Diving in the PL

[DennisNedry]

Becoming a bit of an epidemic now in football but especially the Premier League.

It seems that every MOTD I watch now there is a dodgy penalty given for diving, or somebody is booked for diving.

Oscar, Januzaj, Ashley Young, Suarez, Hernades are the current offenders that are annoying me the most.

 

Sepp Blatter wants time penalties for divers: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25586007

Martinez getting fed up with it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25587737

 

The cause of this is one of a few factors:

- The 'do anything to win - even cheat' attitude

- Foreign players and their influence on English footballers. Table below shows that the teams with the most divers are the teams with the top foreign talent. As you go lower down the league there is less diving. Into the championship there is less foreign players so less diving. In Leagues 1 and 2 it is very rare. 

 

Most bookings for simulation by club (since August 2008)

• Tottenham - 13
• Chelsea - 12
• Manchester United - 12
• Arsenal - 8
• Liverpool - 8

 

 

 

The biggest factor for me is how the rules of football have become warped. Now it seems that if there is any contact between the 2 players, the attacker has the 'right' to go down, or is 'entitled' to go down. Any contact, if not enough to knock somebody over or even off balance is now an invitation to go to ground. Attacking players now even try to position themselves or their legs so that contact with the defender is unavoidable.

Where has the integrity and sportmanship to play fairly gone?

[Stuliasz]

The biggest factor for me is how the rules of football have become warped. Now it seems that if there is any contact between the 2 players, the attacker has the 'right' to go down, or is 'entitled' to go down. Any contact, if not enough to knock somebody over or even off balance is now an invitation to go to ground. Attacking players now even try to position themselves or their legs so that contact with the defender is unavoidable.

Where has the integrity and sportmanship to play fairly gone?

 

Believe you have hit the nail on the head there. Seems to be largely a media fuelled line that and one that encourages simulation. If there is contact but it doesn't impede your ability to carry on playing, going down is simulation in my view. The problem is that it is awfully difficult for referees to spot the difference in the heat of a game so such simulation needs to be punished retrospectively, regardless of what decision the ref gave during the match.

[Captain...]

In part it is down to the rules on what is and isn't a foul are very unclear and seems to be down to the ref's interpretation more than anything else.

 

Really the ref should be able to isolate the actions of the fouler and ignore the reactions of the fouled.

 

One of the clearest rules is that if you leave the ground with your studs up, it doesn't matter if you make contact or not, if you make contact, if you break their leg or if you miss completely and they jump out the way. It is a foul and a red card. Simple clear definition.

 

The rest seem to be judgement calls, shoulder to shoulder, pushing, obstruction, even tackles from behind are supposed to be outlawed but we see it all the time and it is normally only given as a foul if the other player goes down, which means players are going to go down easily. If we could define the fouls without using "make contact with a player", then it is solely dependant on what the player fouling does, whether there is contact or not.

[Guest kristianity77]

Blatter for once is totally right on this issue.  Let the players dive around all they like during games but look at incidents retrospectively.  As soon as you start putting out 3 match bans for it, it will stop in a heartbeat.  Chelseas one at the weekend was cringeworthy to look at.  He could have just rolled the ball into an empty net rather than go down!  3 match bans for me, and then if a player does the same thing again in the same season, 5 match ban.

[Captain...]

Blatter for once is totally right on this issue.  Let the players dive around all they like during games but look at incidents retrospectively.  As soon as you start putting out 3 match bans for it, it will stop in a heartbeat.  Chelseas one at the weekend was cringeworthy to look at.  He could have just rolled the ball into an empty net rather than go down!  3 match bans for me, and then if a player does the same thing again in the same season, 5 match ban.

 

Just take away any goals as a direct result of diving, 3 match bans will be a deterrent but it won't benefit the team on the receiving end of the diving, having the victory taken away after the event because you are a cheating cvnt will be a greater deterrent.

[Guest kristianity77]

Just take away any goals as a direct result of diving, 3 match bans will be a deterrent but it won't benefit the team on the receiving end of the diving, having the victory taken away after the event because you are a cheating cvnt will be a greater deterrent.

What if a game finishes 4-0 and the dive resulted in only the first goal?  You cant realistically go back and alter results after a game has finished.  All you can do is stamp it out once the game is over.  If the bans ever got introduced then that on its own would be the deterrent.  Purely because the management more so than now would get on every players backs to not even attempt it.  And if a player continually tried to do it then youd think he would be shown the door to the club if hes constantly banned.  Players that now have a reputation for diving have made a rod for their own backs anyway.  Take Young for instance at the weekend, could quite easily have been a penalty but because of his past, he will never get the benefit of the doubt now. 

[Voll Blau]

Red card anyone the ref suspects is doing it. It'll make football a dreadful sport to watch for a few months but it'll wipe out the problem.

[Fox92]

Something needs to be done in terms of players staying on their feet as well. I've seen games before where the player has skipped a challenge to stay on his feet, instead of going down, and got no reward. Where's the line drawn? I agree something needs to be done about it though... Serves Ashley Young right for not getting that penalty against Spurs. His reputation of diving may have got the better of him for once.

[Haydos]

Take goals away after games have finished? Behave.

 

Apart from being silly, it doesn't even take into account the subjectivity of 'diving'. Yes there are obvious ones like Oscar's but where do you draw the line?

 

Retroactive punishment does seem the way to go but punishments need to be in line with everything else. Why not an increasing punishment with offences. 1 or 2 matches for first offence then increases by a game each time they are caught.

 

Another interesting thing would be team punishments. Fines would be out because they're pointless. Point deductions? Manager bans?

[Haydos]

Something needs to be done in terms of players staying on their feet as well. I've seen games before where the player has skipped a challenge to stay on his feet, instead of going down, and got no reward. Where's the line drawn? I agree something needs to be done about it though... Serves Ashley Young right for not getting that penalty against Spurs. His reputation of diving may have got the better of him for once.

 

I agree, referees need to start using their heads or at least encouraged to. If a player is fouled but stays on his feet, give the decision if there is no advantage, don't punish players for trying. The foul should be the contact area, not what happens after the coming together.

[Captain...]

What if a game finishes 4-0 and the dive resulted in only the first goal?  You cant realistically go back and alter results after a game has finished.  All you can do is stamp it out once the game is over.  If the bans ever got introduced then that on its own would be the deterrent.  Purely because the management more so than now would get on every players backs to not even attempt it.  And if a player continually tried to do it then youd think he would be shown the door to the club if hes constantly banned.  Players that now have a reputation for diving have made a rod for their own backs anyway.  Take Young for instance at the weekend, could quite easily have been a penalty but because of his past, he will never get the benefit of the doubt now. 

 

Well then it would be 3-0.

 

I think the Oscar incident at the weekend was everything that is wrong with diving, could so easily have scored if he'd stayed on his feet, but instead dived for the penalty and red card for the keeper. When players are more bothered about getting a keeper sent off than scoring you know something has gone wrong.

[Captain...]

Take goals away after games have finished? Behave.

 

Apart from being silly, it doesn't even take into account the subjectivity of 'diving'. Yes there are obvious ones like Oscar's but where do you draw the line?

 

Retroactive punishment does seem the way to go but punishments need to be in line with everything else. Why not an increasing punishment with offences. 1 or 2 matches for first offence then increases by a game each time they are caught.

 

Another interesting thing would be team punishments. Fines would be out because they're pointless. Point deductions? Manager bans?

 

But none of that benefits the team that are on the receiving end, imagine it is the last game of the season and we need to win to get promotion, Doncaster need to avoid defeat to stay up. We are winning 1-0, last minute Richie Wellens runs into the box and dives, ref gives a penalty they score, we miss out on promotion and Doncaster stay up.

 

Now fines, bans, or any other sort of punishment will mean nothing to Doncaster, a points deduction may relegate them, but it still doesn't help us get promoted.

 

You erase the goal and everything is right with the world. We go up, Doncaster go down as it should have been, without that cheating cvnt Wellens!!!

[Haydos]

But none of that benefits the team that are on the receiving end, imagine it is the last game of the season and we need to win to get promotion, Doncaster need to avoid defeat to stay up. We are winning 1-0, last minute Richie Wellens runs into the box and dives, ref gives a penalty they score, we miss out on promotion and Doncaster stay up.

 

Now fines, bans, or any other sort of punishment will mean nothing to Doncaster, a points deduction may relegate them, but it still doesn't help us get promoted.

 

You erase the goal and everything is right with the world. We go up, Doncaster go down as it should have been, without that cheating cvnt Wellens!!!

 

I do see your point and I agree but I don't think changing results is the correct way to go. We don't do it for offsides or handballs or any other kinds of cheating.

 

I don't know, my brain hurts at the moment.

[Stadt]

Fine the player a months wages and give them a one match ban.

[Guest kristianity77]

But none of that benefits the team that are on the receiving end, imagine it is the last game of the season and we need to win to get promotion, Doncaster need to avoid defeat to stay up. We are winning 1-0, last minute Richie Wellens runs into the box and dives, ref gives a penalty they score, we miss out on promotion and Doncaster stay up.

 

Now fines, bans, or any other sort of punishment will mean nothing to Doncaster, a points deduction may relegate them, but it still doesn't help us get promoted.

 

You erase the goal and everything is right with the world. We go up, Doncaster go down as it should have been, without that cheating cvnt Wellens!

 

You cant realistically do anything at the time if a player decides hes going to try and deceive the ref unless the ref spots it.  I think the idea is that if bans are in place for diving then you eradicate the dives during the game so that teams have no need to feel deceived like they do now.  

[bovril]

Red card anyone the ref suspects is doing it. It'll make football a dreadful sport to watch for a few months but it'll wipe out the problem.

 

I think this is really the only solution.

 

And I agree with the original poster, every time I hear "he had every right to go down" or "he should've gone down" it makes me cringe. It has seriously started to put me off football, particularly the Prem and the CL. The diving and the endless debate and drivel that follows on TV analysis. I can't think of another sport where such obvious, blatant cheating goes on so regularly and can change the outcome so dramatically. Can you imagine an American Football player feigning injury?

[Captain...]

I do see your point and I agree but I don't think changing results is the correct way to go. We don't do it for offsides or handballs or any other kinds of cheating.

 

I don't know, my brain hurts at the moment.

 

I don't see offsides as cheating, but I would be happy to see Henry's goal wiped from the records, although it would be impractical if it was a cup match to change the result after.

 

Or we introduce a decision review system, but to do that we need to change the rules to remove subjectivity, the problem is now that even after umpteen replays experts and pundits can still be divided over what is a foul or not, and until they change the rules to be clear we will always have this feeling of injustice.

 

We need simple clear rules.

 

Such as shirt pulling how often does it happen, and how often does it get blown up for? shoulder to shoulder is that even still a rule any more? Backing into and pushing so many times it could go either way. Even with retrospective action there is going to be debate except in the most clear cut cases, but I guess that is where you start strongly punishing the clear cut dives.

 

Take Oscar's dive at the weekend, there was contact and the keeper did impede him without getting anywhere near the ball, should keeper's be allowed to do that? If Oscar had done something different with the ball, instead of knocking it round the keeper, he chipped over the unrushing keeper and so was going forwards with the ball, rather than away from the keeper, he would have been taken out it would have been a penalty and a red card. The thing is the keeper did exactly the same thing but it was Oscar's movements that determined if it was a foul or not.

[Ross-Kemp]

Anyone who is proven guilty retrospectively should get fined 3-4 weeks wages and receive a 10 game ban.

If you did the above, I can assure you diving will not be around for much longer.

[Durnerz]

Agree with retrospective punishment, if we were going to dish out red cards for it there would be no La Liga or Serie A games on ever.

Three match ban and a fine to go with it should do the trick,

 

[Haydos]

I don't see offsides as cheating, but I would be happy to see Henry's goal wiped from the records, although it would be impractical if it was a cup match to change the result after.

 

Or we introduce a decision review system, but to do that we need to change the rules to remove subjectivity, the problem is now that even after umpteen replays experts and pundits can still be divided over what is a foul or not, and until they change the rules to be clear we will always have this feeling of injustice.

 

We need simple clear rules.

 

Such as shirt pulling how often does it happen, and how often does it get blown up for? shoulder to shoulder is that even still a rule any more? Backing into and pushing so many times it could go either way. Even with retrospective action there is going to be debate except in the most clear cut cases, but I guess that is where you start strongly punishing the clear cut dives.

 

Take Oscar's dive at the weekend, there was contact and the keeper did impede him without getting anywhere near the ball, should keeper's be allowed to do that? If Oscar had done something different with the ball, instead of knocking it round the keeper, he chipped over the unrushing keeper and so was going forwards with the ball, rather than away from the keeper, he would have been taken out it would have been a penalty and a red card. The thing is the keeper did exactly the same thing but it was Oscar's movements that determined if it was a foul or not.

 

The keeper didn't really impede him though, he stretched for the ball and didn't reach it, just like a normal missed tackle. Oscar knocked it past him and as he's running with it he was obviously able to go round him. He moves his leg toward the keeper in a completely unatural movement.

 

If he had chipped it over then he's chipped it over, he's going to have to deal with getting over a keeper on the ground.

 

What I'm trying to say again is that the tackle area is the most important area. Whether he knocks it past or chips it over, it depends what they both do. If the keeper wipes him out and he can't get out the way then obviously it's a pen. If he is able to jump over/go round the outside but decides to nick the keeper and go to ground, that's a dive.

[DennisNedry]

Another bad dive turns a game at the weekend, this time from Raheem Stirling. 

[Captain...]

Another bad dive turns a game at the weekend, this time from Raheem Stirling.

I didn't see it as a dive on motd 2, just a soft penalty, or am I mis-remembering?

[Beliall]

if an independant panel could review dives after a game, and have the authority to deduct piont from the team and ban the player for 3 games, maybe it might stop. during the game it should be a red i think. there will be mistakes in the heat of the tostart with, but maybe the like of young etc would think twice

[Uncle Albert]

How is that a dive from Sterling? Especially when there is clear contact between Wilson and Sterling. It was a very soft penalty, Rodgers came out and said it was soft, hardly a dive, just clumsy from Wilson and Sterling went down, not a dive. 

[Bert]

That is what you call a dive.