Manwell Pablo Posted 11 December 2012 Posted 11 December 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20672812 Another example of how foriegn players are the scurge of the Premier League. Hopefully this will teach them! On a completley different I've not not seen much from John Terry recently? Any news on when he's back?
Dan Posted 11 December 2012 Posted 11 December 2012 That's fair enough IMO. I know Suarez is a bellend but would he have said what he did if he was taught this? Most likely not.
Manwell Pablo Posted 11 December 2012 Author Posted 11 December 2012 That's fair enough IMO. I know Suarez is a bellend but would he have said what he did if he was taught this? Most likely not. I would say, given that Suarez is the only foreign player to be found guilty of actual racism, compared to every other racist incident recently, which has been caused by English football supporters, John Terry, or local grass root English players. So I'd say it's not fair enough. Try and address the actual problem
Finnegan Posted 11 December 2012 Posted 11 December 2012 I absolutely love the irony of implying only foreigners need lessons in not being racist.
Bugg Posted 11 December 2012 Posted 11 December 2012 I find the suggestion that Suarez wasn't "cuturally aware" rather amusing. He had lived in the Netherlands 5 years prior to joining Liverpool, surely that would be enough time to be aware that calling someone a "Negrito" isn't acceptable.
Mark_w Posted 11 December 2012 Posted 11 December 2012 I find the suggestion that Suarez wasn't "cuturally aware" rather amusing. He had lived in the Netherlands 5 years prior to joining Liverpool, surely that would be enough time to be aware that calling someone a "Negrito" isn't acceptable. Yeah, denying you said it and changing your story later instead of saying that you weren't 'culturally aware' in the first place probably didn't encourage people to belive Suarez's nonsense. Waits for Captain Shrapnel...
Dan Posted 11 December 2012 Posted 11 December 2012 I still don't see what harm this can do. I agree with the others who've said there's an irony though, the fact Terry got half of Suarez's punishment even though cameras proved Terry did it is borderline xenophobia.
Harry - LCFC Posted 11 December 2012 Posted 11 December 2012 I absolutely love the irony of implying only foreigners need lessons in not being racist. Totally agree, "Teaching" foreign players seems to be imply that the FA perceive them to be somewhat immature, seems a little out of touch to me.
Zingari Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 I would say, given that Suarez is the only foreign player to be found guilty of actual racism, compared to every other racist incident recently, which has been caused by English football supporters, John Terry, or local grass root English players. So I'd say it's not fair enough. Try and address the actual problem That's not the implication or reason for doing this is it ? The actual reason is to take away the "cultural difference" excuse, so there can be no ambiguity . If we go to a country with a cultural difference , it would be stupid not to get to know the common courtesies of that culture so as not to inadvertently cause upset. That would not imply that all the locals abide by these same courtesies and are not often guilty of breaking them.
Manwell Pablo Posted 12 December 2012 Author Posted 12 December 2012 I find the suggestion that Suarez wasn't "cuturally aware" rather amusing. He had lived in the Netherlands 5 years prior to joining Liverpool, surely that would be enough time to be aware that calling someone a "Negrito" isn't acceptable. Probably not, your probably allowed to say a small blackman is a small blackman in Holland without being made into the devil just because the Spanish word for black sounds like the English for a black slave.
Manwell Pablo Posted 12 December 2012 Author Posted 12 December 2012 That's not the implication or reason for doing this is it ? The actual reason is to take away the "cultural difference" excuse, so there can be no ambiguity . If we go to a country with a cultural difference , it would be stupid not to get to know the common courtesies of that culture so as not to inadvertently cause upset. That would not imply that all the locals abide by these same courtesies and are not often guilty of breaking them. It's quite obvious being racist is going to cause upset weather you are in England or Deepest darkest Mongolia, nothing cultural about it. Foreign players have been in the Premeir League for years and if you look back through the history of the Premier League most racism is committed by English players. What Suarez did was stupid but it was in retaliation to being called a "dirty South American" or something of equal measure. Which is worse than what he retaliated with in my book, if you understand the way hispanic people look at things like this which would be once someone has insulted you in a certain way it is acceptable to come back with something equally offensive. Putting the silly Mark Clattenberg incident to one side, every other incident involved English players/fans. As I said they should try resolving the actual issue.
Captain... Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 I find the suggestion that Suarez wasn't "cuturally aware" rather amusing. He had lived in the Netherlands 5 years prior to joining Liverpool, surely that would be enough time to be aware that calling someone a "Negrito" isn't acceptable. Have you taken your Dutch Cultural awareness course? If not how do you know that, how do you know he didn't only communicate through a culturally aware translator who understood the nuances of Uruguayan Spanish, and was able to translate it culturally and not just literally. Yeah, denying you said it and changing your story later instead of saying that you weren't 'culturally aware' in the first place probably didn't encourage people to belive Suarez's nonsense. Waits for Captain Shrapnel... Hello He didn't change his story, there was some doubts as to the validity of his story due to inconsistencies with what he said compared to what the video evidence showed, but Suarez always maintained what he said, and that was deemed as not racist, whereas what Evra accuses him of saying is racist, with the lack of any evidence it came down to who was the more reliable witness and they sided with Evra. The FA and Evra both publicly stated the do not think Suarez is a racist, that is all I will say on this matter. Probably not, your probably allowed to say a small blackman is a small blackman in Holland without being made into the devil just because the Spanish word for black sounds like the English for a black slave. What he said.
Captain... Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 As for this change, why not, immigrants to this country have a citizenship test which includes a handbook, that outlines cultural issues, that they need to learn, so why not footballers. Tailoring this learning to the immigrants specific situation is a sensible idea, and should not just be limited to footballers, and black footballers, an Arabic Muslim is going to face different cultural issues to a Black African Christian, likewise Australian immigrants should be aware that we all think they are convicts and are expected to know the recent plot lines of Neighbours and Home and Away.
Zingari Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 It's quite obvious being racist is going to cause upset weather you are in England or Deepest darkest Mongolia, nothing cultural about it. Foreign players have been in the Premeir League for years and if you look back through the history of the Premier League most racism is committed by English players. What Suarez did was stupid but it was in retaliation to being called a "dirty South American" or something of equal measure. Which is worse than what he retaliated with in my book, if you understand the way hispanic people look at things like this which would be once someone has insulted you in a certain way it is acceptable to come back with something equally offensive. Putting the silly Mark Clattenberg incident to one side, every other incident involved English players/fans. As I said they should try resolving the actual issue. That's what they are trying to do , and with great success if you take into consideration how attitudes have changed here over the last 30 odd years . This is just part of the process and in no way implies that foreigners are the main culprits of racism . This is just an awareness that there may maybe differences in tolerable and intolerable verbal terms within many cultures and is aimed at clarifying them. It seems a pretty sensible approach to me .
Manwell Pablo Posted 12 December 2012 Author Posted 12 December 2012 That's what they are trying to do , and with great success if you take into consideration how attitudes have changed here over the last 30 odd years . This is just part of the process and in no way implies that foreigners are the main culprits of racism . This is just an awareness that there may maybe differences in tolerable and intolerable verbal terms within many cultures and is aimed at clarifying them. It seems a pretty sensible approach to me . We've gone backwards in the last 10-5 This is needless, 1000's of foriegn players have played in the Premeir League and bar a couple of freak incidences culutural diffrence has not caused any problems. What is needed is to stamp out football fans making monkey noises throwing coins and singing anti Jewish songs. Want to sort a problem start with your own espeically when they're the main culprits.
AKCJ Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 It's not 'being taught not to be racist'. You can't change someones views. It's just teaching foreigners the etiquette in therms of what's acceptable in British society. I.e. Suarez claimed that what he said to Evra was 'normal' in Uraguay whereas it's bang out of order here. British footballers should know full well what's acceptable and if they continue to be racist on the pitch then they should face the consequences.
Captain... Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 It's not 'being taught not to be racist'. You can't change someones views. It's just teaching foreigners the etiquette in therms of what's acceptable in British society. I.e. Suarez claimed that what he said to Evra was 'normal' in Spanish whereas it's bang out of order when translated directly into English. British footballers should know full well what's acceptable and if they continue to be racist on the pitch then they should face the consequences. Corrected
Guest MattP Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 Maybe it could work both ways and we could get the overseas players to teach the Ferdinands, Beckhams etc how to speak English properly?
AKCJ Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 Corrected Suarez is Uruguayan. I'm not talking about the language he speaks. I'm talking about what he found acceptable back at his home in Uruguay.
Captain... Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 Suarez is Uruguayan. I'm not talking about the language he speaks. I'm talking about what he found acceptable back at his home in Uruguay. It is acceptable in all forms of Spanish, he spoke Spanish, this is not some obscure Uruguayan terminology, and Evra knew that, as he speaks Spanish quite well, but he also knew that it would be very easy to get him in trouble for it. He also knew that he could racially abuse Suarez, calling him a Sudaka, and nobody would do anything as in England that isn't racist. The point I'm making is that what he said* in Spanish isn't racist anywhere, you literally translate it into English and it comes out as racist. *Suarez's version of events not Evra's. What Evra accused him of saying is racist, but could easily have been lost in translation.
AKCJ Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 It is acceptable in all forms of Spanish, he spoke Spanish, this is not some obscure Uruguayan terminology, and Evra knew that, as he speaks Spanish quite well, but he also knew that it would be very easy to get him in trouble for it. He also knew that he could racially abuse Suarez, calling him a Sudaka, and nobody would do anything as in England that isn't racist. The point I'm making is that what he said* in Spanish isn't racist anywhere, you literally translate it into English and it comes out as racist. *Suarez's version of events not Evra's. What Evra accused him of saying is racist, but could easily have been lost in translation. You're not understanding what i'm saying. He grew up in Uraguay surrounded by what he thought were normalities *apparently accorind to his defence* No doubt he knew he was being racist though. Just that he didn't see it as being that big of a deal whereas obviously it is.
Manwell Pablo Posted 12 December 2012 Author Posted 12 December 2012 You're not understanding what i'm saying. He grew up in Uraguay surrounded by what he thought were normalities *apparently accorind to his defence* No doubt he knew he was being racist though. Just that he didn't see it as being that big of a deal whereas obviously it is. No you don't understand, Negrito is a normaility in any form of Spanish, nothing racist about it, it's descriptive. no difference to me or you saying Big Black Bloke and Middle aged tall black guy Negro means black in Spanish, not what it means here. He called Evra a small black man, Patrice Evra is a small black man. Nowhere near as bad as what was said to Suarez reportidly, but as this is England we don't really get racism towards South Americans, it's not really part of our culture. But it's ok we'll teach him that in Britain it's not offensive so someone abuses the shit out of him for being Hispanic it doesn't count so he shouldn't take offence.
Captain... Posted 12 December 2012 Posted 12 December 2012 You're not understanding what i'm saying. He grew up in Uraguay surrounded by what he thought were normalities *apparently accorind to his defence* No doubt he knew he was being racist though. Just that he didn't see it as being that big of a deal whereas obviously it is. Trust me there are plenty of ways to be racist in Spanish, negro/negrito is not one of them.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.