Overrating

[Happy Fox]

The Thais are ambitious can see a Southampton approach happening.

[artursteppe]

I just do not understand what this is all about. We are joint top. The three teams at the top are all comparable to the teams that got promoted last season. Only one of those teams is in the relegation zone in the Prem.

Leicester, QPR, and Burnley probably have more points than Palace, Hull and Cardiff had at this time last season.

I think the current top three are actually better than the three teams that went up.

So what's the problem?

 

The three teams that go up will strengthen their squads before next season starts and will probably be better than Cardiff, Hull and Palace are now.

[Dan]

The Thais are ambitious can see a Southampton approach happening.

 

As long as we don't do a QPR/Palace. I'd rather go down than try any of the shit they did.

 

Thankfully we've got a manager who's more likely to go for the Cardiff approach. Should we go up, I think he'd make about 6 signings. The vital thing is retaining the team ethic - don't just scrap it for the sake of 'names', it didn't work three years ago and it won't work now.

[Guest MattP]

The Thais are ambitious can see a Southampton approach happening.

 

Possible.

 

I hope they realise that for one Southampton who has tried that ten have failed though.

 

Can see it already now from our fans, we need to 'do a Southampton' when moaning about being sat in 14th.

[Fox92]

Kasper, for me.

 

He's been good for us and we probably can't get a better goalkeeper at this level, but I don't agree when people say 'he should be in the Premier League'. There are goalkeepers around that are just as good as him imo, like Steele from Barnsley... Kasper is now 26(?) and has only played regular for Leicester, Leeds and Notts County.

[hackneyfox]

6 signings and we'll struggle.

 

The top 10 was alluding to the MON years and whether NFP was as good thread, and was very tongue in cheek.

[Guest MattP]

6 signings and we'll struggle.

 

The top 10 was alluding to the MON years and whether NFP was as good thread, and was very tongue in cheek.

 

Different times though as well, football has moved on now. It's a million times harder to find players thanks to Youtube and fans forums etc, had that all been around in the mid 90's I doubt we would have found Elliott, Izzet, Lennon etc so cheap.

 

Look at the money MON spent at Sunderland and he couldn't get them out of the relegation area half the time.

 

How can you put a number on signings and equate it to success? Surely it depends on quality of signings rather than a number?

 

If we made 6 signings and they were Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldo, Lahm and Bale I don't think we'd struggle.

 

(and yes thats tongue in cheek as well, but look at Soton, 2/3 high class signings rather than 10/12 average signings have been the difference between what could be top 6 and bottom 6.

[Dan]

6 signings and we'll struggle.

 

The top 10 was alluding to the MON years and whether NFP was as good thread, and was very tongue in cheek.

 

Will we though? If we currently played Palace or Sunderland I'd make us favourites. I think we're better than both at the minute.

 

6 signings as well as hanging onto our best players? That isn't so ridiculous. If we buy intelligently we'd stay up. The league is over-rated and full of sides who are obsessed with 'name' players, throwing everything they can for the short-term 'success' of staying in the league.

 

Buy intelligently to improve what we've already worked on and we'd be fine. We didn't exactly fluke it past Fulham and we made a few changes for that too.

[Guest Col city fan]

Don't estimate the Prem hackney, it ain't all that.

Some pretty average squads up there now, of course we'd get battered by the top sides but as the Fulham game showed the bottom eight or so are nothing special.

4\5 quality additions and I think we would be ok.

Even Palace are still in touch and their squad its woeful. Hull aren't much better and they have a real chance of surviving.

I usually agree with you Matt but never underestimate the Prem. It's not about isolated games that we can win (eg. Fulham in the cup), it's about the long-term pressure that the Premiership brings. If we didn't assemble a good enough squad from the start, all it needs is a couple of big losses and you're quickly on a downward spiral. Lose at home to say Hull, then to have a run of Man Utd, Chelsea and Man City in the next three games, you quickly find you're fooked.

The Prem IS all that. Look at Spurs at the weekend. A squad full of superstars, expensively assembled, goes to Man City and get spanked 6 naught.

This is why the Prem is the toughest division in the world. Over the course of the season, if you're not up to the challenge, you're straight back down.

[Guest MattP]

I usually agree with you Matt but never underestimate the Prem. It's not about isolated games that we can win (eg. Fulham in the cup), it's about the long-term pressure that the Premiership brings. If we didn't assemble a good enough squad from the start, all it needs is a couple of big losses and you're quickly on a downward spiral. Lose at home to say Hull, then to have a run of Man Utd, Chelsea and Man City in the next three games, you quickly find you're fooked.

The Prem IS all that. Look at Spurs at the weekend. A squad full of superstars, expensively assembled, goes to Man City and get spanked 6 naught.

This is why the Prem is the toughest division in the world. Over the course of the season, if you're not up to the challenge, you're straight back down.

 

But don't over-estimate it either. Of course it's about a squad but some pretty average ones have stayed up over the last few years, the PL isn't what it was when we had the days of that West Ham side going down with a team full of quality players.

 

The Sunderland side that stayed up last year was appalling and we appear to have moved into times now where a point a game will keep you up rather than 44/45. Norwich had a appalling run of form in the second half of the season and still managed to stay up comfortably in the end. Reading didn't finish bottom and have pretty much the same squad this year and we look to have a far better one than that already.

 

Dont agree its the toughest anymore either, Spain has quality oozing through it, the Villarreal and Depor sides that went down over the last few years were full of internationals and would have easily stayed up over here imo.

[Guest Col city fan]

But don't over-estimate it either. Of course it's about a squad but some pretty average ones have stayed up over the last few years, the PL isn't what it was when we had the days of that West Ham side going down with a team full of quality players.

The Sunderland side that stayed up last year was appalling and we appear to have moved into times now where a point a game will keep you up rather than 44/45. Norwich had a appalling run of form in the second half of the season and still managed to stay up comfortably in the end. Reading didn't finish bottom and have pretty much the same squad this year and we look to have a far better one than that already.

Dont agree its the toughest anymore either, Spain has quality oozing through it, the Villarreal and Depor sides that went down over the last few years were full of internationals and would have easily stayed up over here imo.

You must be one of the only people to consider the Spanish league tougher than the Premiership.

In no other league could you have a run of games like Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, on the bounce. Added to that are the clubs fighting for their survival. Do you think this season it would be easy for City (even with a few additions) to go away to West Ham, Cardiff, Hull and even Crystal Palace and come away with a good result?

That's not forgetting sides like Southampton and West Brom who are MUCH better than we are.

Nah, you're wrong on this one.

If we gain promotion this season we would have to have a BIG rethink of the existing squad to cut the mustard, IMO. This is a squad, remember, who have already lost to Charlton and Doncaster away this season.

The biggest changes, I think, would have to be in the midfield. Over the course of a full Prem season, King and Drinkwater would be mullered.

[Guest MattP]

You must be one of the only people to consider the Spanish league tougher than the Premiership.

In no other league could you have a run of games like Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, on the bounce. Added to that are the clubs fighting for their survival. Do you think this season it would be easy for City (even with a few additions) to go away to West Ham, Cardiff, Hull and even Crystal Palace and come away with a good result?

That's not forgetting sides like Southampton and West Brom who are MUCH better than we are.

Nah, you're wrong on this one.

If we gain promotion this season we would have to have a BIG rethink of the existing squad to cut the mustard, IMO. This is a squad, remember, who have already lost to Charlton and Doncaster away this season.

The biggest changes, I think, would have to be in the midfield. Over the course of a full Prem season, King and Drinkwater would be mullered.

 

I very much doubt that and I'd only be interested in the opinions of people who watch a lot of both if they did. Did you see the Villarreal side that got relegated the season before last? There are three Spanish sides shorter in the betting for Champions League than any English side. The Barca B side that contained Thiago, Pedro, Barata, Tello, Busquets, Bojan finished half way up the second division.

 

I think we'd give any of West Ham, Cardiff, Hull etc a decent run away from home at the minute.

 

We need to strengthen if we go up of course, but the thought we would need a whole new squad is way off the mark, all the sides who have gone up and stayed up have kept a solid squad and only made a fee additions each year.

 

How many people last year would have forseen Cardiff midfield of Whittingham, Cowie, Medal and Jordan Mutch of completely outplaying Man Utd's one like they did on Sunday?

[Guest Col city fan]

I very much doubt that and I'd only be interested in the opinions of people who watch a lot of both if they did. Did you see the Villarreal side that got relegated the season before last? There are three Spanish sides shorter in the betting for Champions League than any English side. The Barca B side that contained Thiago, Pedro, Barata, Tello, Busquets, Bojan finished half way up the second division.

I think we'd give any of West Ham, Cardiff, Hull etc a decent run away from home at the minute.

We need to strengthen if we go up of course, but the thought we would need a whole new squad is way off the mark, all the sides who have gone up and stayed up have kept a solid squad and only made a fee additions each year.

How many people last year would have forseen Cardiff midfield of Whittingham, Cowie, Medal and Jordan Mutch of completely outplaying Man Utd's one like they did on Sunday?

Yes, as I said, they will do ok in isolated games.

Over the longer-term they will be ground-down and exposed if they are not good enough.

We'll have to agree to differ. IMO our current squad would get pretty much tonked over the course of a season.

The sides that have gone up recently (Hull, Cardiff, Palace) had better squads than we had. They got promoted, we didn't. Hull and Palace have added players, and are still struggling.

[The Horse's Mouth]

Premiership is more physical isn't it lads? I'd like to see Messi do what he does on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke.

[ealingfox]

If the La Liga and PL teams did a place-for-place contest (ie Barca v Arsenal, Atleti v Liverpool, Real v Chelsea and so on) La Liga would win comfortably. That for me makes La Liga stronger.

[foxfanazer]

If the La Liga and PL teams did a place-for-place contest (ie Barca v Arsenal, Atleti v Liverpool, Real v Chelsea and so on) La Liga would win comfortably. That for me makes La Liga stronger.

Maybe at the top of La liga and the prem, La liga would win but get to fifth place down and the Prem would kill it imo. Swansea v Valencia being a prime example

[Guest MattP]

Maybe at the top of La liga and the prem, La liga would win but get to fifth place down and the Prem would kill it imo. Swansea v Valencia being a prime example

 

Bilbao v Man U a couple of years back? Bilbao were about 14th and destroyed them both legs. Could you imagine Stoke playing Barcelona home and away?

 

Harsh to judge it on Valencia v Swansea, the Spanish were down to ten men ten minutes into the match.

 

As Ealing says I'm certain Spain would come out on top comfortably were it place v place.

[The Horse's Mouth]

Valencia are superior to Swansea.

[ealingfox]

Maybe at the top of La liga and the prem, La liga would win but get to fifth place down and the Prem would kill it imo. Swansea v Valencia being a prime example

 

Where did Swansea's manager (and his philosophy and a fair few of his players to boot) come from then?

 

The bottom half of the Prem is very average. I believe a Malaga, Sevilla or Espanyol would run rings round West Brom, Stoke and even Villa or Newcastle..

[Guest MattP]

Where did Swansea's manager (and his philosophy and a fair few of his players to boot) come from then?

 

The bottom half of the Prem is very average. I believe a Malaga, Sevilla or Espanyol would run rings round West Brom, Stoke and even Villa or Newcastle..

 

Negredo and Navas were good players in a Spanish mid table side.

 

They now exceptional players in argubly Britain's best side.

[foxfanazer]

Bilbao v Man U a couple of years back? Bilbao were about 14th and destroyed them both legs. Could you imagine Stoke playing Barcelona home and away?

Harsh to judge it on Valencia v Swansea, the Spanish were down to ten men ten minutes into the match.

As Ealing says I'm certain Spain would come out on top comfortably were it place v place.

I'd say......

Arsenal v Barca (Barca win)

Liverpool v Ath Madrid (Pretty even, Madrid edge it)

Chelsea v Real Madrid (Madrid most of the time, Chelsea quite capable though)

Man city v Villareal (man city)

Southampton v Bilbao (I'd edge it to Southampton)

United v Sociedad (United 8/10 times )

Everton v Getafe (Everton)

Newcastle v Sevilla (close one, can't choose)

Spurs v Espanyol (Spurs)

Swansea v Elche (Swansea)

West Brom v Valencia (Valencia maybe?)

Villa v Granada (Villa)

Hull v Levante (Levante but not by far)

Stoke v Osasuna (Stoke, if it was played on a cold Tuesday night

Cardiff v Malaga (Malaga)

Norwich v Celta vigo (Norwich)

West ham v Valladolid A (Wham)

Palace v Almeria (draw )

Fulham v Vallecanno (Fulham)

Sunderland v Betis (Sunderland)

Well you did ask......

[Guest MattP]

I'd say......

Liverpool v Ath Madrid (Pretty even, Madrid edge it)

Villa v Granada (Villa)

Stoke v Osasuna (Stoke, if it was played on a cold Tuesday night

Norwich v Celta vigo (Norwich)

Palace v Almeria (draw )

Sunderland v Betis (Sunderland)

 

 

Agree with all apart from those

 

Ath Madrid have just cruised through a Champions League Group, beat Real Madrid on the last three occasions, are a point off Barcelona in November and recently won two UEFA cups, I'm not having that on a par with Liverpool!

[ealingfox]

How come all the English teams get to play at home?    Would have to be two-legged affairs.

 

Then again it proves its just a matter of opinion in the end, in my opinion theres no way Fulham and Sunderland would beat Betis and Vallecano, and Sevilla would beat Newcastle.

 

Also the current tables are arguably still slightly embryonic, you'd be better off doing it by end-of-season places.

[foxfanazer]

Agree with all apart from those

Ath Madrid have just cruised through a Champions League Group, beat Real Madrid on the last three occasions, are a point off Barcelona in November and recently won two UEFA cups, I'm not having that on a par with Liverpool!

I gave it to Madrid!

The Stoke one was tongue in cheek and I didn't have a clue about the palace game

How come all the English teams get to play at home? Would have to be two-legged affairs.

Then again it proves its just a matter of opinion in the end, in my opinion theres no way Fulham and Sunderland would beat Betis and Vallecano, and Sevilla would beat Newcastle.

Also the current tables are arguably still slightly embryonic, you'd be better off doing it by end-of-season places.

Good points

[LCFC FOX]

Vitor