A taste of things to come

[lavrentis]

Why are we letting more unskilled workers into the country anyway? Just because the EU says we have to?? It just seems insane to me if it's that simple.

We have too yes.

[lavrentis]

If any thread goes on long enough, some idiot will bring Hitler in to it.

Godwin's Law

[Zingari]

Makes you wonder after the rise in UKIP that they're just trying to win lost votes.

Call me a cynic.

Yes, of course.

We can't have politicians actually listening to the will of the people . That would never do in a democracy .

[MooseBreath]

I believe steps have been taken to make it more difficult for scum to pillage the hand out system. Plus our currency has all the strength of a 3-year-old girl at the moment, so maybe a lot of these people will choose another country.

[Zingari]

I call that a master plan moosey .

Make the country so intolerable no fooker wants to come here anymore.

[leicsmac]

I believe steps have been taken to make it more difficult for scum to pillage the hand out system. Plus our currency has all the strength of a 3-year-old girl at the moment, so maybe a lot of these people will choose another country.

Good, hopefully it will encourage more people to get into work. As long as that crackdown affects everyone trying to play the system, regardless of colour or origin, living in this country.

Because being a feckless layabout is most definitely race-independent, which is the point the Daily Mail (and cooling) don't seem to get.

[MooseBreath]

I call that a master plan moosey .

Make the country so intolerable no fooker wants to come here anymore.

Yep, that and the fact that massive devaluation of your currency makes your debts cheaper and gives your export market a boost. Three birds with one stone. Just a shame for anyone living here who has plans to go abroad at any point.

[Webbo]

Because being a feckless layabout is most definitely race-independent, which is the point the Daily Mail (and cooling) don't seem to get.

The Daily Mail never criticises white benefit claimants?I'll remember that.

[leicsmac]

The Daily Mail never criticises white benefit claimants?I'll remember that.

Not nearly as much as benefit claimants of other colours. Going after the white trash claimants tends to be the job of The Sun.

[birdwith2beaksandnofriends]

I'm sure they'll be no worse than most of our workshy, scrounging, pathetic, prideless, entitled BRITISH citizens.

[leicsmac]

I'm sure they'll be no worse than most of our workshy, scrounging, pathetic, prideless, entitled BRITISH citizens.

Perhaps the overuse of adjectives is a bit strong here but I definitely agree with the overall point.

[MooseBreath]

Good, hopefully it will encourage more people to get into work. As long as that crackdown affects everyone trying to play the system, regardless of colour or origin, living in this country.

Because being a feckless layabout is most definitely race-independent, which is the point the Daily Mail (and cooling) don't seem to get.

I might be wrong here but I believe hand outs are restricted for newcomers. Not sure if that fits your criteria for equality, but it makes perfect sense to me given that newcomers have contributed nothing to the system.

Insisting that new immigrants have a certain amount of funds available when they arrive, and then limiting their hand outs to £0 until they've contributed a certain amount into the system seems fair to me.

[birdwith2beaksandnofriends]

What this country needs is quite simply a cull.

[bovril]

The reality is usually somewhere between the Daily Mail scaremonering and nutters mentioning Hitler everytime somebody brings up immigration.

It's reasonable for British citizens to feel nervy about immigration at a time of severe economic crisis, but what the Mail, Sun, etc tend to forget is that it wasn't Eastern European immigrants that got us in this mess. The Conservatives are quite happy to scapegoat benefit seekers (off all nationalities), but they are determined to protect bankers' bonuses.

[leicsmac]

I might be wrong here but I believe hand outs are restricted for newcomers. Not sure if that fits your criteria for equality, but it makes perfect sense to me given that newcomers have contributed nothing to the system.

Insisting that new immigrants have a certain amount of funds available when they arrive, and then limiting their hand outs to £0 until they've contributed a certain amount into the system seems fair to me.

Yeah, agree with that. But also there are many British citizens who have contributed nothing to the system other than being born here (not worked at all in their lives), and their handouts should be restricted in the same way IMO.

Edit: And while you're at reforming the benefit system to save money it might be a good idea to work on saving more by actually collecting the tax from the big companies that owe it?

What this country needs is quite simply a cull.

Nerve gas or nuclear weaponry? And shall we do the Roman thing and draw lots for the decimation?

[MooseBreath]

Perhaps the overuse of adjectives is a bit strong here but I definitely agree with the overall point.

Why though? British benefit claimers at least keep the money in the country, meaning the econony does not suffer and actually benefits moreso than if those people were homeless or dead. Foreigners tend to send money home, which does damage our economy as it becomes a charity, with hard working British tax payers funding lavish Romanian piss ups back in their homeland.

Plus as I said before most British people have contributed to the system. Many of them have also been failed by the British education system and failed by British attempts to get then into work, so in some ways their need for hand outs is 'our' fault and so is much more easily justified.

I sympathise with poor people in other countries but that does not mean i am comfortable with my hard earned tax money being handed to them on a plate. It is not my fault their country has failed them and I don't see why I should have to pay for their mistakes.

[Zingari]

The reality is usually somewhere between the Daily Mail scaremonering and nutters mentioning Hitler everytime somebody brings up immigration.

It's reasonable for British citizens to feel nervy about immigration at a time of severe economic crisis, but what the Mail, Sun, etc tend to forget is that it wasn't Eastern European immigrants that got us in this mess. The Conservatives are quite happy to scapegoat benefit seekers (off all nationalities), but they are determined to protect bankers' bonuses.

Quite so Good point .

But the old saying "When you're in a hole , stop digging" comes to mind regarding our immigration policy .

The housing and jobs crisis isn't going to improve by having more people here .

I agree with you about the bankers .

[leicsmac]

Why though? British benefit claimers at least keep the money in the country, meaning the econony does not suffer and actually benefits moreso than if those people were homeless or dead. Foreigners tend to send money home, which does damage our economy as it becomes a charity, with hard working British tax payers funding lavish Romanian piss ups back in their homeland.

Plus as I said before most British people have contributed to the system. Many of them have also been failed by the British education system and failed by British attempts to get then into work, so in some ways their need for hand outs is 'our' fault and so is much more easily justified.

I sympathise with poor people in other countries but that does not mean i am comfortable with my hard earned tax money being handed to them on a plate. It is not my fault their country has failed them and I don't see why I should have to pay for their mistakes.

When I was working in Korea I sent nearly £20k of money I earned there back here, so I really can't disagree with the idea of other people doing so. If you work in a foreign country and earn your money, you should have the right to do whatever (legal) thing you want with it. As for benefit claimants...would foreign benefit claimants really have enough benefit money left over after living expenses to send home anyway? Surely that's not the point of benefits in the first place?

In this day and age I think every major world economy is linked anyway, as evidenced by an American sub-prime mortgage crisis spreading to affect the entire world. As money is being sent away from the UK, some is coming back here too.

As for your other points I'm in rough agreement but I'd much prefer a mass employment model over paying people to do nothing at all. As I've said before, an economy thrives on money moving, not people being miserly and trying to hold onto it. Get people working (and spending), regardless of where they've come from.

[Rincewind]

What the Mail et al of the 'scrounger' bashers never mentions is that the majority of people claiming benefits are actually working and are on minimum wages or work part time.

[Zingari]

What the Mail et al of the 'scrounger' bashers never mentions is that the majority of people claiming benefits are actually working and are on minimum wages or work part time.

This may be true , but the point is not really about the immigrants themselves . It's about how the politicians over the years have systematically allowed unchecked immigration into the UK at great cost to the low paid, the unemployed and the inadequately housed .

They always manage to get the people fighting amongst ourselves . Could this be the intention?

[I am Rod Hull]

This may be true , but the point is not really about the immigrants themselves . It's about how the politicians over the years have systematically allowed unchecked immigration into the UK at great cost to the low paid, the unemployed and the inadequately housed .

They always manage to get the people fighting amongst ourselves . Could this be the intention?

Divide and conquer.

[MC Prussian]

Surely you've got to approach the issue from a different angle.

First of all, the Roma. They have always moved around a lot and always will. It's in their blood, it's part of their culture. Also, they're notorious for caring little about working in the classic system.

Secondly, how about thinking about what freedom of movement in between EU countries has done to all of us?

Even here in Switzerland, a major discussion has evolved revolving about the influx of working people from outside the country, lowering the average income, putting the Swiss under pressure and resulting in downsizing and layoffs. It's a global challenge and it affects us all.

Thirdly, don't you think if the Roma from Romania or Bulgaria were to work in their "home" countries for a decent wage, they'd move to places like Duisburg?

In the end, it's the economy, stupid.

And it doesn't help to use the Roma, who have always been on the move, as an example for a mass threat by people from Eastern Europe.

It's all but another attempt at scare-mongering the uneducated or simple-minded.

[z-layrex]

What the Mail et al of the 'scrounger' bashers never mentions is that the majority of people claiming benefits are actually working and are on minimum wages or work part time.

They should have tried harder in school instead of slacking off.

[leicsmac]

They should have tried harder in school instead of slacking off.

True, or perhaps there's a problem with the 'minimum wage' when you can't live off it and need benefits to top it up. I always thought the minimum wage was meant to represent a 'living' wage?

[Rincewind]

There are many highly qualified people in low paid jobs having been made redundant or failing to get a job for what they have qualified for after leaving university. Isn't it the 'scrounger' bashers the ones saying that the unemployed should take any job to get into work and off JSA?