The Year Of The Fox Posted 4 January 2014 Posted 4 January 2014 I've not seen attendance stats for today, but in light of Lamberts comments, the shite turn out by Stoke fans and the resting of players not only by ourselves but any other side with some sort of ambition this season, how would you improve the competition? I shan't go into my Sky and their ruining of football tirade too much, I think most know my thoughts on that. But if playing in the prem next season wasn't the be all and end all for us and other clubs, if the main prem sides were less bothered about finishing in the top 4 each season I reckon this famous 'magic' of the cup I so rarely see nowadays would come back. I'd love the FA and PL to reduce the CL qualification from 1st-4th to 1st-3rd, with the winner of the FA Cup getting the 4th spot. You could even push the boat out and say the 1st-2nd in the prem get two spots with the winners and runners up of the cup getting the other two. It may not change much more often than not as its usually a CL English side who win the thing. But the incentives would be there. For managers, players and fans. The Europa Cup is usually sneered at anyway so doesn't offer much of an incentive to teams competing for 4th and higher spot. Thoughts?
Harry - LCFC Posted 4 January 2014 Posted 4 January 2014 League is far too financially rewarding in comparison to the cup so it takes priority. Wasn't the case in the past so clubs could afford to gamble more towards other competitions without so much risk.
Corky Posted 4 January 2014 Posted 4 January 2014 To be honest, I don't see the reward of playing in the Europa League as a bad thing. It's a European competition, you get to play against some top teams from other nations. It's fine as a reward. To me, the glory of going to Wembley, winning a trophy, being the best at something is enough in itself. Having a name engraved on the trophy, fantastic.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 4 January 2014 Author Posted 4 January 2014 League is far too financially rewarding in comparison to the cup so it takes priority. Wasn't the case in the past so clubs could afford to gamble more towards other competitions without so much risk. Yes but that's my point. The CL is the dangling carrot for anyone in the top 10 of the prem. Take one of those carrots away and put it elsewhere (the FA Cup winner)
Guest Bilo Posted 4 January 2014 Posted 4 January 2014 I've not seen attendance stats for today, but in light of Lamberts comments, the shite turn out by Stoke fans and the resting of players not only by ourselves but any other side with some sort of ambition this season, how would you improve the competition? I shan't go into my Sky and their ruining of football tirade too much, I think most know my thoughts on that. But if playing in the prem next season wasn't the be all and end all for us and other clubs, if the main prem sides were less bothered about finishing in the top 4 each season I reckon this famous 'magic' of the cup I so rarely see nowadays would come back. I'd love the FA and PL to reduce the CL qualification from 1st-4th to 1st-3rd, with the winner of the FA Cup getting the 4th spot. You could even push the boat out and say the 1st-2nd in the prem get two spots with the winners and runners up of the cup getting the other two. Thoughts? Completely agree. I've never seen why a team that's finished 16 points behind the champions, as Arsenal did last season, can play in the CL when a team who wins the FA Cup plays in a competition that has become the European equivalent of the League Cup. You give the FA Cup winners a Champions League spot and you'll see every team in the country take it seriously.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 4 January 2014 Author Posted 4 January 2014 To be honest, I don't see the reward of playing in the Europa League as a bad thing. It's a European competition, you get to play against some top teams from other nations. It's fine as a reward. To me, the glory of going to Wembley, winning a trophy, being the best at something is enough in itself. Having a name engraved on the trophy, fantastic. I agree RE the winning of the competition itself. It's more prestigious to us as we've never won it though. The top 4 much prefer to finish in the top 4 because they see the Europa League as a negative.
Guest Bilo Posted 4 January 2014 Posted 4 January 2014 All that being said, Corky's bob on as well. I would love nothing more than singing Abide With Me at Wembley and watching Wes lift the famous old trophy, the European tour would be but a bonus. It's sad that club boards don't see it the same way because the financial rewards aren't there.
Harry - LCFC Posted 4 January 2014 Posted 4 January 2014 Yes but that's my point. The CL is the dangling carrot for anyone in the top 10 of the prem. Take one of those carrots away and put it elsewhere (the FA Cup winner) Yeah exactly. It isn't a complicated problem to understand, make the FA Cup more financially beneficial in comparison to other competitions and more clubs will go for it. Simple really.
Bayfox Posted 4 January 2014 Posted 4 January 2014 4 champions league spots. league winner. Fa cup winner. league cup winner Top flight play off system say 3rd play 4th to meet runners up. Played overseas and the premiership money get the cash they want. For the 39th and 40th games.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 4 January 2014 Author Posted 4 January 2014 All that being said, Corky's bob on as well. I would love nothing more than singing Abide With Me at Wembley and watching Wes lift the famous old trophy, the European tour would be but a bonus. It's sad that club boards don't see it the same way because the financial rewards aren't there. Exactly, the financial rewards for getting in the Europa League are nothing like the CL. It's a no brainer to me. Though you know the PL would have something to say about it.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 4 January 2014 Author Posted 4 January 2014 4 champions league spots. league winner. Fa cup winner. league cup winner Top flight play off system say 3rd play 4th to meet runners up. Played overseas and the premiership money get the cash they want. For the 39th and 40th games. I think that makes it horribly complicated and the thought of having playoffs abroad as money spinners for the tossers in suits makes my skin crawl and blood boil.
Dan Posted 4 January 2014 Posted 4 January 2014 It's only natural when clubs are run by non-football fan businessmen who don't understand how valuable this competition is (was) to English football, who are only interested in money, that managers will not be judged on how they do in these competitions. Leicester didn't go for it again for me today, the same as the Man City game.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 4 January 2014 Author Posted 4 January 2014 It's only natural when clubs are run by non-football fan businessmen who don't understand how valuable this competition is (was) to English football, who are only interested in money, that managers will not be judged on how they do in these competitions. Leicester didn't go for it again for me today, the same as the Man City game. Exactly and these owners only go on £ signs. Speak their language and you'd soon see a shift on emphasis and more leniency on managers failing to finish in the top 4 or get promotion.
Bayfox Posted 4 January 2014 Posted 4 January 2014 I think that makes it horribly complicated and the thought of having playoffs abroad as money spinners for the tossers in suits makes my skin crawl and blood boil. not complicated plain black and white. 3 places go to teams who actually win something and although not ideal the last spot keeps the money men happy. the cash man city v liverpool followed by the winners facing utd or chelski could make abroad would be massive. I just feel if we have too have 4 spots in a champions league it should be for winners. 4 spot and 17th spot seem to be more important than anything inc both cup competitions.
Guesty Posted 4 January 2014 Posted 4 January 2014 The way I'd like is maybe take away 1 or 2 places from the champs league qualification in the Prem; put those extra people in the Europa then lower the numbers so it is team's that finish say no worse than 5th. Also add the cup winners into this competition and then have this as a route into the Champs League - so maybe 10 to 20 teams qualify this way as well for next years comp. That's just off the top of my head and I'm sure there are too many flaws to make it a reality. I just want something where FA and Europa lead to Champs League Qualification. But I'm not sure if you fluke your way to winning the FA Cup you should take precedent over a team that's finished 4th throughout a season. But 4th place and the FA Cup winner could have a play-off, which is a little more realistic. The Premier League bosses will never allow it though.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 4 January 2014 Author Posted 4 January 2014 not complicated plain black and white. 3 places go to teams who actually win something and although not ideal the last spot keeps the money men happy. the cash man city v liverpool followed by the winners facing utd or chelski could make abroad would be massive. I just feel if we have too have 4 spots in a champions league it should be for winners. 4 spot and 17th spot seem to be more important than anything inc both cup competitions. It's not complicated in that respect no (apart from your last paragraph which i still cant work out )Edit- I understand your 17th spot reference now- sorry! i just think we should avoid playoffs in the premiership, it gets to be too like rugby. Winning the League Cup and getting into the Europa League is fine as tjose two competitions are on a par with one another.
Libertine Dream Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 Completely agree. I've never seen why a team that's finished 16 points behind the champions, as Arsenal did last season, can play in the CL when a team who wins the FA Cup plays in a competition that has become the European equivalent of the League Cup. You give the FA Cup winners a Champions League spot and you'll see every team in the country take it seriously. Just throwing the other argument in there, I get that top teams take it more seriously if CL is on offer but if Wigan had qualified for Champions League by winning it then that is worse that 4th place getting it, surely? How can a team that finishes 18th who may have had an easier run to the final, enter a competiton but the fourth best team in the country doesn't?
Dan Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 Exactly and these owners only go on £ signs. Speak their language and you'd soon see a shift on emphasis and more leniency on managers failing to finish in the top 4 or get promotion. Yep, totally agree there and that's why even as wrong as it may be morally, I'd award the winner a 'Champions' League place simply because it will go a way to reviving without a doubt the best domestic trophy on the planet.
ScouseFox Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 You may as well just end the competition if clubs need more of an incentive than actually WINNING THE FA CUP.
Dan Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 You may as well just end the competition if clubs need more of an incentive than actually WINNING THE FA CUP. Foreign businessmen don't speak that language. I wish they did but they just don't.
Craig Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 Just throwing the other argument in there, I get that top teams take it more seriously if CL is on offer but if Wigan had qualified for Champions League by winning it then that is worse that 4th place getting it, surely? How can a team that finishes 18th who may have had an easier run to the final, enter a competiton but the fourth best team in the country doesn't? But then, why should the team that finishes fourth in a competition get into the Champions League, when the champions of the 'greatest domestic cup competition in the world' don't?
ScouseFox Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 Just throwing the other argument in there, I get that top teams take it more seriously if CL is on offer but if Wigan had qualified for Champions League by winning it then that is worse that 4th place getting it, surely? How can a team that finishes 18th who may have had an easier run to the final, enter a competiton but the fourth best team in the country doesn't? Yes but let's be honest Wigan would NEVER, ever win the FA Cup if it offered a CL place. Ever. Everyone would play a strongest XI and the quarter finals onwards would be 100% top half Prem teams. Every year.
Kitchandro Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 I've not seen attendance stats for today, but in light of Lamberts comments, the shite turn out by Stoke fans and the resting of players not only by ourselves but any other side with some sort of ambition this season, how would you improve the competition? I shan't go into my Sky and their ruining of football tirade too much, I think most know my thoughts on that. But if playing in the prem next season wasn't the be all and end all for us and other clubs, if the main prem sides were less bothered about finishing in the top 4 each season I reckon this famous 'magic' of the cup I so rarely see nowadays would come back. I'd love the FA and PL to reduce the CL qualification from 1st-4th to 1st-3rd, with the winner of the FA Cup getting the 4th spot. You could even push the boat out and say the 1st-2nd in the prem get two spots with the winners and runners up of the cup getting the other two. It may not change much more often than not as its usually a CL English side who win the thing. But the incentives would be there. For managers, players and fans. The Europa Cup is usually sneered at anyway so doesn't offer much of an incentive to teams competing for 4th and higher spot. Thoughts? Completely agree, I think giving a spot to the Cup winners is a great idea. Do I think it would ever happen? Honestly, no. Clubs wouldn't even be able to say their finances would suffer if they got relegated - winning the FA Cup and getting the CL money would be better than staying up. The 'Champions' League is a joke anyway, is it right that sides like Chelsea and Liverpool in recent years have been crowned the best team in Europe?
Kitchandro Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 To be honest, I don't see the reward of playing in the Europa League as a bad thing. It's a European competition, you get to play against some top teams from other nations. It's fine as a reward. To me, the glory of going to Wembley, winning a trophy, being the best at something is enough in itself. Having a name engraved on the trophy, fantastic. You don't get to play against top teams though, you get to play against second rate minnows who have done ok it shit leagues. I've not heard of half the Europa League teams. What's the point in a European competition that's just for also rans? I wouldn't want us to be in it - shit crowds, crap clubs, many, many, many tedious matches and a route so long to the later stages it's painful. To you those things are enough, but it isn't enough for the clubs themselves. Something needs to be done to save this competition, IMO.
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