Milwall Away Post Match 1-0 Loss!

[Dan LCFC]

SSL has won you over this season? He's played about 10 minutes.

10 minutes? Does that now mean 5 games where we've won all 5 and conceded just 3?

He looked far better this year than I've ever seen him, I think playing a system that requires more passing and ball retention suits him, as he is a good footballing defender.

[marbelladave]

Prior to yesterday I was pretty sure that I could see what our weaknesses were.

Put simply, when we were in front (sometimes) or put under pressure our back 6 would sit deep, our fullbacks would not get forward and with our wide men and strikers not dropping short to pick up the ball, our defensive players had no easy 'out' ball.

The result was that our passes out of defence were getting longer and longer, ball chipped to our forward players were gobbled up by the opposition defence so we were just giving away possession.

As far as I could see, despite the odd 'schoolboy' error we were pretty solid defensively and we had little problem winning the ball, it was what happened next that was the issue. We need to setup in such a way that we give our defence and midfield players options when put under pressure when in possession.

[unreachable]

Read my post again. I didn't comment on yesterday's game cos I wasn't there. Where did I say we deserved any better? I did and still say we should have beaten Barnsley and but for a penalty we should have had a draw at Leeds.

If you wish to be pedantic about me saying recent points dropped go ahead, but the point of the post was to try and negate some of the idiotic posts berating a player who has played very well recently, not to suggest LCFC deserved more from yesterday.

Sorry for my error in thinking that "recent" included the Millwall match particularly when you are posting in a Millwall thread.

[Dan LCFC]

Prior to yesterday I was pretty sure that I could see what our weaknesses were.

Put simply, when we were in front (sometimes) or put under pressure our back 6 would sit deep, our fullbacks would not get forward and with our wide men and strikers not dropping short to pick up the ball, our defensive players had no easy 'out' ball.

The result was that our passes out of defence were getting longer and longer, ball chipped to our forward players were gobbled up by the opposition defence so we were just giving away possession.

As far as I could see, despite the odd 'schoolboy' error we were pretty solid defensively and we had little problem winning the ball, it was what happened next that was the issue. We need to setup in such a way that we give our defence and midfield players options when put under pressure when in possession.

Fair assessment and I agree. I thought we did a lot of things well but were simply useless up front, forced into hoofball and they dealt with it easily, never been so sure of defeat when going behind in my life.

[Phil Bertstreet]

Sorry for my error in thinking that "recent" included the Millwall match particularly when you are posting in a Millwall thread.

I am replying to people in here are talking about St Leger. He didn't play according to the papers.

For what it's worth I agree with you about points needing to be earned. But, I went to Leeds and thought we deserved a point despite being out-muscled by them. And in my view we did enough to deserve all three points in the Barnsley game (even though we switched off after 15 minutes). I'll have to take your (and everyone else's) word for the Millwall game.

PS And I think we deserved to win at Birmingham for the first half performance alone. And we were very unlucky not to have won at Bolton.....................but we didn't

[accessory]

The usual bunch of happy-clappies have been busy spinning the yarn that Saturday's defeat was a one-off. Sadly, it wasn't.

City have picked up just 11 away points out of 33 available so far this season - a tally lower than at the same stage of the 2007-08 relegation season. And looking at our next six fixtures on the road, it's difficult to see where the next win will come from.

Hull - a side in form, eager to avenge their defeat at the KP and stick it to their ex-boss.

Burnley - another tough trip up north to a boss who turned us over with Watford last season.

Bristol City - scrapping for their lives, as they have been on our last two trips there.

Cardiff - best home record in the division, despite Saturday's slip-up.

Peterborough - like last season, will treat this game as their cup final.

Blackpool - long journey, heavy pitch, tough home side.

To succeed in any of these fixtures the side will need character and mental strength, and as the trips to Leeds and Millwall have shown, we don't have those qualities.

King has gone into winter hibernation in each of the past two seasons and is doing so again now. Drinkwater is in danger of becoming Richie Wellens Mark 2 and the manager must make a choice between Knockaert and Dyer. Playing one unreliable winger is a risk, but playing TWO is suicide. Ben Marshall has little to suggest that he'd be any better.

Questions also have to be asked about the contributions of Konchesky and Nugent, As senior players in a young team, they need to stand up and be counted at grounds like the Den. But neither of them did so, either last season or this. Do they have the attitude or the hunger at this stage of their careers to be successful in this league?

An experienced midfield hardman is an absolute must in January. Palace have two, as do Millwall. Both are more likely to sustain form through the winter than a side widely renowned and mocked for being a soft touch at many of the league's less welcoming venues.

Pearson's tactics, such as they are, will be closely scrutinised over the coming weeks. He still has work to do to convince some sceptics that he's more than just Rob Kelly with a cheque book.

[Father Ted]

The usual bunch of happy-clappies have been busy spinning the yarn that Saturday's defeat was a one-off. Sadly, it wasn't.

City have picked up just 11 away points out of 33 available so far this season - a tally lower than at the same stage of the 2007-08 relegation season. And looking at our next six fixtures on the road, it's difficult to see where the next win will come from.

Hull - a side in form, eager to avenge their defeat at the KP and stick it to their ex-boss.

Burnley - another tough trip up north to a boss who turned us over with Watford last season.

Bristol City - scrapping for their lives, as they have been on our last two trips there.

Cardiff - best home record in the division, despite Saturday's slip-up.

Peterborough - like last season, will treat this game as their cup final.

Blackpool - long journey, heavy pitch, tough home side.

To succeed in any of these fixtures the side will need character and mental strength, and as the trips to Leeds and Millwall have shown, we don't have those qualities.

King has gone into winter hibernation in each of the past two seasons and is doing so again now. Drinkwater is in danger of becoming Richie Wellens Mark 2 and the manager must make a choice between Knockaert and Dyer. Playing one unreliable winger is a risk, but playing TWO is suicide. Ben Marshall has little to suggest that he'd be any better.

Questions also have to be asked about the contributions of Konchesky and Nugent, As senior players in a young team, they need to stand up and be counted at grounds like the Den. But neither of them did so, either last season or this. Do they have the attitude or the hunger at this stage of their careers to be successful in this league?

An experienced midfield hardman is an absolute must in January. Palace have two, as do Millwall. Both are more likely to sustain form through the winter than a side widely renowned and mocked for being a soft touch at many of the league's less welcoming venues.

Pearson's tactics, such as they are, will be closely scrutinised over the coming weeks. He still has work to do to convince some sceptics that he's more than just Rob Kelly with a cheque book.

I think this post is slightly on the pessimists side but I do agree with your points.

On Saturday, we looked shattered. Players looked completely knackered. Vardy did not look himself in comparison to the Vardy that started the season with a buzz. Nugent looked uninterested. King and Drinkwater looked shattered. Dyer lacking that burst of energy he usually possesses. I'm really unsure as to whether this is a fitness issue, a lack of interest or simply a one-off which could have been down to something as odd the time they ate, where they slept, how they travelled down, etc which all have a bearing on how a player feels.

I also feel that the mentality is so different away from home. No player stands up with a pair of bollocks and grabs the game by the scruff of the neck apart from Wes. Players look nervy and lack in confidence. For example, Dyer away from home is a completely different player to the Dyer at home, he always pulls inside and rarely runs at his man.

We seem to have regressed since our away performances earlier in the season at Blackburn, Wolves and Charlton, which despite gaining us little return could quite have easily gained us 7 points if it wasn't for some awful refereeing, poor finishing and lack of luck. Had we got something from these games, we could be putting in different performances away from home but it seems as if getting nothing from these has dented our confidence away from home.

Wow did we miss Waghorn on Saturday, where have his haters gone now? Shittu bullied Vardy and Nugent with ease, an absolute man mountain. I will always look back and think, if only Sven paid Yakubu the 40k that he wanted instead of dilly-dallying to get Beckford on 30k a week...

[_Fatboyslow_]

We need to setup in such a way that we give our defence and midfield players options when put under pressure when in possession.

At last a clear insight into the way forward.

[Father Ted]

Anybody know how long Waghorn is expected to be out for?

[marbelladave]

At last a clear insight into the way forward.

Been saying this, in various ways for a very long time........

When we play well we have runners from fullback and midfield giving our back 4 and central midfielders options and we transition smoothly from defence to attack, we have seen that many times this season, mostly at home.

Away from home this happens less often, I have missed a few games of late, but it was clear on saturday that, after a bright start, we allowed ourselves to be put on the defensive and this had a lot to do with the way we set up.

Contrary to many of the views expressed on here (and elsewhere) I think NFP did try and change our style for this game and it really did not work. We set up with Dyer and Knockaert in deeper roles than usual, ie a conservative approach to make us more 'solid'. Since neither player is great defensively this simply put us on the back foot. Neither made the runs into space to give our defenders a pass but mostly sat back in the more defensive roles they were trying (required?) to play.

With our fullbacks not getting forward as much as usual this left our frontmen as the only option for the ball out of defence and given the gap between them and the player in possession the ball had to be played long. This simply played into the hands of the Millwall defenders and Nugent and Vardey barely got a look in.

[Happy Fox]

Or you could say we didn't test their keeper at all.

[marbelladave]

Or you could say we didn't test their keeper at all.

True......

We need to be more attacking away from home, not less.....

[_Fatboyslow_]

Been saying this, in various ways for a very long time........

Thanks for taking the time post that, it certinly is a better trad than King is crap, DD is the new Wellens, or we need some muscular players to sort things out. Sounds like we need to work on this set up, sounded similar to what we tried at Place or it may be at presant we are not good enough. Do we need a holding midfielder, someone to shake everyone up or a bit of tome to allow the players and system to improve ?

[Happy Fox]

Thanks for taking the time post that, it certinly is a better trad than King is crap, DD is the new Wellens, or we need some muscular players to sort things out. Sounds like we need to work on this set up, sounded similar to what we tried at Place or it may be at presant we are not good enough. Do we need a holding midfielder, someone to shake everyone up or a bit of tome to allow the players and system to improve ?

Yes we do, we cannot rely on King and Drinkwater to produce the goods all the time we need another option to move us upwards.

Wellens days are numbered, likewise Danns imo.

So an experienced midfield general who is a holding midfielder would do the job someone that is going to take authority. is what we are crying out for.

[marbelladave]

Yes we do, we cannot rely on King and Drinkwater to produce the goods all the time we need another option to move us upwards.

Wellens days are numbered, likewise Danns imo.

So an experienced midfield general who is a holding midfielder would do the job someone that is going to take authority. is what we are crying out for.

I agree that we most certainly lack a leader in the midfield, someone to show a bit of 'authority' as you put it.

However it is my view that we need an attacking player rather than a holding player, someone who can play in front of our central pairing and be the extra man when we try and play out of defence. He needs to be the sort of player who is always demanding the ball and dictating our attacking play, our creative fulcrum if you like.

I am quite happy with King and Drinkwater as our sitting/holding players but with no one in front of them in midfield they have a very difficult job when teams target them, a decent attack minded player in front of them would make all the difference.

Earlier this season we saw Knockaert come off his flank and play this role on occasion and to me, he looked pretty good at it (as has Marshall). NFP does not appear to trust him in that role however and seems determined to make him stay out wide, a mistake in my view.

Whether Knockaert (or even Marshall) have the experience to play that pivotal role on a regular basis is open to debate but unless we give it a try we will never know......

[Dan LCFC]

Schmeichel

De Laet - Morgan - Whitbread - Konchesky

King - Drinkwater

Marshall Dyer

Knockaert

Nugent

[_Fatboyslow_]

I think either approach has merits, that is either a more defensive player who can drop off to receive the ball and therefore allow others to make themselves available or are more attacking option, but I do wish there was a bit more go about them, all the hugging and arms around each another is fine as far as it go's. they look a good bunch of pros but they seem to lack that bite, that extra something. Which is why so many fans back Waggers, now there's a thought (maybe a bad one) make him captain and put him in the centre of the team and see what happens

[5waller5]

I was never a big SSL fan but he's won me over this season. I think it's harsh on the likes of Whitbread to use stats to defeat his performances over the basis of 5 games, but that's actually quite alarming.

How we'd have done in those games with Whitbread is something we'll never know but like I say, shows how vital that run was.

I'd agree with that too ... I think that SSL was exactly what Sven signed him as - 3rd choice in a really string battle between 5 good centre backs ..... but he can come in and be a very competent replacement and you don't lose anything by having him or one of the other two .... But this is where we are failing this season for me .... too few options. the squad has always been too small, i said it from the start, and we had a purple patch where the first team were all available and now the season has started to take casualties in form, injury and suspension we are suffering.

It's not rocket science - our squad is short.

Que. The happy clappies asking if I'd rather have 10 more overpriced journeymen screwing the club for their big pay day, like there is no middle ground.

[Guy]

Finally I get to post on here about the match. My PC kept crashing as I was about to post, after I had carefully sat there and composed - happening about three times, oh well!

Even before kick off, there was a real Groundhog Day feel to this match for me. All the team's frailties seem to be unearthed whenever we play at the Den! Even so, I was still hopeful of nicking a draw this time after the improvements made to the team by Pearson and co. after the past two "flattering to deceive" seasons which saw us lose on both occasions to Millwall of course. This latest defeat was somewhat expected but the ineffective manner of the team in defeat was maybe less so. Whether this type of defeat will end up defining our entire season on the road remains a moot point for now though. The defeat last season at Millwall effectively ended our play off hopes, coming when it did - while the season before (if it's any consolation!) saw us then embark on our seven straight league wins under Sven after December 2010's defeat at the Den! With the next seven matches in hand though that looks unlikely to be a repeat! It just seems like Millwall seem to know how to play against us and that we'll play into their hands. They seem to do their homework on us everytime under Jackett!

As widely publicised since, Pearson seems to have got his tactics wrong again with the team formation, the players picked et al - although reading the reports on here from some of players looking tired, disinterested, totally knackered (or all three!) is baffling! Perhaps we missed Waghorn more than we realised, although I get the feeling he'd have possibly struggled in this one too - as it wasn't a passing game we were able to play against such hardy oppostion this time, the ones which he thrives on up front like against Derby. Quite why Futacs was brought on as late as the 70th minute I don't know (half time would've been better Nige in the circumstances!) - and perhaps as much a mystery is why this tall guy isn't starting these sort of more physical battle-orientated games up front for us in the first place! He could easily be the next Ian Marshall for us given half a chance! Nugent looked off colour from what I saw on the box while Vardy sounds as if he's still strruggling to find his feet at this level and shouldn't be starting some of the games he has been of late, best as a sub IMO.

As for the fall out, it's a job to say with Cardiff on the horizon and fresh from their sizeable blip against Peterborough! The big game coming up mirrors last Saturday's at Millwall in some ways - with Cardiff eager to get at us after their defeat - just as Millwall were after their's to lowly Ipswich the weekend before. The discernible difference this time though is that we're at home for this - which could be key for us! Consistency is what we need to gain what everybody wants and what most feel we're about due after the best part of ten years away from the top flight now , namely promotion! Reading showed how to do it last season by winning the league under everybody's noses effectively from a seemingly hopeless position early on. We still don't look capable of doing that and the fact that we blew a real chance on Saturday to maintain the pressure on the four above us sums this up for now - and in turn we suffered a "double whammy" of letting Millwall in to the play offs frame to now be breathing down our necks. I guess it's frustrating but it's never boring!!

[Corky]

He still has work to do to convince some sceptics that he's more than just Rob Kelly with a cheque book.

lol

Well, at least he's used that cheque book quite well.

[Father Ted]

Against Cardiff I'd go with:

Schmeichel

De Laet Morgan Whitbread Schlupp

Marshall - Drinkwater - James - Dyer

Futacs - Nugent

Subs: Logan, Moore, Konchesky, King, Knockaert, Vardy, Stankevicius.

[dynamark]

Bit late on line but did not like the prematch press stuff at all from NP,talking very negatively and went into it looking for a draw,fell behind and a very late plan B.Am I right in thinking casper was banging everything long including pre their goal build up.Giving the ball back very easily.If we were going to use futacs it should have been earlier Millwall put us under some pressure for about 10 minutes before they scored and we just went with it and waited for the ineviatble.NP needs to react earlier.We have to have the extra man in midfield away and let the wide men get further forward to support one up top.bad run over Christmas and the owners wil be well p**sed off.Im fearing the worst TBH.