Improving The FA Cup

[Libertine Dream]

But then, why should the team that finishes fourth in a competition get into the Champions League, when the champions of the 'greatest domestic cup competition in the world' don't?

But over the course of a season they are the fourth best team in the country, not the 18th.

Wigan played Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Macclesfield, Everton and Millwall before the final. Now granted Everton away was a difficult tie and obviously beating City in the final was a great effort but it was hardly the most difficult run. On the other hand Arsenal were the 4th best team in the country over the course of 38 games, not the 18th.

As ScouseFox says, it's unlikely that Wigan would have won it but if one of the top three wins it, which would be likely, where does the extra CL place go then, to 4th anyway?

[Kitchandro]

Just throwing the other argument in there, I get that top teams take it more seriously if CL is on offer but if Wigan had qualified for Champions League by winning it then that is worse that 4th place getting it, surely? How can a team that finishes 18th who may have had an easier run to the final, enter a competiton but the fourth best team in the country doesn't?

 

But at least they've actually won something. Football shouldn't be about who the biggest clubs are, if you go out and win a competition and you''re a small club so what? You've earned it on merit. Why should clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool be the only ones who can compete in the CL when they're not Champions of anything?

 

They're being rewarded for being a big club, basically.

 

And also, had this hypothetical situation been the case last season, do you think Wigan would have still won it? I'm not so sure myself, probably not in all honesty.

 

If the big clubs were forced to take it seriously then it's in their own hands to win it themselves. There's still 3 places left for the top 3 if they get knocked out anyway.

[Kitchandro]

You may as well just end the competition if clubs need more of an incentive than actually WINNING THE FA CUP. 

 

Well that is another option, but no one wants that, surely?

 

If money is the way we have to play this game, then I say play it. Personally, I want to believe that a club like Leicester City will try and win things, and can actually dream of doing big things, just like before the Premier League, when seasons weren't decided by money and the size of clubs.

[Kitchandro]

Yes but let's be honest Wigan would NEVER, ever win the FA Cup if it offered a CL place. Ever. Everyone would play a strongest XI and the quarter finals onwards would be 100% top half Prem teams. Every year. 

 

Not necessarily every year though, that's the beauty of the cup. It's a one-off match. All clubs used to take it seriously and we still had upsets.

[Kitchandro]

But over the course of a season they are the fourth best team in the country, not the 18th.

Wigan played Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Macclesfield, Everton and Millwall before the final. Now granted Everton away was a difficult tie and obviously beating City in the final was a great effort but it was hardly the most difficult run. On the other hand Arsenal were the 4th best team in the country over the course of 38 games, not the 18th.

As ScouseFox says, it's unlikely that Wigan would have won it but if one of the top three wins it, which would be likely, where does the extra CL place go then, to 4th anyway?

 

I suppose so, I think people would accept that.

 

I don't think either situation is ideal. Really and truly, the Champions league should be for league champions, and the FA Cup should be taken seriously anyway. But that's not how it is.

 

I don't think Arsenal would have been more deserving of a Champions League spot last season. They have much greater resources than Wigan, they were always going to finish in the top 4 before the season started. It's not really an achievement for them to finish 4th.

 

I think this change would be good for them. It would force them to try and win that trophy they've been starved of for years - making the fans happy, and getting them their money in the process. 

[Dan]

Completely agree, I think giving a spot to the Cup winners is a great idea. Do I think it would ever happen? Honestly, no.

 

Clubs wouldn't even be able to say their finances would suffer if they got relegated - winning the FA Cup and getting the CL money would be better than staying up.

 

The 'Champions' League is a joke anyway, is it right that sides like Chelsea and Liverpool in recent years have been crowned the best team in Europe?

 

[aussie-fox]

the way i see it is that foreign players and owners have killed the FA Cup magic.

 

they haven't been brought up with the knowledge that the fa cup is special to English football fans. which is why i have no idea if any other domestic cup worldwide is special because i wasn't brought up with that information.

 

It will never happen but if hypothetically all english clubs were once again english owned/ran and there was a cap on how many foreign players could play in a match squad then the fa cup would once again become a much wanted trophy by everyone.

 

i used to love the fa cup up until the time it went to cardiff for the final. after that ive really haven't been excited about the who competition which is sad because i would love to be excited over it again

[Haydos]

 

The 'Champions' League is a joke anyway, is it right that sides like Chelsea and Liverpool in recent years have been crowned the best team in Europe?

 

Is it? The only fair way to decide things realistically is a league and that just isn't possible. The Champs league is the best it can be at the moment. The fact that 'upsets' happen is a good thing, not bad, those teams fought to get it and as they say, that's the beauty of the cup.

[Aus Fox]

What about if te third round was seeded with the bottom 32 teams all having a home game against the top 32. Upsets would be a plenty, all the lower league clubs would get a full house and some much needed revenue.

Supporters of the top 32 would have a big day out at a new ground.

Just an idea to et a bit of magic back in third round day.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Just throwing the other argument in there, I get that top teams take it more seriously if CL is on offer but if Wigan had qualified for Champions League by winning it then that is worse that 4th place getting it, surely? How can a team that finishes 18th who may have had an easier run to the final, enter a competiton but the fourth best team in the country doesn't?

At least giving it to the FA Cup winners would mean there was another team had actually won something, rather thsn finishing 4th.

Itd be more in keeping with the name 'CL'

[Charl91]

To be honest, I would get rid of the league cup, and keep the F.A cup. We don't need two cups a season, on top of the league and the champions league.

[Happy Fox]

Or make the league cup just for football league clubs

[Fox92]

If there was less money involved in the PL, it would be much better. I mean, clubs like Chelsea and recently Manchester City who just seem to buy everyone... Right, the PL is split, it's not tight at all. There are three top teams in my opinion (City, United, Chelsea) who are ahead of the next set of teams (Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal) because of their ability to just keep spending millions and millions.

 

So when a team gets promoted, lets say we did, what do we aim for? Avoid relegation, then if that's complete, mid table? Then what? Consistent top ten finishes? Without winning a domestic trophy, that maybe seen as 'boring' (from an external point of view). There is such a massive gap from mid table to top of the PL, that teams who have won the top division before (Huddersfield, Preston, Wolves etc) have no chance of ever doing it again due to the money involved with the top teams. They are bankrolled. 

 

I know I'm banging on about money here again, and it might seem a million miles away from what you're getting at, but I genuinely believe that if there was less money involved, the league would obviously be tighter. Then, for example, ten or fifteen clubs might have a chance of winning the league (like in the football league). Surely certain clubs might take domestic cups more seriously? If Chelsea or Manchester United know that their title challenge maybe between another twelve teams, not only Manchester City, then they could view the domestic cups as a chance of winning something.

 

I hate it when people disrespect the FA Cup. It's the greatest club Cup competition in the World. I've always said it's better than the Champions League, I know some people agree, and that really is a statement! I would love Leicester to win it in my lifetime. I do believe certain clubs should take it seriously, but I also like the so-called bigger clubs getting knocked out. Was pleased for Wigan last season, and Portsmouth in 2008, just something different.

 

On a seperate note do some people think the draw is kind of fixed? Or is it only me? Third round, all those chances of getting a different team yet Arsenal draw their biggest rivals. And if anybody noticed, there were about 6 or 8 teams left in the hat with them and two of those teams were Villa and Birmingham? The other year, third round, Manchester United drew Liverpool (think that happened two seasons running actually).

 

Oh, and the semi finals shouldn't be played at Wembley (doesn't that sort of kill the excitement of going to Wembley for a final?), and the final itself should be played on a Saturday, after the season is over, at 3pm. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

Yeh, they definitely need to move the final back to the very last game of the season, 3pm.

[Jimothy]

I think it's just a case of teams agreeing to drop the ticket prices. That's what the issue is, that fans aren't coming to some of the games. As for the teams being put out , I think people are making something of nothing. Teams have always made a few change for cup games. Despite what Lambert said this week, that team he put out against a League One team had 7 or so regular starters, including a £20m rated striker. That should have been more than enough to see off a league one side. Man City put out a team they would happily put out against the likes of Sunderland or Hull in the league, again they've let themselves down by not going through. Even looking at the Leeds team, they were quite strong and should have seen off Rochdale. But aren't those results the magic of the cup we're all looking for? Not sure what people actually want. They seem to want a cup where Northampton can knock out Liverpool, but where they expect Liverpool to always be in the latter stages. The only reason Wigan got to the final last year is because a lot of the big teams saw each other off, and one, in Liverpool, lost to Oldham, (surely the magic of the cup). They got a huge team in the final, and got a freak result, it's not like City didn't take the final seriously. Looking at the previous years winners over the last 10 years, you've had Chelsea 4 times, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, and Man Utd. Only Pompey and Wigan could be classed as small teams winning the cup, and without listing the whole of the fa cup fixture lists for those years, some of the bigger teams saw each other off.

So for me it's just about getting prices down, these are extra games, money's tight, people don't want to pay £40 odd to go to an extra match. And get it off bloody itv, and BT sport. Might not seem the most important thing, but itv are terrible, the bbc always did the cup in the proper way.

[davieG]

We need a revolution for the solution but it will never happen.

 

We need to take on board some of the aspects of the NFL, A sports league in the most capitalist country in the world where the survival of the fittest are the national bywords and yet they go out of their way to create a level playing field.

 

 

The best way to do that is to ensure an even spread of all money coming into the game.

 

Such as:-

UEFA needs to massively reduce the financial incentives for the CL and use the surplus to develop ground roots football across Europe.

There needs to be an FFP type cap on PL budgets - this needs to a world wide FIFA initiative

TV money needs to be distributed more evenly and include incentives/bonus payments to clubs to improve facilities and prices for fans.

 

But it's a utopian pipe dream.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I think it's just a case of teams agreeing to drop the ticket prices. That's what the issue is, that fans aren't coming to some of the games. As for the teams being put out , I think people are making something of nothing. Teams have always made a few change for cup games. Despite what Lambert said this week, that team he put out against a League One team had 7 or so regular starters, including a £20m rated striker. That should have been more than enough to see off a league one side. Man City put out a team they would happily put out against the likes of Sunderland or Hull in the league, again they've let themselves down by not going through. Even looking at the Leeds team, they were quite strong and should have seen off Rochdale. But aren't those results the magic of the cup we're all looking for? Not sure what people actually want. They seem to want a cup where Northampton can knock out Liverpool, but where they expect Liverpool to always be in the latter stages. The only reason Wigan got to the final last year is because a lot of the big teams saw each other off, and one, in Liverpool, lost to Oldham, (surely the magic of the cup). They got a huge team in the final, and got a freak result, it's not like City didn't take the final seriously. Looking at the previous years winners over the last 10 years, you've had Chelsea 4 times, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, and Man Utd. Only Pompey and Wigan could be classed as small teams winning the cup, and without listing the whole of the fa cup fixture lists for those years, some of the bigger teams saw each other off.

So for me it's just about getting prices down, these are extra games, money's tight, people don't want to pay £40 odd to go to an extra match. And get it off bloody itv, and BT sport. Might not seem the most important thing, but itv are terrible, the bbc always did the cup in the proper way.

A short reply isnt really deserving of what youve wrote but arent all tickets £15 for the first few rounds?

[Fox92]

It's only natural when clubs are run by non-football fan businessmen who don't understand how valuable this competition is (was) to English football, who are only interested in money, that managers will not be judged on how they do in these competitions.

 

Leicester didn't go for it again for me today, the same as the Man City game.

 

I genuinely believe Pearson didn't bother if we lost. I think he would have wanted to win or lose. Anything as long as we didn't draw and have to play again, even Shakespeare said pre match we didn't want a draw.

 

Listening to Pearson post match, there wasn't a hint of anger in his voice. Think the league is more important this year, especially in our current position. Derby is by far the bigger game.

 

I love the FA Cup; I want to see Leicester win it. However, getting promoted is the priority this year for me. FA Cup, is great for a day isn't it. I mean, who remembers the fact the the likes of Barnsley have won it? People see Stoke and Swansea as PL regulars now, but who remembers their FA Cup run when they got promoted? The PL remains the holy grail, and it's about time we got back in the top flight after our long absence. 

[Jimothy]

A short reply isnt really deserving of what youve wrote but arent all tickets £15 for the first few rounds?

I'll be honest I didn't look at every game, but I heard the cheapest ticket at Arsenal was £60 plus.

[davieG]

I genuinely believe Pearson didn't bother if we lost. I think he would have wanted to win or lose. Anything as long as we didn't draw and have to play again, even Shakespeare said pre match we didn't want a draw.

 

Listening to Pearson post match, there wasn't a hint of anger in his voice. Think the league is more important this year, especially in our current position. Derby is by far the bigger game.

 

I love the FA Cup; I want to see Leicester win it. However, getting promoted is the priority this year for me. FA Cup, is great for a day isn't it. I mean, who remembers the fact the the likes of Barnsley have won it? People see Stoke and Swansea as PL regulars now, but who remembers their FA Cup run when they got promoted? The PL remains the holy grail, and it's about time we got back in the top flight after our long absence. 

 

I bet the Barnsley fans remember it and so would the Swansea and Stoke fans when they inevitable end up back in the Championship, which I believe they will just like we did and we still harp on about our League Cup wins much more than our top ten finishes in the PL

[Fox92]

I bet the Barnsley fans remember it and so would the Swansea and Stoke fans when they inevitable end up back in the Championship, which I believe they will just like we did and we still harp on about our League Cup wins much more than our top ten finishes in the PL

 

This is true, although I was talking about from an external point of view... People on here call the likes of Huddersfield 'tinpot' (yeah I hate that word), but they have a better history than ourselves.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I'll be honest I didn't look at every game, but I heard the cheapest ticket at Arsenal was £60 plus.

Extortion i agree. Unfortunately regardless of price that tie was always going to sell out.

[Jimothy]

Extortion i agree. Unfortunately regardless of price that tie was always going to sell out.

True, it would have sold out whatever price. But still something needs to be done to draw fans in to other games, because that for me is the problem. The teams being put out by managers are fine, the competition just isn't attracting fans. I mentioned the tv channel it's on, and I don't think that's helped either. Itv are woeful, and being on espn in previous years, and to a lesser degree bt sport this year, has seen it tucked away from the majority of viewers, and part of the romance of the cup isn't so much your own teams draw, it's watching teams from a long way down the football pyramid pit their wits against teams at the top of it. Itv and espn have been woeful over the last few year at picking these games to show, seemingly happy to show us premier league teams against each other whenever possible.

[Uncle Albert]

The FA Cup should never be changed, changing the KO time of the Final was bad enough.

[21st Century Fox]

Take a leaf from the Coupe de France, big clubs automatically play away (I think it's a two division separation means automatic home game for the lower team) so smaller clubs can generate a decent gate and TV revenue and no replays. It doesn't solve the competitiveness but it would draw some much needed cash further down the leagues and could incentivise to a few more giant-killings which is part of the magic of the cup. 

 

Beyond that it's difficult to bring the incentives in line when you have a "Champions" League that accepts our top four and an abolished Cup Winner's Cup.