Which Political Party Do You Side With?

[Strokes]

Most of the more incompatible immigrant cultures are from outside of the EU.

How is that relevant, we can select anyone outside the EU based on whatever suitability is required at the time. If they are from the EU and incompatible, we have no choice (that's the problem).

[MooseBreath]

How is that relevant, we can select anyone outside the EU based on whatever suitability is required at the time. If they are from the EU and incompatible, we have no choice (that's the problem).

It's relevant because most of the social and economic problems caused by immigration are due to non-eu immigrants. Coming out of the EU won't make any difference.

[Buce]

How is that relevant, we can select anyone outside the EU based on whatever suitability is required at the time. If they are from the EU and incompatible, we have no choice (that's the problem).

It becomes relevant when another EU country allows in 'incompatible' immigrants from non-EU countries, because there is then nothing to prevent them from coming here.

[Strokes]

It becomes relevant when another EU country allows in 'incompatible' immigrants from non-EU countries, because there is then nothing to prevent them from coming here.

Another great argument for not being part of the union.

[bovril]

A lot of the Italians and Spanish that come to the UK aren't actually Italian or Spanish.

[Buce]

Another great argument for not being part of the union.

You may be surprised to learn that I agree with you, Strokes.

[Strokes]

You may be surprised to learn that I agree with you, Strokes.

It has caught me off guard somewhat yes . Are you in the out mindset, or after reform?

[Buce]

It has caught me off guard somewhat yes . Are you in the out mindset, or after reform?

Tbh, I'm undecided, mate. I'm not a great fan of multi-culturalism, or of the freedom of movement (at least in its current form).

My concern is that I might be just too thick to understand the economic arguments for staying in.

[Rincewind]

No Liberals on the list? Not the Lib Dems The real ones. http://www.liberal.org.uk/index.htm

 

They even have a list of policies.

 

I think I have already done this. Can't remember who my top ones were but I can guess who it wasn't.

[ADK]

I think we need to think about how we can safeguard British people from the negative effects of the freedom of movement of labour rather than champing at the bit to make ourselves a less attractive place to do business.

[Strokes]

My concern is that I might be just too thick to understand the economic arguments for staying in.

, who are you and what have you done with buce.

I don't think its possible to draw comparisons from anywhere, which is what makes it so hard.

[Buce]

, who are you and what have you done with buce.

I don't think its possible to draw comparisons from anywhere, which is what makes it so hard.

Don't worry - normal service will resume as soon as possible..

Joking aside, I think this issue cuts across political affiliations; I know a lot of people, further left than me, who feel the same.

[Guest MattP]

Don't worry - normal service will resume as soon as possible..

Joking aside, I think this issue cuts across political affiliations; I know a lot of people, further left than me, who feel the same.

They should be, the impact of the EU'S economic and movement policies have really affected the working poor more than anyone.

I've found it quite strange a lot of the left almost seem to have positioned themselves on the pro EU side just to try and show they aren't racist, it's very weird.

[Alf Bentley]

They should be, the impact of the EU'S economic and movement policies have really affected the working poor more than anyone.

I've found it quite strange a lot of the left almost seem to have positioned themselves on the pro EU side just to try and show they aren't racist, it's very weird.

 

On the working poor and free movement of labour within the EU, you have a point. The data on pay for low-skilled work does suggest that EU migration exerts some downward pressure on pay.....though restricting migration is only one way of dealing with that (higher minimum wage, more checks on employers and stronger unions are also options). In contrast, data suggests that very few EU migrants come here to sponge benefits (overwhelmingly, they come here to work). Stress on public services is an issue short-term, but just part of tax/spend policy decisions in the medium-term - and migrants make a large net contribution in tax to fund investment in public services. 

 

Free movement of labour is only aspect of EU policy, though. For all its many faults, until the 2008 financial crash the EU was proving quite successful economically - widespread long-term growth, and a great degree of economic convergence between the less developed EU countries and Northern Europe, creating a virtuous circle of further growth. That success was imperfect and incomplete, and it has been derailed by the financial crisis and Euro crisis, but should not be forgotten.

 

UKIP seem to be increasingly conflating opposition to the EU with opposition to immigration. That is probably benefiting them now, but I'm not sure that it will at the general election. There are some votes to be gained from being the "anti-immigration party", but a lot more to be gained from being the "power to the people party" (apologies to Citizen Smith) with constructive alternatives to offer voters alienated from both Brussels and Westminster.

 

However, your suggestion that a lot of the left are pro-EU just to show they aren't racist is on a par with me suggesting that a lot of people vote Tory just because they are greedy and selfish or that they vote UKIP because they are racist bigots. There are lefties who fit your caricature (I probably did myself when I was 19 - but then you say you were a liberal at that age!), just as there are Tory and UKIP voters who fit the caricature, but in most cases it is much more complicated than that. Many on the left are instinctively internationalist, just as many on the right are instinctively nationalist (though the two aren't mutually exclusive), but that's different. That's more a case of working with other countries to our mutual benefit, and maybe enjoying the diversity that comes with that, without losing your own national identity - as opposed to being instinctively suspicious of foreigners. There's also an awareness that we might continue to become more prosperous through cooperation in Europe - and an awareness that the likes of UKIP aren't really common sense patriotic pragmatists promoting the interests of all English people. They want to promote the interests of people who share their views. They see English lefties as just as alien as Slovakian migrants!

 

I say that as someone who'd be a "swing voter" in any EU in-out referendum. I'd probably vote to stay in, but would want to hear the arguments - and think Labour should support a referendum. Likewise, immigration is something that absolutely should be discussed, alongside other important issues like the budget deficit, falling living standards & NHS spending, not least as the Tories seem to be making an even bigger mess of border control than Labour: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29805830

[Guest MattP]

Did you see any of PMQ's today? Very strange, three or four Labour backbenchers tearing into Cameron on immigration, they seem be starting to try and position themselves as a party thats going to control the borders, how they are going to achieve this with no change to EU migration law is going to be an interesting viewpoint.

 

I'd say everything was actually going fine until the new block of countries joined the freedom of movement act (think it was 2005) that was the turning point, yuo could feel the change around then and despite the economic side still looking ok until the financial crash the lowest paid were starting to feel it a couple of years before, cheap labour is good for an economy, I don't think there is any doubt about that and if you look at all the major financial powerhouses of the World they have all benefitted from it at some point, it's not good for those at the bottom though and it certainly doesn't make it right.

 

Last point you make - on the subject of the Labour party's current guarantee of an EU in.out referendum if a major transfer of powers went again to Brussels, Andrew Neil made a great point on how would one vote if they wanted to still stay in but disagreed with the transfer of power in question? The guy struggled to answer that question obviously.

 

I don't know why 'suspicion of foreigners' keeps being mentioned whenever you mention UKIP or a conversation , I think that's long in the past now, UKIP are clearly far more than a 'suspicious of foreigners' party (if they ever were) these days, if anything I'd say they are an anti-Westminster party, almost the same rhetoric coming out that the SNP used, I spoke to a couple of people in my local last Saturday who both say they are voting UKIP next May and despite numerous small political converstions immigration has never came up.

 

A lot of people are in danger (again) of actually missing the point on why a lot people are voting UKIP, immigration and Europe actually isn't the reason for a lot of people at the moment (although last week's bill would have shifted a few), if they were concerned about those things they were probably voting for them two years back, not just switching to them now, different issues are picking up new voters and that's often the thought of complete change to our political system.

[Alf Bentley]

I'm sure there is indeed a general and justified "anti-Westminster" mood in the country. Also a general mood of discontent as, for many people, living standards are falling and incomes are insecure.

 

UKIP is benefiting from that mood of discontent (unfortunately). It's also benefiting from the  main opposition party (Labour) not yet having presented a coherent alternative to the failing status quo....maybe they will, but they'd better get a move on!

 

UKIP is clearly starting to develop policies in areas other than Europe and immigration, but you rarely hear about them. Some of that may be due to a lack of media coverage (this may also apply to Labour policies). However, I've just had a quick look at the UKIP web site: http://www.ukip.org/index

They prioritise 5 policy issues....and every single one is about Europe and/or immigration! 

 

I'm increasingly convinced that the election will be decided by what Labour and UKIP do and say over the next 6 months. I agree with your post elsewhere that the Tories will almost certainly get 30%-35% of the vote, Lib Dem vote will slump, SNP vote will rise.....it's the Labour and UKIP vote that is still unpredictable. Whichever of them presents a convincing alternative to the Tory status quo will boost its vote.....that means going beyond isolated issues, however important those issues might be (NHS and living standards for Labour; Europe and immigration for UKIP). If Labour can inch their vote up by 2-3% on the polls, they could win; if UKIP can convince enough people that they really get 18% nationwide, they'll have a big impact and, depending on the vagaries of seats won, they could have an influence in parliament. According to current polls, it'll be a hung parliament, Labour the biggest party but unable to form a coalition with the Lib Dems, so needing either UKIP or the SNP....someone was recommending a vote on 1974 revisited (2 elections within a year): bet available at 10-1, apparently!

[MooseBreath]

A more detailed look at UKIP policies here: http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people

It all seems a bit haphazard to me. Lowering tax on mid-high earners, raising the tax free allowance and abolishing inheritance tax all sounds great but would cost an absolute fortune. Are cuts to things like renewable energy subsidies a sustainable way to pay for tax cuts? Doesn't seem logical to me.

Nothing in there that specifically relates to how they intend to grow the economy or how any economic growth is going to be reflected in gross wages.

There's a whole raft of policies that are a pretty obvious attempt at buying the military vote (it's either that or they're planning some serious war mongering, with who? Why?), again without much explanation as to how it would be paid for.

The bulk of the policies are related to the EU. If UKIP are serious about anything other than coming out of the EU, they'll have to do a lot better to convince people. If they're serious about immigration and solving the problems it causes, the complete ommission of any policy relating to non-EU migrants is plain strange.

I'm still a long way from convinced that UKIP are anything more than a standard fringe party, exactly the same as the lib dems, promising the earth with a load of populist policies, but ultimately capable of delivering very little.

[leicsmac]

I'm sure there is indeed a general and justified "anti-Westminster" mood in the country. Also a general mood of discontent as, for many people, living standards are falling and incomes are insecure.

 

UKIP is benefiting from that mood of discontent (unfortunately). It's also benefiting from the  main opposition party (Labour) not yet having presented a coherent alternative to the failing status quo....maybe they will, but they'd better get a move on!

 

UKIP is clearly starting to develop policies in areas other than Europe and immigration, but you rarely hear about them. Some of that may be due to a lack of media coverage (this may also apply to Labour policies). However, I've just had a quick look at the UKIP web site: http://www.ukip.org/index

They prioritise 5 policy issues....and every single one is about Europe and/or immigration! 

 

I'm increasingly convinced that the election will be decided by what Labour and UKIP do and say over the next 6 months. I agree with your post elsewhere that the Tories will almost certainly get 30%-35% of the vote, Lib Dem vote will slump, SNP vote will rise.....it's the Labour and UKIP vote that is still unpredictable. Whichever of them presents a convincing alternative to the Tory status quo will boost its vote.....that means going beyond isolated issues, however important those issues might be (NHS and living standards for Labour; Europe and immigration for UKIP). If Labour can inch their vote up by 2-3% on the polls, they could win; if UKIP can convince enough people that they really get 18% nationwide, they'll have a big impact and, depending on the vagaries of seats won, they could have an influence in parliament. According to current polls, it'll be a hung parliament, Labour the biggest party but unable to form a coalition with the Lib Dems, so needing either UKIP or the SNP....someone was recommending a vote on 1974 revisited (2 elections within a year): bet available at 10-1, apparently!

 

 

I'd stick a few bob on that right away.

[Darkon84]

Feel free to merge with any other political/quiz threads if necessary.

 

I stumbled across this quiz regarding political policies, and found it far more interesting and in depth than most of the others that I've crossed or have seen crop up on here. You can pick and choose which kinds of policies you'd like to be surveyed on too, which can lead to it taking a fair while, but if you're interested in the subjects, quite worthwhile.

 

I elected to look at the following policies:

Economy

Environment

Europe

Foreign Policy/Defence

Health/NHS

Immigration

 

Rather oddly, I came back with 83.3% UKIP and 16.7% Green Party   I wasn't expecting that.

 

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/1/select-issues

[RedSoxUK]

Not sure how you ended up with a UKIP / Green Party mix.

[Grewks]

A third equally shared between Green's, ukip and lib dems.

 

 

 

 

Strange considering I'd never vote anything other than labour or tory.

Not sure how you ended up with a UKIP / Green Party mix.

 

easily done.

[Guest MattP]

Not sure how you ended up with a UKIP / Green Party mix.

 

Wants to deport an illegal immigrant but make him cycle back?

 

I'll have a go at this later but I'm very dodgy about these things and you can easily select each parties most popular (and oftenly unrealistic) policies to get a better result for the party you want, I'm sure people would lap up the extra 3billion NHS spending promised by UKIP and the Greens but might be slightly less receptive to a huge increase in taxes, legalising membership of terrorist groups and turning army bases into nature reserves.

 

You could do one of these properly but in reality it would take hours to complete and have to be done by someone completely independent.

[ramboacdc]

Green Party 50%

Conservatives 20%

Labour 20%

UKIP 10%

 

 

....well ****

[Darkon84]

It does give you an approximate length of time it will take, depending on how many policies you'd like to review/be quizzed upon. The estimated time it gave me for the ones I selected was 25mins, which I didn't think was too unreasonable, with all of them taking 55mins I think.

 

Basically, I ended up agreeing with UKIP on all of the policies I selected, apart from the environment. Again, I'm a little surprised by it. Ah well.

[RedSoxUK]

A third equally shared between Green's, ukip and lib dems.

 

 

 

 

Strange considering I'd never vote anything other than labour or tory.

 

easily done.

 

So it seems!

 

I guess it's more of a select 'pick your favourite policies thing'.