United fans finding out what its like to be "like everyone else".

[Captain...]

It's the comments about Moyes being cut from the same cloth as Fergie that is most baffling. Ferguson achieved miracles with Aberdeen and took them to the top level, winning a European trophy. Moyes was at a huge club in Everton and showed fear in going to the big clubs. Moyes didn't win a trophy either. Not saying he did a bad job but was it amazing also?

 

I did laugh when Moyes was trying to have a dig at Martinez before the match, but saying they players were so good they could more or less manage themselves, implying that he was responsible for any success Everton were having. It kind of read like he didn't actually do anything to manage them when he was in charge.

 

Martinez has done a good job so far, and done what Moyes never could and win at Old Trafford, that is going to sting.

[Guest MattP]

On a side note, how good is Deulofeu?! I haven't seen a player glide past so many others at such pace so effortlessly in a while. Absolute quality player. The English need to have a serious look at La Masia because that alone is producing more absolute quality than our whole nation.

Aye, such as last season when he went down

If he was in an English academy he would have been booted out aged 14 and told football isn't for him as he is to small as he is taken off to throw on some 6ft 4 Adeola Akinfenwa type to add some power and presence.

[Dan]

If he was in an English academy he would have been booted out aged 14 and told football isn't for him as he is to small as he is taken off to throw on some 6ft 4 Adeola Akinfenwa type to add some power and presence.

 

So sad yet so true. You only have to listen to 'experts' every week to hear how much ridiculous emphasis is placed on strength and physicality rather than actual ability to play football. Embarrassing, the root of all of England's problems and we can build as many facilities as we want, with that mentality we'll continue to not come close to winning anything.

[Guest MattP]

Spot on.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

I've never really understood why other teams apart from Liverpool/Leeds/Manchester City have so much hatred for Manchester United. It's not even like their fans are that big headed about the fact they have been the best team on a consistent basis for the past 20 years. People blurt on about teams being TinPot but I actually think having a hatred for a team and set of fans that genuinely don't give a shit back is TinPot. I envy the fact that Manchester United are so good and that their fans have it easy 90% of the time, but for fans of clubs that have no rivalry with them to say they hate them is pretty sad to be honest. I can't stand for instance when people start cheering at the end of our home games when United have had a shit result but don't do the same for Chelsea (who we have a mutual hatred with). 

 

Because the majority of their fans are gloryhunters who don't come from anywhere near Manchester.

[Donut]

So sad yet so true. You only have to listen to 'experts' every week to hear how much ridiculous emphasis is placed on strength and physicality rather than actual ability to play football. Embarrassing, the root of all of England's problems and we can build as many facilities as we want, with that mentality we'll continue to not come close to winning anything.

 

100% correct

[Donut]

I can honestly say ive met some really good United fans, i know season ticket holders at Old Trafford and theyre just ''normal'' football fans that happen to have moved down here and support a successful club.

 

Of course, there is an arrogant armchair base too, but id say that was probably just as bad, if not worse with a club like Liverpool, certainly from around here.

 

Man Utd grew organically from the beginning of Ferguson's era too in fairness, have always had a pro-active interest in bringing through youth team players and have brought through key players into the England set up.

 

Cant say i really resent their success. Just have no particular feelings towards their club.

[Dan]

I don't think Man Utd armchairs are any worse than the usual. All armchairs aren't to be taken seriously (in a footballing way anyway) and that's regardless of who they 'support'. They're casual followers. I'm about 8 years past being wound up by any of them. The worst thing they do in my opinion is ensure Leicester fail to hit their potential crowds.

 

I definitely respect them for their youth development more than I do the other sides but even they're becoming a bit questionable nowadays, I can't remember the last top player they brought through.

 

It's natural to want to get one over them though. They're the biggest and best side and have been ever since I've followed football. That isn't hatred or resentment either.

[Kitchandro]

When we were in the Premiership Chelsea was seen as one of the biggest games of the season partly because of the history between the sets of fans but also because we were about the same level on the pitch. Even now Chelsea fans don't like us and openly admit that a game between us and them means more than most.

 

 

Are you talking about all the grief that Beckham was getting after the World Cup in 98? If so I remember they started the whole Argentina thing as a way to support Beckham who copped an enormous amount of abuse for it. They also don't turn up in numbers to support England because everyone "hates" them for being so successful on the pitch and to be fair not many can afford it since they are usually travelling around Europe every year to support their club.

 

 

I used to work in Manchester and live there for a while and the 2 common misconceptions about Manchester is that.

 

1) The majority of Manchester supports City - This is complete and utter bollocks and in actual fact its more of a swing for United than City. Many City fans come from surrounding areas such as Stockport, Hyde and the area of Greater Manchester, the actual city of Manchester is massive on United and is full of reds.

 

2) There are Manchester United fans and then there are Glory fans. I was lucky enough in that spending a lot of time in Manchester I got to see the real difference between the two. The real Manchester United fans are the equivalent of every other fan, they support the team because it's local, it's been passed down from their Dad/Uncle/Granddad. They know they are lucky to have such a brilliant team to follow and obviously enjoy the victories but equally they know in the past the clubs fortunes weren't so great. Then there is the Glory fan who everybody in this thread has described, they all get tarred with the same brush. 

You've not met the same Man U fans as me then. Hugely obnoxious twats.

 

Obviously they are a bigger club than Man City, so they're going to have more fans in Manchester. I'm pretty sure the thing about City having more fans is a joke emphasising the point that they have a lot of glory supporters.

[Kitchandro]

Man Utd earnt theirs (to an extent), Man City & Chelsea, as well as others (us included) got lucky. Nothing more.

 

Man Utd got lucky. Some people make out like they've won title after title spending no money.

 

How is what they have done and what Man City done any different, really? The only difference is Man Utd are naturally a bi club and will reap the benefits of the modern era easier.

 

They're all the same to me, it's all based on money. Chelsea and Man Utd both have tossers for fans, that's why I like to see them both lose.

 

So back to your earlier comment about it being cringeworthy to want them to lose, that's bollocks. They have a couple of cvntish fanbases and I hate some of the players on both teams. That's far more significant than rich owners being in control of them, which is really not the fault of any fanbase, is it?

 

I don't think Chelsea deserve to be hated because they have Abramovich, they deserve to be hated because they support Abramovich's hire and fire policy, they're impatient, hugely ignorant about most football matters, and worship players like John Terry.

 

United it's similar. Hate their fans, hate their players, hated Fergie as a bloke.

[Donut]

Man Utd got lucky. Some people make out like they've won title after title spending no money.

 

How is what they have done and what Man City done any different, really? The only difference is Man Utd are naturally a bi club and will reap the benefits of the modern era easier.

 

They're all the same to me, it's all based on money. Chelsea and Man Utd both have tossers for fans, that's why I like to see them both lose.

 

So back to your earlier comment about it being cringeworthy to want them to lose, that's bollocks. They have a couple of cvntish fanbases and I hate some of the players on both teams. That's far more significant than rich owners being in control of them, which is really not the fault of any fanbase, is it?

 

I don't think Chelsea deserve to be hated because they have Abramovich, they deserve to be hated because they support Abramovich's hire and fire policy, they're impatient, hugely ignorant about most football matters, and worship players like John Terry.

 

United it's similar. Hate their fans, hate their players, hated Fergie as a bloke.

 

You cant go through life with such boiling hatred for things. Just calm down

[The Year Of The Fox]

Man Utd got lucky. Some people make out like they've won title after title spending no money.

 

How is what they have done and what Man City done any different, really? The only difference is Man Utd are naturally a bi club and will reap the benefits of the modern era easier.

 

They're all the same to me, it's all based on money. Chelsea and Man Utd both have tossers for fans, that's why I like to see them both lose.

 

So back to your earlier comment about it being cringeworthy to want them to lose, that's bollocks. They have a couple of cvntish fanbases and I hate some of the players on both teams. That's far more significant than rich owners being in control of them, which is really not the fault of any fanbase, is it?

 

I don't think Chelsea deserve to be hated because they have Abramovich, they deserve to be hated because they support Abramovich's hire and fire policy, they're impatient, hugely ignorant about most football matters, and worship players like John Terry.

 

United it's similar. Hate their fans, hate their players, hated Fergie as a bloke.

Man Utd were no richer than any other team when they first started winning things under Fergie. They only 'got lucky' by winning stuff as money came into football. They 'got lucky' though by having a decent manager with some foresight and was able to gel a team together. Had fergie had taken over any other club instead of man utd they'd have probably had equal success. Man City and Chelsea have just had a bloke throw million after million at them. Ita really not that hard to understand.

[Stadt]

I want every club other than us to lose whether that be Man U or Macclesfield.

[Donut]

Man Utd were no richer than any other team when they first started winning things under Fergie. They only 'got lucky' by winning stuff as money came into football. They 'got lucky' though by having a decent manager with some foresight and was able to gel a team together. Had fergie had taken over any other club instead of man utd they'd have probably had equal success. Man City and Chelsea have just had a bloke throw million after million at them. Ita really not that hard to understand.

 

Exactly. Ferguson had to build the club up from its very core in the early days.

 

In fact, he talks about it quite a bit in the US TV interview he did which is available on youtube where he stressed getting the structure of the club right and with an emphasis on producing players from the beginning to create a lasting legacy.

[Jimothy]

I want every club other than us to lose whether that be Man U or Macclesfield.

Well that's impossible

[Stadt]

Well that's impossible

I know

Well most of the time I do actually want a certain team to win

[The Year Of The Fox]

Because the majority of their fans are gloryhunters who don't come from anywhere near Manchester.

Ditto Liverpool fans.

[GingerrrFox]

Man Utd got lucky. Some people make out like they've won title after title spending no money.

How is what they have done and what Man City done any different, really? The only difference is Man Utd are naturally a bi club and will reap the benefits of the modern era easier.

They're all the same to me, it's all based on money. Chelsea and Man Utd both have tossers for fans, that's why I like to see them both lose.

So back to your earlier comment about it being cringeworthy to want them to lose, that's bollocks. They have a couple of cvntish fanbases and I hate some of the players on both teams. That's far more significant than rich owners being in control of them, which is really not the fault of any fanbase, is it?

I don't think Chelsea deserve to be hated because they have Abramovich, they deserve to be hated because they support Abramovich's hire and fire policy, they're impatient, hugely ignorant about most football matters, and worship players like John Terry.

United it's similar. Hate their fans, hate their players, hated Fergie as a bloke.

This is complete and utter bollocks. For years United won **** all and were the definition of mediocre. They hired Ferguson and allowed him to reshape the club and gave him time even when he was under intense pressure to get the sack. They started winning things and through winning got more money and exposure. They became a modern giant through nothing but success. That isn't luck. That isn't money from a foreign investor. They created the wealth and success from the performances of the team and the development of their academy. You just sound bitter and a bit pathetic to be honest. Who hates Ferguson FFS? He's the greatest football manager and the most successful in history.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

Ditto Liverpool fans.

 

Yeah I hate both clubs equally tbh.

[Guest MattP]

Who hates Ferguson FFS? He's the greatest football manager and the most successful in history.

 

I do and quite a few others actually.

 

Not because of his success though, his arrogance, his persistent bullying of referees, his attitudes towards a lot of his fellow managers, his pathetic self exclusion from the BBC for being asked a perfectly reasonable question, he almost comical excuses in defence of Roy Keane, his refusal to ever accept defeat fairly, his withdrawals of players from International and above all his warped political views.

 

Just because someone is successful I'm not going to like them if they are a complete cnut.

[The Year Of The Fox]

This is complete and utter bollocks. For years United won **** all and were the definition of mediocre. They hired Ferguson and allowed him to reshape the club and gave him time even when he was under intense pressure to get the sack. They started winning things and through winning got more money and exposure. They became a modern giant through nothing but success. That isn't luck. That isn't money from a foreign investor. They created the wealth and success from the performances of the team and the development of their academy. You just sound bitter and a bit pathetic to be honest. Who hates Ferguson FFS? He's the greatest football manager and the most successful in history.

Agree with all you say til the bit about fergie at the end. Bar the united fans i know and myself i dont anyone who likes him. It's a bit short sighted IMO, the bloke was only ever out to want the best for his team. Whether you disagree or agree with what he said it was only in uniteds best interests. It's similiar to Pearson with us i think. He's single minded about the team, who genuinely gives a fcuk whether his post match interviews are insightful?

[The Year Of The Fox]

This is complete and utter bollocks. For years United won **** all and were the definition of mediocre. They hired Ferguson and allowed him to reshape the club and gave him time even when he was under intense pressure to get the sack. They started winning things and through winning got more money and exposure. They became a modern giant through nothing but success. That isn't luck. That isn't money from a foreign investor. They created the wealth and success from the performances of the team and the development of their academy. You just sound bitter and a bit pathetic to be honest. Who hates Ferguson FFS? He's the greatest football manager and the most successful in history.

And even clubs who were bankrolled can't sustain title challenge after title like Man Utd did- see man city and Blackburn.

[Fox92]

I've seen a change since moving to Manchester. The United fans I've met seem more 'sensible'. I do agree that there is a general view that City fans live in Manchester. I take Gingerrrfox's point, but I must say I see more City fans around. (Of course, there might be United fans not wearing colours). There are a couple of City fans in my lectures as well, but then again the University is closer to East Manchester I think. Well, I live 10 minutes away from City's training ground.

 

In regards to the point above, I like Fergie. He is the most successful manager in history, but I don't personally think he's the best. Let's not forget Brian Clough made two average Clubs among the greatest in the Country (in Forest' terms Europe as well) as well retaining the Champions League which Ferguson never did. And also, the likes of Bob Paisley who transformed Liverpool (didn't he win more Champions Leagues than Fergie)... I don't care what people say either, Fergie spent a lot of money. How many times did he spent £20million+ on one player? Where as, in Wenger's case, he never chose to do that. (When it was Arsenal/United competing constantly). Personally, Arsenal are the best Premier League side I've seen (I'm talking about when Vieira wins the ball back and they break within a blink of an eye, players like Pires, Henry, Bergkamp...)

[Guest MattP]

In regards to the point above, I like Fergie. He is the most successful manager in history, but I don't personally think he's the best. Let's not forget Brian Clough made two average Clubs among the greatest in the Country (in Forest' terms Europe as well) as well retaining the Champions League which Ferguson never did. And also, the likes of Bob Paisley who transformed Liverpool (didn't he win more Champions Leagues than Fergie)... I don't care what people say either, Fergie spent a lot of money. How many times did he spent £20million+ on one player? Where as, in Wenger's case, he never chose to do that. (When it was Arsenal/United competing constantly). Personally, Arsenal are the best Premier League side I've seen (I'm talking about when Vieira wins the ball back and they break within a blink of an eye, players like Pires, Henry, Bergkamp...)

 

Agree with that, Ferguson is probably the best ever domestic manager but he seriously underachieved in Europe.

 

With teh squads he had for 25 years he should have won more than two European Cups. Same as Clough and look at what he worked with.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I've seen a change since moving to Manchester. The United fans I've met seem more 'sensible'. I do agree that there is a general view that City fans live in Manchester. I take Gingerrrfox's point, but I must say I see more City fans around. (Of course, there might be United fans not wearing colours). There are a couple of City fans in my lectures as well, but then again the University is closer to East Manchester I think. Well, I live 10 minutes away from City's training ground.

 

In regards to the point above, I like Fergie. He is the most successful manager in history, but I don't personally think he's the best. Let's not forget Brian Clough made two average Clubs among the greatest in the Country (in Forest' terms Europe as well) as well retaining the Champions League which Ferguson never did. And also, the likes of Bob Paisley who transformed Liverpool (didn't he win more Champions Leagues than Fergie)... I don't care what people say either, Fergie spent a lot of money. How many times did he spent £20million+ on one player? Where as, in Wenger's case, he never chose to do that. (When it was Arsenal/United competing constantly). Personally, Arsenal are the best Premier League side I've seen (I'm talking about when Vieira wins the ball back and they break within a blink of an eye, players like Pires, Henry, Bergkamp...)

They were bloody good in that unbeaten season undoubtably. But fergie managed to regenerate squad after squad with a relatively quick turn around to still be succesful from before arsenal competed to beyond when arsenal used to compete.