Alf Bentley Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 Has anyone else had problems with "PRS for Music" as they are now known (formerly the Performing Rights Society)? I'm self-employed and work from home. About a week ago, out of the blue, I received a letter from "PRS for Music" advising me that if I ever played any music for staff or customers, I'd have to pay for a performance licence to cover payment of royalties to artistes - and that they intended to phone me about this. I thought it was a bloody cheek, but ignored it. A few days later, I got a call. Without even asking whether I ever listened to music, the woman started asking me questions about whether customers ever came onto my premises, whether I had staff, whether music was played at work etc. As it happens, I work alone with no staff, customers only rarely come to my home - and when they do, I certainly don't play music for them. I don't even play music when I'm working alone, as it would be a distraction. So, they grudgingly withdrew. However, I found their approach aggressive and insolent beyond belief. I mean, fair enough, if they had some evidence that I was playing music to entertain people without a licence, I could understand it. But they're presumably cold-calling any business number they can find (including individuals working alone at home) just to try to screw some money out of them! Performing Rights Society? ****ing "Protection Racket Society", it felt like! Anyone else had such an approach? Clearly some have, as Wikipedia demonstrates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRS_for_Music I might write them a letter notifying them that if they've failed to pay for any translations, they'll be in breach of the law - and follow it up with a phone call asking them all sorts of questions about when they may have had a translation done and whether they paid for it properly!
Carl the Llama Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 So if you ever play music in your place of work, you have to pay them for it? What the fvck is the CD cost for then?!
linemakers Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 only have to pay if public go into your work and can hear the music,ie pubs, clubs, hair dressers, ect ect. i think your problem Sir Alf is your location, clarendon pub, but got to admit good place to work
Webbo Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 If you own a factory and you have the radio on for your workers you're liable as well.
linemakers Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 so any place where workers, public are and music is played your liable ? what about a works van or company car ?
Rincewind Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 When I worked in a factory there were about 10 radios going. Half on different stations. Buyers used to come in sometimes but the radios were not on for them.
foxoffderby Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 If you admit to playing music at your place of work to these they won't let you go unti you've paid. Pay once and they will ask for payments every year. They are a legit organisation. My advice is if the phone rings at your place of work turn the music off before you answer the phone. Tell these people you don't have any music at your place of work when they ring next.
Rincewind Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 They could send in secret listeners who report back. What about music that is played to you when put on hold during a call?
leicsmac Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 What a bunch of interfering prod-nosed pricks. That's legalised extortion (though how it's legal and above board is beyond me).
foxoffderby Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 They could send in secret listeners who report back. What about music that is played to you when put on hold during a call? Its possible, but I would say they havent got the manpower to check every business in the UK. So they will just harass you over the phone. Like I said when the phone rings to the music off simple.
Alf Bentley Posted 22 January 2013 Author Posted 22 January 2013 So if you ever play music in your place of work, you have to pay them for it? What the fvck is the CD cost for then?! I presume the theory is that the CD cost is for you to listen to it privately, but not to stage a "public performance", which now seems to be being interpreted to mean any premises frequented by customers or members of staff. only have to pay if public go into your work and can hear the music,ie pubs, clubs, hair dressers, ect ect. i think your problem Sir Alf is your location, clarendon pub, but got to admit good place to work Ha! Ha! I don't work at The Clarendon, just spend too much of my free time there! I work alone from home, don't play music for customers (who rarely visit me, anyway - most communications by email/phone) and don't even play it for myself while I'm working, so I'm in the clear, I think - they withdrew, anyway, after I told them I found them to be aggressive money-grubbers. so any place where workers, public are and music is played your liable ? what about a works van or company car ? Read the "Enforcement" section in the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRS_for_Music Even the police seem to be unclear - they seem to be sure that a licence would be needed to play music in a police station (or a shop), but not clear about in a squad car (maybe it would depend whether they'd arrested any "customers"?)
Rincewind Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 I know some people (hard working middle class office workers) that go to pubs to do paper work. Would it be considered as a workplace? Other times in good weather they might sit on park benches near somebody playing a radio. Who pays then? Just realised this is a silly post but too late now.
Webbo Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 I know some people (hard working middle class office workers) that go to pubs to do paper work. Would it be considered as a workplace? Other times in good weather they might sit on park benches near somebody playing a radio. Who pays then? Just realised this is a silly post but too late now. Pubs would have to pay for a PRS license if they played music (which most do in some form) for the benefit of their customers anyway.
Carl the Llama Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 In October 2009, the PRS apologised to a 56-year-old shelf-stacker at a village in Clackmannanshire for pursuing her for singing to herself while stacking shelves Absolute joke.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 Does this mean that if you have a few friends round, you're not allowed to put any music on? Or invite friends round to watch a DVD? It's not the artisits they're protecting, it's the record labels and the suits. I bet most recording artists couldn't give a flying duck.
Alf Bentley Posted 22 January 2013 Author Posted 22 January 2013 Does this mean that if you have a few friends round, you're not allowed to put any music on? Or invite friends round to watch a DVD? It's not the artisits they're protecting, it's the record labels and the suits. I bet most recording artists couldn't give a flying duck. I imagine that would only apply if you had a few friends around to your commercial premises. They didn't contact me as a private individual who might be playing music to others in my home, but because my home is also my business premises....where I might have been (but am not) playing music to others. Enough guff, I'm off to my second home for a pint and to watch a bit of football, hopefully....I'll check that they've got a licence!
Webbo Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 The radio station will have to pay a fee for every record that they play already. If it's a BBC station we are paying this through the license fee. In affect we're paying twice for the same thing.
adam1 Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 Just ignore them. It only applies to commercial premises. If you work from home it only applies whilst you are working (I think). However it is an issue of enforcement. They are not going to be knocking on your front door. If you had a car workshop, hairdressers etc then you would be at risk (albeit small) from someone walking in. They will try and get you to pay up anyway because more people paying means larger revenue. In essence yes it is a racket. Oh and if you want some fun. Next time they call you give them the following line down the telephone: "I'm deaf. Why would I play music?"
Mike Oxlong Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 Oh and if you want some fun. Next time they call you give them the following line down the telephone: "I'm deaf. Why would I play music?" How would you know who was calling and for what purpose if you are deaf? Think they might rumble that you're taking the piss.
Saxondale Posted 22 January 2013 Posted 22 January 2013 They're on commission. And that's not one of those traffic-warden-conspiracy-theory style claims - they actually are.
adam1 Posted 23 January 2013 Posted 23 January 2013 How would you know who was calling and for what purpose if you are deaf? Think they might rumble that you're taking the piss. Thats the point. They still have to be polite to you...
Rincewind Posted 23 January 2013 Posted 23 January 2013 It would be better if they pretended to be deaf too. Hello Hello Sorry I am deaf Sorry I am deaf Who is this? Who are you Hello Hello
ozleicester Posted 23 January 2013 Posted 23 January 2013 Theyve been doing this in OZ for a couple of years. Your CD purchase entitles you to listen to the music for personal enjoyment..., but if you play it in a business where customers listen it becomes a broadcast and you are supplying it for entertainment (which lets be honest is true). Your cd/itunes purchase explicitly denies the right to broadcast, so you must pay a licence to do so. Of course its all wank... but lets hear the anti piracy peeps get their knickers in a bunch about this. As with piracy.. this isnt about the artist getting paid, this is "global corp" greedily grabbing yet more $$.. fvck em all i say
Alf Bentley Posted 23 January 2013 Author Posted 23 January 2013 Theyve been doing this in OZ for a couple of years. Your CD purchase entitles you to listen to the music for personal enjoyment..., but if you play it in a business where customers listen it becomes a broadcast and you are supplying it for entertainment (which lets be honest is true). Your cd/itunes purchase explicitly denies the right to broadcast, so you must pay a licence to do so. Of course its all wank... but lets hear the anti piracy peeps get their knickers in a bunch about this. As with piracy.. this isnt about the artist getting paid, this is "global corp" greedily grabbing yet more $$.. fvck em all i say I completely agree with what you say, ozleicester. Yet, I feel that I'm not getting my point across. We can have all sorts of discussions about piracy etc.: for what it's worth, I'm theoretically in favour of it (introduces people to new music; they'll then buy it or see the band live if they like it enough), but don't use illegal file-sharing sites myself, mainly because I'm just an old git... The important point is: They (PRS) had no reason to think that I owed them any money, but wrote to me, potentially demanding it just in case... and then phoned me up to pursue a demand that they had zero reason to think existed... Do you owe me any money for unpaid translations? Shall I send you a letter or phone you? (Just joking!) Aggressive moneygrubbers!, as I informed them...
ozleicester Posted 23 January 2013 Posted 23 January 2013 I completely agree with what you say, ozleicester. Yet, I feel that I'm not getting my point across. We can have all sorts of discussions about piracy etc.: for what it's worth, I'm theoretically in favour of it (introduces people to new music; they'll then buy it or see the band live if they like it enough), but don't use illegal file-sharing sites myself, mainly because I'm just an old git... The important point is: They (PRS) had no reason to think that I owed them any money, but wrote to me, potentially demanding it just in case... and then phoned me up to pursue a demand that they had zero reason to think existed... Do you owe me any money for unpaid translations? Shall I send you a letter or phone you? (Just joking!) Aggressive moneygrubbers!, as I informed them... They just buy a list of small business's, do a mailout or phone round, or both and hope to harass small business's into to handing over money, that the majority of which never gets anywhere near the artists. Bulliess and one step above crooks in my opinion. I owes you nothin.. nothin i tells ya! http://translate.google.com.au/
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