Guest Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 Extremists who believe in God seem to be dangerous. Extremists who don't believe in God can be just as dangerous. Believers think that they have to answer for their actions for eternity after death, non-believers don't think they have to answer for any actions after their death. Moral and immoral people are the question. religions that teach community based morals are beneficial to society. And for the record I was brought up to believe in a God, I don't believe in one now, though there could be one or more than one I guess - if there is they certainly don't seem to give a f***.
Guest Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 One of the scariest things about organised religion for me is the power it gives to individuals, and the way they can abuse it. But this is not restricted to religions. All groupings do the same thing. Political, Sporting whatever. I agree with you about moral codes though.
Zingari Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 I reckon the world would be OK if everyone was like FT posters
Guest Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 I reckon the world would be OK if everyone was like FT posters at least they'd speak English (more or less)
1964FOX Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 well we know who will have the last laugh when all you blasphemers are rotting in the flames of hell Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Jon the Hat Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 Extremists who believe in God seem to be dangerous. Extremists who don't believe in God can be just as dangerous. Believers think that they have to answer for their actions for eternity after death, non-believers don't think they have to answer for any actions after their death. Actually I tend to disagree with you there. The belief in a god seems to give people a righteousness that you don't get if you don't believe. And an Atheistic extremist has not organised base to preach at, just a bunch of people with a vast range of thoughts and personal beliefs. One of the scary things about organised religion is the large numbers they can whip into a frenzy about anything with a bit of spin. It gives a limited number a lot of power, see the Republican party for example.
Jon the Hat Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 well we know who will have the last laugh when all you blasphemers are rotting in the flames of hell Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha You should run one of those Hell houses they have in the states. Kids not listening to your bullshit? Asking too many sensible questions? Traumatise them so they fall into line.
MPH Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 Can logic be relative to someones' beliefs? Just saying, like...
1964FOX Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 You should run one of those Hell houses they have in the states. Kids not listening to your bullshit? Asking too many sensible questions? Traumatise them so they fall into line. It's a good idea but i would be a shit to get to matches.
Carl the Llama Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 Can logic be relative to someones' beliefs? Just saying, like... That's brilliant until the implication that dinosaurs didn't exist.
MPH Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 That's brilliant until the implication that dinosaurs didn't exist. I think its the implication that 'self replicating little bits turned into dinosaurs' that it is probably poking fun at... not the existence of dinosaurs...
Jon the Hat Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 I think its the implication that 'self replicating little bits turned into dinosaurs' that it is probably poking fun at... not the existence of dinosaurs... Brilliant. It's not like self replicating little bits (I saw my daughter on a screen when she was 8 cells) turning into babies is a everyday wonder is it.
MPH Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 Brilliant. It's not like self replicating little bits (I saw my daughter on a screen when she was 8 cells) turning into babies is a everyday wonder is it. well the differance there is those cells already have the genetic code to do that... Evolution relies on new information that is not pre-existent in those 'self replicating little bits'
The Doctor Posted 11 November 2012 Author Posted 11 November 2012 Can logic be relative to someones' beliefs? Just saying, like... With the amount of times I've seen that I could build a fairly successful farm (It's a massive strawman), but just as easily:
MPH Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 With the amount of times I've seen that I could build a fairly successful farm (It's a massive strawman), but just as easily: Well this was my point..... Is Logic not relative to ones own beliefs?
The Doctor Posted 11 November 2012 Author Posted 11 November 2012 Well this was my point..... Is Logic not relative to ones own beliefs? Yes and No. People could perhaps argue that, but I'd disagree quite heavily on the topic of religion - the basic laws of logic and the associated fallacies are universal and religion/theism has pretty much entrenched itself in the fallacies - particularly massive ones being arguments from ignorance/incredulity (I don't know/I can't understand how something happened, hence god). It's never really utilised logic into it's armoury.
Jon the Hat Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 well the differance there is those cells already have the genetic code to do that... Evolution relies on new information that is not pre-existent in those 'self replicating little bits' The quote seemed to be mocking the idea of self replicating little bits. Which is clearly stupid given that is what we are made of.
MPH Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 The quote seemed to be mocking the idea of self replicating little bits. Which is clearly stupid given that is what we are made of. it was making fun of those self replicating little bits changing species... which is still up for debate as to wether we came from.. The whole big bang theory is what gets me... there were gases that apparently caused a big explosion... where did those gases come from? how did they get there?
21st Century Fox Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 it was making fun of those self replicating little bits changing species... which is still up for debate as to wether we came from.. The whole big bang theory is what gets me... there were gases that apparently caused a big explosion... where did those gases come from? how did they get there? God enjoys curries, it can be the only explanation.
purpleronnie Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 it was making fun of those self replicating little bits changing species... which is still up for debate as to wether we came from.. The whole big bang theory is what gets me... there were gases that apparently caused a big explosion... where did those gases come from? how did they get there? where did god come from?....like everything the same questions being asked of science could be asked about religion, I'm unsure about it myself. Its hard to prove anything, but the big bang theory could possibly be explained and proven....but you could easily say god created the big bang. The question 'what can cause the big bang to happen' is also pointless as there was no time before it so nothing existed because time didn't exist.
MPH Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 where did god come from?....like everything the same questions being asked of science could be asked about religion, I'm unsure about it myself. Its hard to prove anything, but the big bang theory could possibly be explained and proven....but you could easily say god created the big bang. The question 'what can cause the big bang to happen' is also pointless as there was no time before it so nothing existed because time didn't exist. well this is my hole point im trying to make.... Logic can be relative to your beliefs...
Raw Dykes Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 it was making fun of those self replicating little bits changing species... which is still up for debate as to wether we came from.. The whole big bang theory is what gets me... there were gases that apparently caused a big explosion... where did those gases come from? how did they get there? No. Speciation is not up for debate in the scientific community. It is true that all life on Earth evolved from more primitive organisms. The origin of the universe is a far more difficult question, and there is a lot yet to discover. Science is working on fixing this all the time, while religion sits on its fat sweaty arse, satisfied that the answer it dreamt up thousands of years ago must be the right one, despite there being not a shred of evidence supporting it. well this is my hole point im trying to make.... Logic can be relative to your beliefs... I don't think it can. Logic is universal. If an idea/theory is not truly logical to one person, then it's illogical to everyone. Is there an example of something being logical to one person, but illogical to another?
Carl the Llama Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 s there an example of something being logical to one person, but illogical to another? This whole thread?
Vacamion Posted 11 November 2012 Posted 11 November 2012 it was making fun of those self replicating little bits changing species... which is still up for debate as to wether we came from.. The whole big bang theory is what gets me... there were gases that apparently caused a big explosion... where did those gases come from? how did they get there? This post betrays a staggering lack of comprehension of what science says about the big bang and (separately) the processes involved in evolution. Self replicating bits changing species? Gas? A big explosion? Really? I suppose it's easier to misrepresent the science and then criticize it, than it is to present reasoned arguments against scientific models. Doubly so when those models are built on years of painstaking research in the fields of cosmology, particle physics, biology, genetics, etc, published in peer reviewed scientific publications and when those models predict with stunning accuracy outcomes which can be replicated in experiments.
MPH Posted 12 November 2012 Posted 12 November 2012 No. Speciation is not up for debate in the scientific community. It is true that all life on Earth evolved from more primitive organisms. The origin of the universe is a far more difficult question, and there is a lot yet to discover. Science is working on fixing this all the time, while religion sits on its fat sweaty arse, satisfied that the answer it dreamt up thousands of years ago must be the right one, despite there being not a shred of evidence supporting it. I don't think it can. Logic is universal. If an idea/theory is not truly logical to one person, then it's illogical to everyone. Is there an example of something being logical to one person, but illogical to another? Then why is it called the THEORY of Evolution? and unless anyone was there the supposed billions of years ago to collect the actual evidence we can from pond algae,( i think its claimed) then how can anyone know for SURE? It remains someones opinion. its a belief. Besides there are many debates within the scientific community over it isnt universally agreed that the theory of Evolution explains our existance.. there are molecular geneticists, physicists, geologists, Space Physicists, Geophysicists, biologists, microbiologists, theoretical chemists,plant physiologists, palaentologists, alanytical chemists, biocemists.. you name it just about every scientific speciality has people who believe in a supreme creator. A creator is illogical to you... Evolution is illogical to me. these supposed gases that caused the alleged big bang... where did they come from? to me its illogical that gases that have no origin ( no one can seem to explain where they came from) can be the start of our known universe.... , so that is my example that something thats illogical to one can seem logical to another... I have no desire to enter into yet another foxes talk debate/ thread on religion/ creationism/ Evolution.. my intention was simply to explain to people that it is my opinion that logic is relative to your belief... so i'll bow out now.. the problem with Foxestalk 'discussions' is that they often get very personal and rude... so... if anyone would really like to discuss it then they are welcome to email me about it i'd be happy to discuss things politely with people... i just know that like i said discussions here can soon spiral into a mudslinging competition... Now i have been guilty of it in the past and im not pointing the finger at any one specific in here... I Dont like that i have .. i'm certainly no one special... so im just going to bow out and let the thread go wherever anyone wants to take it..
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