Established Premier League clubs?

[davieG]

Plenty of people on here talk about becoming an established PL club. My view is that under the present financial structure there are only between 6 to 8 clubs that can realistically say the are there to stay.

 

Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, Man Utd and Spurs have been their since day one, 1992. you can add Man City (2002) to them, I think we can say they are established.

 

 Villa have also been there since 1992 but there stay looks every more at risk, there's also Fulham (2001) and there stay looks like it's about to end this May.

 

The rest Sunderland (2007), Stoke (2008), WBA, Newcastle (2010), Norwich, Swansea (2011), WHU, Southampton, (2012), Cardiff, Hull, Crystal Palace (2013) I wouldn't class as being settled or established as any of them could easily be candidates for relegation in the next couple of years.

 

So anyone hoping that we'll be able to establish ourselves with any degree of certainty is looking for fools gold in my view.

 

You could take a view that lasting 5 years is being established but we know to our cost how easy it can all fall apart.

[shade]

wage cap!

[Charl91]

I'd say being an established premier league club doesn't necessarily mean that you spend all your time in the prem, just most of it, and that when you do come down you don't spend a decade in the championship. 

[davieG]

I'd say being an established premier league club doesn't necessarily mean that you spend all your time in the prem, just most of it, and that when you do come down you don't spend a decade in the championship. 

Not something you can rely on though is it. Yo-yoing between leagues is hardly being settled and established and usually results in both managerial and player upheaval. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

everton, liverpool, spurs, arsenal, man utd, chelsea, aston villa (though they are in danger under lambert), newcastle - debatable.

[Webbo]

I think we all know that if we last between 5 and 10 years we'll have done alright.

[Stadt]

It does seem that clubs have a 3 or 4 year spell and then get sucked in to the relegation battle.

I'd say that a club that is in a position where there are 5 clubs that are worse than them are about as close to 'established' as you can get.

[davieG]

everton, liverpool, spurs, arsenal, man utd, chelsea, aston villa (though they are in danger under lambert), newcastle - debatable.

Newcastle have only been back there since 2010 and haven't looked comfortable at all. Man city can now be classed as. established

[davieG]

I think we all know that if we last between 5 and 10 years we'll have done alright.

 

 

It does seem that clubs have a 3 or 4 year spell and then get sucked in to the relegation battle.

I'd say that a club that is in a position where there are 5 clubs that are worse than them are about as close to 'established' as you can get.

Could you use that as justification for extending the stadium based on being established?

 

As said in the Stadium thread if they do extend it will be on the basis of more executive boxes, posh seating and entertainment rooms etc not bigger crowds as such.

[Iwan is a Welshman]

I don't think "established" means certainty that you're going to stay up next season. I think it means you've been up there long enough to tuck away some of the vast treasures and to start to plan a little more ambitiously. Like Stoke did when they sacked Pulis.

Of course, it doesn't always work out.

[Langston]

I think Southampton will be there to stay for the foreseeable, they've got great potential there running through the place, and all the exciting prospects they're blooding are on contracts longer than I dare to think. I'd quite like them to keep up there, too.

[Stadt]

Could you use that as justification for extending the stadium based on being established?

As said in the Stadium thread if they do extend it will be on the basis of more executive boxes, posh seating and entertainment rooms etc not bigger crowds as such.

Probably not, there's probably only 6/7 clubs that will be no where relegation in the next 10 years.

[davieG]

I think Southampton will be there to stay for the foreseeable, they've got great potential there running through the place, and all the exciting prospects they're blooding are on contracts longer than I dare to think. I'd quite like them to keep up there, too.

Weren't people saying things like this about Swansea and WBA and they're now in the relegation mix

[Captain...]

I think Southampton will be there to stay for the foreseeable, they've got great potential there running through the place, and all the exciting prospects they're blooding are on contracts longer than I dare to think. I'd quite like them to keep up there, too.

But their owner has just left and their are big doubts over the manager staying as if was a good mate of the owner someone comes sniffing around him he has no loyalty to the new owners, most of the players would have been loyal to Adkins not so much now, and new owner new ideas a few poor results big clubs sniffing around bad investments in overpaid players, they have already had one big signing get shipped for a fighting with his teammate. They are not established and are as likely to collapse over the next few years as become an established team.

We shouldn't be aiming to become an established team, our goal is to get to the prem, and the next season stay there, then the following season. There will be short term goals set every season. Our long term goal should be to become financially self sufficient, and not spiral into debt and disaster should of get relegated. Every contract ever signed whilst in the prem should have a relegation clause into it. The only teams that don't need to do that are the teams mentioned by Davieg.

Promotion followed by relegation should not be feared as the end of the world, we will be 63million+ better off, with a further 60 coming in parachute payments. Promotion then a disastrous campaign where we sack the manager bring in Redknapp, spend more money than we have spend it badly, sell off our promising talents and replace them with a bunch of quick fix mercenaries, chasing survival that sets us back 5 years and sees our debts spiral out of control is the only thing we must not do. Hopefully they will have learnt from Sven.

How many people would stick by Pearson and the core of this team if we get promoted then look like we will go straight back down?

[Fez of Mahrez]

Southampton are the obvious yardstick. As others have said, it might be built on sand with their ownership issue at the moment but they play a similar style to us in some ways, have retained a lot of players from their Football League days and their stadium is practically identical.

[Kitchandro]

I consider Stoke & Fulham established (until this season when Fulham look doomed).

 

They've spent a good few years up there and most years haven't looked relegation troubled.

 

Being an established top flight club has nothing to do with stadium expansion though. Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds haven't been in the top flight for ages and no one complains about the size of their stadiums.

[Webbo]

Could you use that as justification for extending the stadium based on being established?

 

As said in the Stadium thread if they do extend it will be on the basis of more executive boxes, posh seating and entertainment rooms etc not bigger crowds as such.

I don't see the point of extending the stadium anyway.

[Kitchandro]

Also, I think the point of this thread highlights why the cups should be given more respect. Relegation is very likely for most clubs sooner or later, but the glory of winning a trophy lasts forever.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Plenty of people on here talk about becoming an established PL club. My view is that under the present financial structure there are only between 6 to 8 clubs that can realistically say the are there to stay.

 

Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, Man Utd and Spurs have been their since day one, 1992. you can add Man City (2002) to them, I think we can say they are established.

 

 Villa have also been there since 1992 but there stay looks every more at risk, there's also Fulham (2001) and there stay looks like it's about to end this May.

 

The rest Sunderland (2007), Stoke (2008), WBA, Newcastle (2010), Norwich, Swansea (2011), WHU, Southampton, (2012), Cardiff, Hull, Crystal Palace (2013) I wouldn't class as being settled or established as any of them could easily be candidates for relegation in the next couple of years.

 

So anyone hoping that we'll be able to establish ourselves with any degree of certainty is looking for fools gold in my view.

 

You could take a view that lasting 5 years is being established but we know to our cost how easy it can all fall apart.

I have to agree Davie G. You, like myself have been around long enough to realize the degree of difficulty in establishing ones self in the Premiership. Apart from the sixties, which was without doubt our strongest era, and we witnessed it (Were we not privileged Davie)?, then we have a history of being a yo yo team, with the majority of our time in the lower division.

 

For all you youngsters, and slightly more mature, it is a MASSIVE step upwards, and so very hard to attain, and maintain such a high grade of football.

 

Let us enjoy our season now, but come this time next year the euphoria will doubtless turn to concern. I am not saying we will be relegated, but we will, if history repeats itself, be on the back foot.

 

In a nut shell, don't expect miracles, but if we are very lucky, and survive  three or four seasons, then maybe, just maybe, we could have an era akin to the sixties. Let us all hope so.

[Kitchandro]

I don't see the point of extending the stadium anyway.

 

The only real reason to is to make it better. Making it bigger isn't necessary.

[deanolegend1989]

Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton - These 7 are established.

 

Id say Aston Villa/Newcastle/Sunderland and maybe West Ham despite having troubles and relegations at times count as well because they are big clubs and will spend the majority of their time in the top flight and if they go down come up quick.

 

The rest Id say are all the same as us...Fulham have had a good run but if they went down could quite easily stay down for a decade and more. Stoke are the same. fairly established currently but all can change.

 

Us, Derby, Forest, Shef Wed, Leeds all of us were established in the 90s but things change..Wigan, Fulham, Stoke, to name a few have had their period in the 00s or now etc, not many sustain it and doubt many will be able to bar the top 7 and a few other pretty big clubs.

[Kitchandro]

I have to agree Davie G. You, like myself have been around long enough to realize the degree of difficulty in establishing ones self in the Premiership. Apart from the sixties, which was without doubt our strongest era, and we witnessed it (Were we not privileged Davie)?, then we have a history of being a yo yo team, with the majority of our time in the lower division.

 

For all you youngsters, and slightly more mature, it is a MASSIVE step upwards, and so very hard to attain, and maintain such a high grade of football.

 

Let us enjoy our season now, but come this time next year the euphoria will doubtless turn to concern. I am not saying we will be relegated, but we will, if history repeats itself, be on the back foot.

 

In a nut shell, don't expect miracles, but if we are very lucky, and survive  three or four seasons, then maybe, just maybe, we could have an era akin to the sixties. Let us all hope so.

 

Hardly. We spent most of the 70s in the top division. We spent as much time in the 90s in the top division as out of it. The 80s was pretty much the same.

 

Since the 60s the only eras that have really blotted our copy book is the last 10 years and the late 80s, and the only yo yoing we've done has been in very short spells (up down, up or down, up, down then extended period in a league).

 

I find the term yo yoing very inaccurate for us unless you're talking about pre 60s.

 

We do seem to get relegated an awful lot, no doubt. I find it rather frustrating in recent years that the likes of Fulham, Bolton, Stoke and Wigan have spent long periods in the Premiership, whereas post O'Neill we surrendered our top flight status oh so easily. We have a strange habit of turning to shit very quickly and shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

Anyway, there's no reason we can't stay up for as long as Wigan and Fulham have done. Of course, we could easily get relegated, too. But as far as I'm concerned if they can do it, we should be able to do it. It would help if we can avoid appointing a Peter Taylor, Dave Bassett or Frank McClintock.

[Langston]

Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton - These 7 are established.

 

Id say Aston Villa/Newcastle/Sunderland and maybe West Ham despite having troubles and relegations at times count as well because they are big clubs and will spend the majority of their time in the top flight and if they go down come up quick.

 

The rest Id say are all the same as us...Fulham have had a good run but if they went down could quite easily stay down for a decade and more. Stoke are the same. fairly established currently but all can change.

 

Us, Derby, Forest, Shef Wed, Leeds all of us were established in the 90s but things change..Wigan, Fulham, Stoke, to name a few have had their period in the 00s or now etc, not many sustain it and doubt many will be able to bar the top 7 and a few other pretty big clubs.

 

I'd go as far as to say Villa are established despite not setting the world alight recently, they've been in the top-flight for as long as I can remember.

[Kitchandro]

Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton - These 7 are established.

 

Id say Aston Villa/Newcastle/Sunderland and maybe West Ham despite having troubles and relegations at times count as well because they are big clubs and will spend the majority of their time in the top flight and if they go down come up quick.

 

The rest Id say are all the same as us...Fulham have had a good run but if they went down could quite easily stay down for a decade and more. Stoke are the same. fairly established currently but all can change.

 

Us, Derby, Forest, Shef Wed, Leeds all of us were established in the 90s but things change..Wigan, Fulham, Stoke, to name a few have had their period in the 00s or now etc, not many sustain it and doubt many will be able to bar the top 7 and a few other pretty big clubs.

 

But Sunderland and West Ham are always struggling, how are they established? That sounds more like yo-yoing than us.

 

They've got a lot of fans but they're just as susceptible to relegations and even long periods out of the top flight as us, Leeds, Forest etc.

[conLAD logan]

Just out of interest does anyone have any ideas to what they may think is the key to becoming an established prem team?