yes I did go to one of the best private schools in this country.

[Knightonian]

Sociologically speaking class is generally defined by your fathers occupation. It is perfectly possible to move up the class system. Only the aristocracy are Upper Class. Wealth does not define class hence why most footballers are working class, however, the higher you are in the class system the more money you tend to earn. You could have added to the list Underclass, which is generally considered to be your chav/non-working types (although the idea of Underclass is opening a rather large can of worms).

I voted that I don't thnk the class system is very important these days.

For the record I would be classed as Upper Middle because of where I live, my education and my parents occupations. I'm a total lefty so I have to agree that I am pretty much a Champagne Socialist.

[THEFATBASTARD]

Sociologically speaking class is generally defined by your fathers occupation. It is perfectly possible to move up the class system. Only the aristocracy are Upper Class. Wealth does not define class hence why most footballers are working class, however, the higher you are in the class system the more money you tend to earn. You could have added to the list Underclass, which is generally considered to be your chav/non-working types (although the idea of Underclass is opening a rather large can of worms).

I voted that I don't thnk the class system is very important these days.

For the record I would be classed as Upper Middle because of where I live, my education and my parents occupations. I'm a total lefty so I have to agree that I am pretty much a Champagne Socialist.

I would have you flogged..

[ADK]

I really don't think classes exist these days. We have social mobility that we did not have before. Someone can grow up on a shitty council estate but go to university and become a doctor. The former aristocracy are no longer able to sit in their country estates making free money. Thats not to say environmental factors do not play a part in someones life prospects, private education is still far superior to state education and poor parenting and a deprived upbringing can damage children's futures.

[ADK]

What do people feel defines a persons class?

Their salary?

Their type of occupation?

Their parents occupation?

Whether they went to private or state schools?

Their educational achievements?

What language they use?

Their material possessions?

Their social activities?

Their chosen lifestyle?

The area they live in?

[Parafox]

Well the definitions are totally clear, but about 60 years out of date.

Quite simply, you are working class if you have a manual job and middle class if you have a white collar job. This made sense in the early 20th century and before, when most people worked in manual jobs and lived in terraced houses, while the managers and professional - the middle class - earned more money and lived in detached houses.

The definitions are completely irrelevant nowadays, as many manual workers earn very good salaries while a lot of lowered-paid workers (call centres and all that shite) would be technically categorised as middle class.

The whole class system is irrelevant now as the "nouveau riche" can claim to be middle/upper class in terms of monetary wealth. I know builders and car dealers who are very wealthy but are as thick as pig-sh1t uneducated and definitely not in the "class" they like to think they are.

The whole social mobility thing is about improving your life and lifestyle not about moving up to the next "class".

If anything, the class system pervades in the Etonian and public school upbringing and it is these people who would insist that class still exists because they see themselves at the top of the pile.

Check out the Ronnie Corbett/Barker/John Cleese sketch on class. (I can't link to YouTube due to being at work)

[Captain...]

What do people feel defines a persons class?

Their salary?

Their type of occupation?

Their parents occupation?

Whether they went to private or state schools?

Their educational achievements?

What language they use?

Their material possessions?

Their social activities?

Their chosen lifestyle?

The area they live in?

Their accent.

[Guest Bilo]

If it was based on money, Wayne Rooney would be considered a toff.

Class is notoriously hard to define and is given more relevance than it really deserves in this country.

[Parafox]

If it was based on money, Wayne Rooney would be considered a toff.

Class is notoriously hard to define and is given more relevance than it really deserves in this country.

Yes, see my post 2 up...

It's really only this country that has this idea of class. In America it's about wealth and possesion rather than your family lineage

[ozleicester]

Our return to England in 2010 was without doubt an enormous eye opener for us.

If anyone in England thinks the class system is either irrelevant or non existent then you are sadly mistaken, unfortunately it is so ingrained that i don't think it is likely to ever be removed.

[Rincewind]

There is not really a class system any more but there are people who think they are better than others. A couple of people I have known illustrate this.

The first was born in the Wall Street area of Leicester, poor housing and poor people. He eventually married and moved from the area to a county village. But when somebody mentioned a family that lived in the street he was born in he denied he ever lived there.

Another bloke won on spot the ball and was able to move away from a council house but he never mentioned it. Used to play bowls and Follow Rugby. He used to say that he mixed with some top people at the Rugby 'A much better class of people than football fans'.

He did the same job as me but becaused he socialised with one or two people that were chaiman of social groups he thought himself better.

You will find this of people on committes of WMC too. Part of it is the power and being in charge. The Chaiman of Leicester CAMRA is similar, a van driver but when in the organizing role it is a clipboard in hand and head held up.

There are many Mrs Bucket (Bou-Quet) typesa around and sometimes there are the worse type of class.

Snobbery

The new residents at the Manor

Were in a pickle, with a dilemma

Their neighbors’ were rather posh

With exclamations like 'Golly gosh'

Keeping up appearances in other homes

Is rather hard when your name is Jones.

There are two classes. The haves and the have nots and the haves want to keep it that way.

[Charl91]

Both my parents went to university, so I'd say I'm firmly in the middle class. I would say it's not nearly as relevant as it used to be though.

[Captain...]

There is a difference between the class system and snobbery, snobbery exists in many forms in UK society, whether it is the area you live in, the car you drive or the music you listen too, or even how you listen to it. Class snobbery is of course another form of it, but again it is not just a case of the higher classes lord it over the lower classes, there is working class snobbery too, where people play up on their working class hero status and look down on those who are trying climb the social ladder. Or those working class types with a massive chip on their shoulder and believe they are better than middle class people in the same job because they got there without "being born with a silver spoon in their mouth" and didn't get mummy and daddy to pay for everything and didn't go to university, this is just as bad as believing you are better than someone because of you are part of a higher class.

I guess my problem with the class system is the social exclusion, for example Opera or Ballet it is just assumed that someone from a poorer background couldn't or wouldn't want to understand or participate in such things, it is not just a price thing, if you can afford to spend thousands a year on going to the football then you can afford to take the kids to the theatre, but it is still considered elitist and no place for the working class by some.

It is certainly not as bad as it used to be, especially when it comes to sport, Football is no longer solely the domain of the working class and Cricket is not as elite as it used to be (except at Lords).

[1964FOX]

An example of snobbery that resinated with me when I was a young man and was being told about working class people who had money was,

''You can take the shit out of a bucket and put it in a crystal glass bowl but it will still be shit''

He didn't know I came from a concil estate cause i'm in a middle class job innit and he assumed I shared his predjudices.

[MPH]

There is no class system.

Are you being serious?

Horoscopes are there, but they don't mean anything!

But they are still there, even if they mean nothing and are of no significance - they still exist... and even though you dont see them as important, some people do...

[MPH]

Personally, i see class as no emotional or social value.....

I think the problem with class however is those in any specific category look down on those in another one... as if to judge them as a bad person, usually to make themselves feel better about who they are.

I DO see a good side to every class though ( yes i know there is a bad side too)

Where would this country be without roadsweepers? without people collecting the rubbish? without cleaners? without factory workers? All so called typical working class jobs...

Now i do not understand how someone can have the money to buy a yacht? but that money paid for people to have jobs, who could then provide for thier family... who then bought stuff... that people in factories made which gave those people jobs...

Espensive cars? same thing! every item bought was typically made by someone who earned a wage and provided for their family. There are multi milionaires up and down this land whos homes are packed full of stuff that I could never comprehend owning... but were typically bought in shops that had employees, were made by people, ect.....

My point is this.. you take the upper class, middle upper class folk ect our of the equasion then that will take out so so many jobs that are providing them with services and products - we need them!

Take out the working class folk and those other classes just wouldnt survive... the coountry would be in ruins.

The Real issue for me is what value you put upon yourself... if you see yourself as worthless you'll feel worthless or if you put your value in posessions... you'll try to feel better about yourself by letting bitterness tell you that someone with money and class looks down on you, is selfish and doesnt care about anyone but themselves.

The reality is most of us are insecure about who we are - some in the upper classes TRY and look down on working class people to make themselves feel better about who they are ( many do actually come to the conclusion that happiness is NOT found in wealth and that is where their insecurities come from...)

So really you have to have value in who you are as a person and realise you play an important role in society no matter what class you belong to.

I would consider myself to be working class - i have always had a relatively low paid job... never owned my own home ( just trying to buy 1st one now!) but i must admit the one ' type' of person that bugs me, if there is such a 'type' are the people who have no desire to work and just want to collect benefits all their lives... ( note the bold... there is a difference between not working, not being able to find a job and having no desire to work)

[Smudge]

I think class is somewhat indefinable you just know it when you see it.

It has something but not everything to do with money.

Some years ago when I was really "earning", I became a member of the MCC. It was interesting how, without even speaking to some of the member's they knew I was not one of them, I could feel it. Probably my own feeling of insecurity sent vibes to those who could recognize it. In the same way I can spot a fish out of water in a fine restaurant I suppose.

It's about fitting in, I think. My mate goes to Witherspoons and has always enjoyed the company of what one might call working class blokes. he is very intelligent, well read and can keep us all in anecdotal stories all night long but with them he dumbs it down. Cusses like a squaddie, talks to the crowd as if he lived their kind of life but doesn't. He fits in, I on the other hand, when I accompany him I feel quite out of place and they know it.

Obviously there is a company of people I am comfortable with and they are my class which is somewhere in the middle.

[ADK]

I still don't think class exists in modern Britain.