Waghorn's Interview last night....

[Charl91]

Well the England Cap and the FA Cup winners medal for a start.

The one England Cap vs. Andorra was hardly an amazing achievement, a meaningless game. FA cup victory aside, which Nugent didn't exactly play a massive part in anyway, Nugent has been more of a flop in the Premier league than Beckford has been. I'm a Nugent fan, but to make blanket statements like "Nugent has already achieved more than Beckford ever will in his career" is ridiculous, because there's already a case to argue that Beckford has a better record.

If you'd just said Konchesky, then I probably would have agreed.

Ok, I'll define done more; Konchesky has played for a top ten Premier League club and been a massive part of a Europa League campaign that saw his team in the final, which he played in. Nugent has played in the PL and did enough to earn an England cap and won an FA Cup medal - that's more than Danns and Beckford will ever manage.

Beckford played and scored in the PL, at a better ratio to Nugent.

Let me make this clear - I'm not saying I want Beckford back. But Nugents prowess is being way exaggerated here.

[cc_star]

Beckford played and scored in the PL, at a better ratio to Nugent.

Here's one stat that matters. Beckford didn't score in 80% of his games for us, and did precious little when he wasn't scoring as he failed to link up well with a partner, hold the ball for the midfield to join in, or link up well with his nearest wide-man (in short, all the stuff both Nuge & Vardy have done well contributing to the team rising up the table). In short Beckford has been a massive flop.

Who cares less what he's done elsewhere, or will do in the future? What does it matter?

[indierich06]

The one England Cap vs. Andorra was hardly an amazing achievement, a meaningless game. FA cup victory aside, which Nugent didn't exactly play a massive part in anyway, Nugent has been more of a flop in the Premier league than Beckford has been. I'm a Nugent fan, but to make blanket statements like "Nugent has already achieved more than Beckford ever will in his career" is ridiculous, because there's already a case to argue that Beckford has a better record.

If you'd just said Konchesky, then I probably would have agreed.

Beckford played and scored in the PL, at a better ratio to Nugent.

Let me make this clear - I'm not saying I want Beckford back. But Nugents prowess is being way exaggerated here.

What are you going to be more proud to tell the grandkids?

'I've got an FA Cup medal and I've played for England'

or

'I scored 8 goals for Everton before they decided I wasn't good enough and sold me to a Championship club'

You're also forgetting the fact that apart from the goals he scored for Everton, most of Beckford's goals were scored in League One. Nearly all of Nugent's goals have been scored at a higher level than Beckford's and I think Nugent is unquestionably the better championship striker, if we're going on goals alone.

[Charl91]

Here's one stat that matters. Beckford didn't score in 80% of his games for us, and did precious little when he wasn't scoring as he failed to link up well with a partner, hold the ball for the midfield to join in, or link up well with his nearest wide-man (in short, all the stuff both Nuge & Vardy have done well contributing to the team rising up the table). In short Beckford has been a massive flop.

Who cares less what he's done elsewhere, or will do in the future? What does it matter?

I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD BRING BECKFORD BACK. Or indeed that he was better than Nugent was for us - he wasn't.

All I'm saying is that comments such as "Nugent has achieved more in his career then Beckford ever will" are being made with blue-tinted specs on. I'm not the one to bring Beckford up in the first place!!

What are you going to be more proud to tell the grandkids?

'I've got an FA Cup medal and I've played for England'

or

'I scored 8 goals for Everton before they decided I wasn't good enough and sold me to a Championship club'

You're also forgetting the fact that apart from the goals he scored for Everton, most of Beckford's goals were scored in League One. Nearly all of Nugent's goals have been scored at a higher level than Beckford's and I think Nugent is unquestionably the better championship striker, if we're going on goals alone.

Or "I scored a goal single handedly against Chelsea" You're right that the FA Cup/England cap looks better on paper, but maybe if they ask to see the games they wouldn't be so impressed

As to who is the best championship striker, for me it's too early to tell. Tough to call I think. Nugent was better last season for the most part, but they did score at a fairly similar rate last season, and Beckford has 2 goals in 3 games this season (he's currently injured). I think it's clear that Nugent is a better fit for Leicester, but whether he is certainly the better championship striker I think remains to be seen.

[Babylon]

The one England Cap vs. Andorra was hardly an amazing achievement, a meaningless game. FA cup victory aside, which Nugent didn't exactly play a massive part in anyway, Nugent has been more of a flop in the Premier league than Beckford has been. I'm a Nugent fan, but to make blanket statements like "Nugent has already achieved more than Beckford ever will in his career" is ridiculous, because there's already a case to argue that Beckford has a better record.

If you'd just said Konchesky, then I probably would have agreed.

Beckford played and scored in the PL, at a better ratio to Nugent.

When you were 80, would you rather have an England cap and an FA Cup winners medal. Or the fact for one season you played in the premier and got 9 goals? It doesn't matter who the cap was against, it doesn't matter whether he played 90 or 1 minute. He has them at home. Where as Beckford has his 50m swimming badge and cycling proficiency certificate on his wall.

In all Nugents years in this league he's never failed to beat Beckfords goals last year (Only Beckfords second season above league two in his career).

[indierich06]

When you were 80, would you rather have an England cap and an FA Cup winners medal. Or the fact for one season you played in the premier and got 9 goals? It doesn't matter who the cap was against, it doesn't matter whether he played 90 or 1 minute. He has them at home. Where as Beckford has his 50m swimming badge and cycling proficiency certificate on his wall.

In all Nugents years in this league he's never failed to beat Beckfords goals last year (Only Beckfords second season above league two in his career).

Good post, but League Two...?

[Charl91]

When you were 80, would you rather have an England cap and an FA Cup winners medal. Or the fact for one season you played in the premier and got 9 goals? It doesn't matter who the cap was against, it doesn't matter whether he played 90 or 1 minute. He has them at home. Where as Beckford has his 50m swimming badge and cycling proficiency certificate on his wall.

You're right, on paper it does look better - but it doesn't actually quantify how good at football they are, which is what this discussion is about.

Having a higher scoring record in the premier league > Having a higher scoring record in the championship.

In all Nugents years in this league he's never failed to beat Beckfords goals last year (Only Beckfords second season above league two in his career).

But that's not true, is it? Or are you conviniently discounting cup goals again

[Babylon]

I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD BRING BECKFORD BACK. Or indeed that he was better than Nugent was for us - he wasn't.

All I'm saying is that comments such as "Nugent has achieved more in his career then Beckford ever will" are being made with blue-tinted specs on.

No they aren't, it's blatantly true. Any argument for Beckford is based on one solitary season. For all you know the goals Beckford scored at Everton and the ones Nugent didn't score at Pompey were one off seasons. You look over the rest of their careers and Nugent has almost constantly been a step ahead of Beckford with his goals and the league he's played in. Without even bringing major achievements like caps and medals into it.

Good post, but League Two...?

Old Division two... I work in old money.

[Babylon]

Having a higher scoring record in the premier league > Having a higher scoring record in the championship.

So over what might be a 15 year career, you look at one season. How about all the years Nugent has been playing in this Division and constantly scoring more than Beckford has in this league?

[Charl91]

So over what might be a 15 year career, you look at one season. How about all the years Nugent has been playing in this Division and constantly scoring more than Beckford has in this league?

So you're basing it on Beckfords one season in the championship? After you specifically state to not base it on one season?

I think you'll find this season he has a better ratio than Nugent

[seenitall]

Some interesting and emotional points as ever - can't be arsed to do the quote thing.

I love how not towing the 'I Love Nige' line = being a troll - some of the sanctimonious crap written about also rans like Whitbread, Marshall, Drinkwater, De Laet and even Dyer make me think you lot are trolls sometimes.....

No I would not 'rather' have Mills than Wes - Wes has done a great job but he is our ONLY half decent centre back - so much so that we are forced to play a kid out of position next to him. Would I rather Mills than any of the others we have played there this year YES so Mills/ Morgan would have been pretty good stuff I reckon. His bad attitude came to the surface when Nige came back as did Becks (as did SSL's) and then we never saw him again - we also were poorer defensively after he was dropped but lets not let stats get in the way of prejudice.

Same with Becks v Nuge - we gave Beckford 4 games this season and then shipped him out - the £1m replacement from the lower leagues looks exactly that and we have not had any other options. I think they both had goals in them if managed right and given some service - whose fault is it now that we have 1 striker who can score and four guys not good enough BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION to play next to him?

So sorry its boring but not as boring as 1 point in 9 after being top - same sort of run that Taylor went on after we topped the Prem - its where you are at the end of the season that counts

[Manwell Pablo]

So you're basing it on Beckfords one season in the championship? After you specifically state to not base it on one season?

I think you'll find this season he has a better ratio than Nugent

I'm struggling here, can't even work out what point your trying to put across.

Are you trying to argue that Beckford is a better player than Nugent? Or that Beckford has achieved more than Nugent in his career? (Your wrong either way btw)

[seenitall]

I'm struggling here, can't even work out what point your trying to put across.

Are you trying to argue that Beckford is a better player than Nugent? Or that Beckford has achieved more than Nugent in his career? (Your wrong either way btw)

He's scored more goals in less games though

[Manwell Pablo]

He's scored more goals in less games though

Pratically all of them in League One, according to you we should be avoiding players of this level?

[Charl91]

I'm struggling here, can't even work out what point your trying to put across.

Are you trying to argue that Beckford is a better player than Nugent? Or that Beckford has achieved more than Nugent in his career? (Your wrong either way btw)

I'm not trying to argue either. I'm arguing that they are of too similar a level to say that one is easily better than the other. Which is true.

I really do have to agree with Seenitall in some points - apparently unless you blindly thinking every Leicester player is the best in his position ever, or think that it is not possible for Nigel to ever make a mistake, then you're a "troll"...

While I'm at it, the underrating of Mills here has become criminal. Yes he had an attitude/discipline problem, and yes, we were right to ship him out because of that, but he wasn't a bad defender in the slightest, even if he wasn't a top class one. He actually had a fairly good defensive record here, it's just that they mainly coincided with games where we were unable to score. Infact, Mills/Bamba was our best pairing last season, while SSL had a dreadful record.

But FoxesTalk does like a good bit of Revisionism.

[Manwell Pablo]

I'm not trying to argue either. I'm arguing that they are of too similar a level to say that one is easily better than the other. Which is true.

Well I know whose career I'd prefer to have and I know which one I'd prefer playing in our first team, so I'd say Im finding it quite easy myself!

[indierich06]

No I would not 'rather' have Mills than Wes - Wes has done a great job but he is our ONLY half decent centre back - so much so that we are forced to play a kid out of position next to him. Would I rather Mills than any of the others we have played there this year YES so Mills/ Morgan would have been pretty good stuff I reckon. His bad attitude came to the surface when Nige came back as did Becks (as did SSL's) and then we never saw him again - we also were poorer defensively after he was dropped but lets not let stats get in the way of prejudice.

SSL is an international defender and Whitbread was a standout performer for his team in the Premier League last season. These are not average defenders at all, these are good defenders. How you can argue that point is beyond me - with this defence we've gone on an unbeaten run far beyond anything we achieved last season, all with these so called crap CB's in the side. We have at least three very good options at CB, including two young prospects if needed. Also, we've been significantly better defensively this season, especially at home, than we were last season when we were getting battered by teams like Millwall at home and funnily enough, this has been without Matt Mills in the side - but hey, let's not allow stats to get in the way of prejudice.

Same with Becks v Nuge - we gave Beckford 4 games this season and then shipped him out - the £1m replacement from the lower leagues looks exactly that and we have not had any other options. I think they both had goals in them if managed right and given some service - whose fault is it now that we have 1 striker who can score and four guys not good enough BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION to play next to him?

The 'lower league replacement' has scored more goals than Beckford has this season, including his games at Huddersfield, and I think I'm correct in saying he's scored more so far this season than Beckford had at the same point last season. So I'm not sure how you can say how Beckford is somehow the better player on form and goals scored.

Also, if you actually read my post, I never said that these players weren't good enough to play for us. I said that they're squad players, used to fill in here and there and they're good enough to do this. I think Waghorn hs the potential to play a big part once he's been given a run of games as well, but you obviously want to write him off immediately so there's no changing your mind there.

All these people who laud Beckford as the solution to our problems and as this amazing goalscorer if he's 'managed right'... well he must be a ****ing nightmare to manage because Moyes, Erikkson, Pearson and now Grayson have got next to nothing out of him. Could it just be that he's just prolific in the lower leagues and can't cut it above? No you're right, he's obviously just not being managed corrextly, despite never showing ANY signs that he can cut it above League One.

So sorry its boring but not as boring as 1 point in 9 after being top - same sort of run that Taylor went on after we topped the Prem - its where you are at the end of the season that counts

I prefer to look at the bigger picture rather than pick out the parts that make us look bad so I can revel in it. The fact is, we're fourth in the league with 26 points from 15 games. For me, that is a clear progression from last season's disaster and - again, for me - progress is something to get excited about. Please, if it's boring you - stop posting, stop following the club. You won't be missed.

[indierich06]

He's scored more goals in less games though

With the vast majority of them at a lower level, doesn't mean he's a better player. If I scored 50 goals in league 2, it doesn't mean I'm better than Wayne Rooney because he only scored 30 goals in the Premier League.

[Charl91]

SSL is an international defender

For the Republic of Ireland. That means nothing.

With the vast majority of them at a lower level, doesn't mean he's a better player. If I scored 50 goals in league 2, it doesn't mean I'm better than Wayne Rooney because he only scored 30 goals in the Premier League.

Yes, but when Beckford's superior Premier League ratio is compared to Nugent, then people just mention that Nugent scores more in the championship.

Double standards!

[indierich06]

For the Republic of Ireland. That means nothing.

Yes, but when Beckford's superior Premier League ratio is compared to Nugent, then people just mention that Nugent scores more in the championship.

Double standards!

You're right to say that Beckford's ratio in the Premier League is better than Nugent's obviously, but on the whole Nugent's goalscoring record is far better than Beckford's and most of those goals have been scored at a higher level. If you take goals scored in the top two leagues into account, Nugent is the better striker without a shadow of a doubt.

[Manwell Pablo]

For the Republic of Ireland. That means nothing.

Yes, but when Beckford's superior Premier League ratio is compared to Nugent, then people just mention that Nugent scores more in the championship.

Double standards!

It's not double standards Nugent has a consistant record in the Championship over many seasons, the only league Beckford has that in is League One.

[Babylon]

So you're basing it on Beckfords one season in the championship? After you specifically state to not base it on one season?

I think you'll find this season he has a better ratio than Nugent

No I'm basing it on the fact he's never done it above league one except for one season, where has Nugent has... Many times.

[Corky]

We are poorer defensively without Mills.

That's why in the three games after he was dropped (as you like a little three-game run) we conceded one goal, compared to the three goals in his final game for us.

[Manwell Pablo]

No I'm basing it on the fact he's never done it above league one except for one season, where has Nugent has... Many times.

I wouldn't even say scoring 8/9 goals in 34 games is "doing it" myself but there we are.

[Babylon]

Some interesting and emotional points as ever - can't be arsed to do the quote thing.

I love how not towing the 'I Love Nige' line = being a troll - some of the sanctimonious crap written about also rans like Whitbread, Marshall, Drinkwater, De Laet and even Dyer make me think you lot are trolls sometimes.....

No I would not 'rather' have Mills than Wes - Wes has done a great job but he is our ONLY half decent centre back - so much so that we are forced to play a kid out of position next to him. Would I rather Mills than any of the others we have played there this year YES so Mills/ Morgan would have been pretty good stuff I reckon. His bad attitude came to the surface when Nige came back as did Becks (as did SSL's) and then we never saw him again - we also were poorer defensively after he was dropped but lets not let stats get in the way of prejudice.

Same with Becks v Nuge - we gave Beckford 4 games this season and then shipped him out - the £1m replacement from the lower leagues looks exactly that and we have not had any other options. I think they both had goals in them if managed right and given some service - whose fault is it now that we have 1 striker who can score and four guys not good enough BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION to play next to him?

So sorry its boring but not as boring as 1 point in 9 after being top - same sort of run that Taylor went on after we topped the Prem - its where you are at the end of the season that counts

Considering De Laet is an also ran and we only have one CB having the second best defence in the league is some achievement for Pearson.

Where we are come the end of the season matters. So why you bleating on about 3 games then as though they are the end of the world.