Fox92 Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 http://news.sky.com/story/1136484/jon-venables-bulger-killer-freed-from-prison Jon Venables, one of the killers of two-year-old James Bulger, has been freed from prison for the second time. Venables was freed from prison after being locked up in 2010 for downloading images of child abuse after previously serving eight years for murdering two-year-old James in Liverpool in 1993.
Nick Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 This is a good read with parallels to the discussion:
DennisNedry Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 It's an absolute scandal how much money has been wasted giving this utter turd of a human being a new identity. Sickening.
MikeyT Posted 3 September 2013 Author Posted 3 September 2013 I don't get angry over many things, but this case really has me seething. Always has. They have constantly re-offended. They should not be deemed fit to breathe the same air as the rest of normal society. They should be locked up for the rest of their lives.
Guest MattP Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 Feel sorry for the poor kid who will be his next victim so he can have another chance at life. Sickening.
Captain... Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 A few things to point out. Firstly the 250,000 is kind of irrelevant when you consider how much it will cost to keep him in jail for the rest of his life. Secondly the people that made this decision have a lot more training and experience and knowledge of the case and of Venables than anyone on here, me included so I will accept that they are in a much better position than me to make this decision, and I am thankful I will never be in a position where I have to.
Guest MattP Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 A few things to point out. Firstly the 250,000 is kind of irrelevant when you consider how much it will cost to keep him in jail for the rest of his life. Secondly the people that made this decision have a lot more training and experience and knowledge of the case and of Venables than anyone on here, me included so I will accept that they are in a much better position than me to make this decision, and I am thankful I will never be in a position where I have to. And changed their mind within six months which shows just how confident they are in their decision. I often wonder about some of the people on these parole boards when you see half these criminals back in court and what they have done previous. Get the feeling it's the Rincewinds of this world sat on them trying to see the good in everyone rather than taking care of the law abiding society. Hope I'm wrong and we see the last of this guy now, I won't be though. Hopefully someone out there can do us a favour and make sure he never gets a chance to hurt or get his sexual kicks from a child again.
The God Emperor Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 I often wonder about some of the people on these parole boards when you see half these criminals back in court and what they have done previous. Get the feeling it's the Rincewinds of this world sat on them trying to see the good in everyone rather than taking care of the law abiding society. Hope I'm wrong and we see the last of this guy now, I won't be though. Hopefully someone out there can do us a favour and make sure he never gets a chance to hurt or get his sexual kicks from a child again. "Rorshach's journal. October 12th, 1985: Dog carcass in alley this morning. Tire tread on burst stomach. The city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "save us!" and I will look down and whisper "no". They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of good men like my father, or president Truman. Decent men who believed in a day's work for a day's pay. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipe until it was too late. Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole world stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those liberals and intellectuals and smooth talkers...and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say." your post made me think of that quote for some reason
Rincewind Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 I#m not sure he should have been released but it will be tough for him. Any prisoner released will have it tough if they have had no help to rehabilitate whilst inside. About 75% of offenders have below average IQ;s. The waiting list for education programmes inside is sometimes over a year so short sentences has little impact on reforming. Parole offices can vary, some help in finding a place to stay work etc. others do nothing and sit back taking wages that are for helping offenders when released. Someone that I know helped out with a prison magazine when inside, was given encouragement inside and by his parole officer and now is editor of a magazine dealing with ex-offenders and prison reform. The work he does is supported by the HO and the prison service and they are working together. He read out some poetry from prisoners last week on raDNO. Powerful stuff.
Vlad the Fox Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 And changed their mind within six months which shows just how confident they are in their decision. I often wonder about some of the people on these parole boards when you see half these criminals back in court and what they have done previous. Get the feeling it's the Rincewinds of this world sat on them trying to see the good in everyone rather than taking care of the law abiding society. Hope I'm wrong and we see the last of this guy now, I won't be though. Hopefully someone out there can do us a favour and make sure he never gets a chance to hurt or get his sexual kicks from a child again. I know someone who works in the courts in Leicester, they say that you get the same low life in reoffending week after week, followed by their social workers claiming that they're 'good really' and other lame excuses. They should get a very limited number of chances before its deemed that they're no benefit to society and locked up for a long time.
leicsmac Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 I know someone who works in the courts in Leicester, they say that you get the same low life in reoffending week after week, followed by their social workers claiming that they're 'good really' and other lame excuses. They should get a very limited number of chances before its deemed that they're no benefit to society and locked up for a long time. I'd actually prefer rehabilitation, even of the strongest forced psychological kind, over locking someone up at taxpayer expense for a long time. If it could be proven to work.
Fox92 Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 I'd actually prefer rehabilitation, even of the strongest forced psychological kind, over locking someone up at taxpayer expense for a long time. If it could be proven to work. But wouldn't that cost as well? Surely rehab might not always work? If a person is messed up then that's it, isn't it? I mean, I hate all this 'video games is to blame' because someone still has to have that trigger in their mind imo. I'm no expert, but I don't think people like Venables should be allowed back into society. How many identity changes as he had? 3 or 4? All at 250k each!?
leicsmac Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 But wouldn't that cost as well? Surely rehab might not always work? If a person is messed up then that's it, isn't it? I mean, I hate all this 'video games is to blame' because someone still has to have that trigger in their mind imo. I'm no expert, but I don't think people like Venables should be allowed back into society. How many identity changes as he had? 3 or 4? All at 250k each!? Probably not cost as much as life imprisonment. And if it doesn't work that option is still there. Yeah, that's why I added the qualifier that it would have to be proven to work. Evidently the normal methods of rehab aren't working for Venables so I think stronger ones should be considered. I'm sure there are such measures available. When you have a truly dangerous person who is clearly a danger to the community and without remorse like he is, from what I can tell you've got three options: serious psychiatric rehabilitation (I hesitate before using the term 'alteration'), locking him up permanently, or executing him. I think the first of those three would be better for the community in general and the individual involved than the last two - like I said, provided it works.
Vlad the Fox Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 I'd actually prefer rehabilitation, even of the strongest forced psychological kind, over locking someone up at taxpayer expense for a long time. If it could be proven to work. This is a contradiction I have with myself as I do tend to agree with your post but there has to be a point when in some cases people just aren't going to be rehabilitated. A lot of these people are on a downward spiral of crime, prison, crime, prison, its a way of life and getting caught and sent down is a small pitfall of their criminal activity. Others are gradually getting into more serious crime, such as one case were someone started off shoplifting, after numerous trips to the courts for various other crimes and with plenty of support given to help him turn way from crime he shoved an old lady over in Vicky park snatching her bag. Do you keep rehabilitating these people or should we forget them and concentrate harder on getting people before they slip into this way of life.
MooseBreath Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 Prison work camps. Get them manufacturing shed loads of cheap consumer crap which we would otherwise source from China or wherever. Start sentencing people to years of labour instead of years of chilling out. That way the prison makes a bit of money back, maybe even a profit, the prisoners learn work skills, years of labour is much more of a deterrent in the first place, and no British jobs are lost because we only get them doing stuff that is currently done by peasant labour abroad. Win/win/win/win imho.
leicsmac Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 This is a contradiction I have with myself as I do tend to agree with your post but there has to be a point when in some cases people just aren't going to be rehabilitated. A lot of these people are on a downward spiral of crime, prison, crime, prison, its a way of life and getting caught and sent down is a small pitfall of their criminal activity. Others are gradually getting into more serious crime, such as one case were someone started off shoplifting, after numerous trips to the courts for various other crimes and with plenty of support given to help him turn way from crime he shoved an old lady over in Vicky park snatching her bag. Do you keep rehabilitating these people or should we forget them and concentrate harder on getting people before they slip into this way of life. That's why I suggest strong rehabilitation. If offenders repeat and don't look like breaking the cycle, then you use strong psychological treatments on them to attempt to stop them reoffending and change their minds (not in the literal sense, mind you). I'm sure these kinds of techniques are well known in certain specialist areas of our secret services. I do agree education and prevention is part of the answer too. Prison work camps. Get them manufacturing shed loads of cheap consumer crap which we would otherwise source from China or wherever. Start sentencing people to years of labour instead of years of chilling out. That way the prison makes a bit of money back, maybe even a profit, the prisoners learn work skills, years of labour is much more of a deterrent in the first place, and no British jobs are lost because we only get them doing stuff that is currently done by peasant labour abroad. Win/win/win/win imho. The only problem I can see with this is it takes jobs from other people in the country, but as you said these jobs aren't available to anyone in the country anyway so it seems to be fine. Would still prefer the solution above to it but it's a good substitute for people who clearly can't be rehabbed. Edit: Don't long term lags work making stuff anyway? Or have I got that wrong?
Rincewind Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 This is the bloke I mentioned in a previous post. read how and what is being done. No need for a chaing gang if this works. Those with experience of being prisoners and working with them are the best people to ask. http://insidenout.org/
MooseBreath Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 Yeah let's just ask prisoners what they want. They make such good decisions afterall. Why not just let them set their own sentences? I'm sure they would do whatever is best for society.
Guest MattP Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 I know someone who works in the courts in Leicester, they say that you get the same low life in reoffending week after week, followed by their social workers claiming that they're 'good really' and other lame excuses. They should get a very limited number of chances before its deemed that they're no benefit to society and locked up for a long time. These are the first ones that would be put down if I had my way, absolutely useless, a stain on society. If they spent half as much time making sure kids like Daniel Pelka/Baby P weren't being violently abused instead of being up in court defending low life scum we might not have young children going through painful deaths at the hands of people incapable of being parents. As long as they make sure they aren't being adopted by UKIP supporters though. Absolutely sickening. This is the bloke I mentioned in a previous post. read how and what is being done. No need for a chaing gang if this works. Those with experience of being prisoners and working with them are the best people to ask. http://insidenout.org/ This is where I swear you are on the wind up sometimes. What right do they have to be asked about anything, they are incapable of managing to get through life without being such a danger to society or themselves that they have to be locked in a cage for a specific time period. Down and Out, Inside 'n' Out, what the fcuk is next that the taxpayer/lottery player is ready to fund? Coming Out? Savilled Out? Out of Benefits? Cameron Out? Bedroom Taxed Out?
Rincewind Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 Have you read any of the site? You are so deep in your views that you cannot accept anything oyher. I have already said that the editor was an ex-offender. Now he is running a business which includes contact and interaction with high officials within the criminal justice system including wardens and probation officers.to read what is on It will only take a short time the site. Contrary to what you say I believe it is you that is on a wind up now.
Guest MattP Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 Have you read any of the site? You are so deep in your views that you cannot accept anything oyher. I have already said that the editor was an ex-offender. Now he is running a business which includes contact and interaction with high officials within the criminal justice system including wardens and probation officers.to read what is on It will only take a short time the site. Contrary to what you say I believe it is you that is on a wind up now. Yes, there is hardly anything on it and the page doesn't even load properly on the site. I can see a few old reports with appalling grammar and a small 'about us' section that says I need to request a list of supporters. Why are they partnered with "Gender Matters?" From the site... People who consider themselves to be Trans: Transgender, Gender Variant, Gender Queer, Cross Dresser, Transvestite or any other non-standard gender identity What on earth has prison got to do with this? And more to the point this has nothing to do with Thompson or Venables.
Rincewind Posted 3 September 2013 Posted 3 September 2013 OK II am outa here.Play your games with yourself.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 4 September 2013 Posted 4 September 2013 He should have been left to rot in prison. Evil filth.
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