Hodgson Out?

[Jimothy]

The problem isn't that players like Shaw are costing Man Utd nearly £30m, it's the fact he's made that move at all that's the problem. He's just had a very good season at Southampton where he has played nearly all their games and has learnt a lot. On the basis of that he got into the England World Cup squad. You telling me he'll play most weeks for Man Utd, when they still have Evra on the books? Of course he won't. He's gone from playing week in week out, to hardly playing at all. How's that gonna help his development, and therefore England? We've seen it happen a lot in recent years especially, with bigger teams snapping up English talent to buff out their squad, mainly due to the homegrown quota in the 25 Man squads, whether they have a use for them or not. Sinclair, Rodwell, Johnson, Milner, Sidwell, Jones, Smalling, all moved in recent years from teams where they were getting decent game time to teams they barely got a look in. That's all quotas do, make the big boys splash the cash on young English talent whether they really want or need to, just to buff out the squad and fill in he gaps, either with homegrown players over 23 who count towards the quota or with homegrown youngsters under 21 who don't need to be declared in the squad,

So let's just get more qualified coaches. Let's let some of the changes implemented to improve our youth players bare fruit, such as st George's park. And most of all let's let our younger player learn their trade, and earn their moves to big teams, rather than moving way too early and not getting game time and being stifled. People talk about quotas forcing a certain amount of English starters, but how about sanctioning clubs like Man Utd who snap up other teams first teamers and don't play them. Why not fine them if Shaw doesn't play a certain percentage of games he's available for next season? It would certainly make them think twice about throwing money around and signing anyone half decent with an English passport just to stick them in the reserves.

[Jimmy]

I'm glad the luck part didn't come in, the FA have no excuses this time... This was the worst performance since 1958, hope they start to wake up to the fact we are no longer considered a force in world football. All other points are certainly the reason for our failures... but the FA just choose to ignore them

really I'd say 1994 was far worse

[Grandad.]

Imagine if our boys played with as much heart and desire as the Chileans, Mexicans, Greeks, Algerians and Americans in their second round defeats? We may have even made the 1/4 Finals!

Shocking and even more embarrassing now.

Hodgson has to go and Klinsmann or Neville makes even more sense now.

[Guest MattP]

Imagine if our boys played with as much heart and desire as the Chileans, Mexicans, Greeks, Algerians and Americans in their second round defeats? We may have even made the 1/4 Finals!

Shocking and even more embarrassing now.

Hodgson has to go and Klinsmann or Neville makes even more sense now.

Would be a superb appointment, whether he would want to manage our lot though you have to wonder, he clearly loves the US lifestyle and it would be hard to leave a group of players like that who are prepared to die for you on the pitch to manage our lot who seem to see playing International football as a chore that comes with being a Premier League celebrity.

And if he didn't we'd probably try and chuck another load of money at him, so he'd be taking the job for the wrong reasons anyway.

[Grandad.]

Would be a superb appointment, whether he would want to manage our lot though you have to wonder, he clearly loves the US lifestyle and it would be hard to leave a group of players like that who are prepared to die for you on the pitch to manage our lot who seem to see playing International football as a chore that comes with being a Premier League celebrity.

And if he didn't we'd probably try and chuck another load of money at him, so he'd be taking the job for the wrong reasons anyway.

Agree with all of that.

Shame really.

[Guest MattP]

Agree with all of that.

Shame really.

Big shame.

I'm starting to come around to the Neville idea mind, thinking about it in reality I don't think we've got anything to lose anymore. May as well go with him and if he completely cocks up Euro 2016 we can bring in an experienced head for the World Cup in Russia.

After a long think the selections of Baines and Welbeck were nothing short of shambolic when you consider what else we have avaliable. You could probably make a case for saying the same about 2-3 others as well.

[Grandad.]

Big shame.

I'm starting to come around to the Neville idea mind, thinking about it in reality I don't think we've got anything to lose anymore. May as well go with him and if he completely cocks up Euro 2016 we can bring in an experienced head for the World Cup in Russia.

After a long think the selections of Baines and Welbeck were nothing short of shambolic when you consider what else we have avaliable. You could probably make a case for saying the same about 2-3 others as well.

Crazy thing I have only just realised today is, is the same thing the pundits keep referring too. Look at how many substitutes are changing games, either by scoring match winning goals or setting up a goal.

Which sub did that for us? Barkley had a few good glimpses.

We had nothing from the bench. Especially in the Italy game because Hodgson left it far too late.

The man is so far out of his depth with England it is seriously worrying how the FA can be confident with him.

The thing that worries me and I have asked it a few times on here without a reply, the media, pundits, current coaching staff and current players are saying we have made progress since 2012, seriously where have we made any progress? I am struggling to see any. A different style of play, which is still relatively negative is not progress in my eyes.

[Guest MattP]

Crazy thing I have only just realised today is, is the same thing the pundits keep referring too. Look at how many substitutes are changing games, either by scoring match winning goals or setting up a goal.

Which sub did that for us? Barkley had a few good glimpses.

We had nothing from the bench. Especially in the Italy game because Hodgson left it far too late.

The man is so far out of his depth with England it is seriously worrying how the FA can be confident with him.

The thing that worries me and I have asked it a few times on here without a reply, the media, pundits, current coaching staff and current players are saying we have made progress since 2012, seriously where have we made any progress? I am struggling to see any. A different style of play, which is still relatively negative is not progress in my eyes.

I haven't seen where we have made progress at all, if anything we have regressed over the last few years and the amount of players actually in the squad who don't even play regular first team football appears to be increasing year on year. Some have now even worked their way into the first team.

Great point about the subs and I agree he didn't change it anywhere near early enough. How Welbeck managed to get 70mins+ in both games was a mystery and Lambert being given all of 3 mins against Uruguay where we were crying out for a physical forward was strange. The other problem we seem to have is our creative players only look dangerous for a very short limited period of time.

The game against Costa Rica was the killer for me, that was a glimpse of the future, a side to take us into the next generation and we couldn't beat a team who were literally jogging around a pitch just making sure they didn't want to get beat by 3-4 and ensuring they didn't pick up yellow cards, they actually looked better than us for long periods. And this was Costa Rica, not Argentina.

Our forwards are nowhere near clinical enough either, 2 goals in 3 games (and both open goals) in the highest scoring World Cup ever. Ever other countries players seem to need 2-3 chances per goal, ours seem to need 5-6.

[Guest Col city fan]

Anyone who suggests that the England team has 'progressed' in any way is deluded. Completely embarassing World Cup for us and I have, finally, lost interest in the International set up. As long as they have Hodgson I'm really not bothered.

Some of the teams have been superb in their commitment, work-rate and team ethic. We've looked like what we are. A bunch of overpaid, over-hyped prima donnas.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

Klinsmann

What is the world coming to when people want a German in charge of England.

And I still don't see what he has done that's so good.

Semi-finals as Germany manager at a home World Cup is not that good.

Last 16 as USA manager which is what Bob Bradley did at the last World Cup.

[Corky]

Klinsmann

What is the world coming to when people want a German in charge of England.

And I still don't see what he has done that's so good.

Semi-finals as Germany manager at a home World Cup is not that good.

Last 16 as USA manager which is what Bob Bradley did at the last World Cup.

The world where viable English alternatives are thin on the ground.

Go for an Englishman and we try out a mid-table, steady manager or go for an unknown quantity.

[Grandad.]

Klinsmann

What is the world coming to when people want a German in charge of England.

And I still don't see what he has done that's so good.

Semi-finals as Germany manager at a home World Cup is not that good.

Last 16 as USA manager which is what Bob Bradley did at the last World Cup.

You really struggle in seeing the bigger picture don't you?

Do you remember how shit Germany were in Euro 2004? They were shocking, probably as bad as we are right now. In the space of a year, after completely changing their style, new backroom staff and not being afraid to drop the big names, he took Germany to a 3rd place finish in the Confederations Cup, after topping a group with Argentina in it.

Then onto the World Cup in 2006, won all three group games, then comfortably beat Sweden, beat Argentina (who were playing well) and then fell in Extra-Time to the eventual winners in Italy. So in 2 years as manager, Klinsmann took them from a shocking/embarrassing European Championship to a good campaign in the Confederations Cup and then to third in his countries own World Cup. Whilst completely changing the structure of German football, which lead to Joachim Low coming in as his successor.

Then we can see what Klinsmann has done with the US side, look at the desire they have had, he has coached their players to a new level, they are a much better side than they were in 2010 where they topped the group. He has got the majority of a nation who are not interested in football, invested in his side because they believed in his methods and his side.

Who do we currently have?

This complete clown.

[Guest MattP]

Klinsmann

What is the world coming to when people want a German in charge of England.

And I still don't see what he has done that's so good.

Semi-finals as Germany manager at a home World Cup is not that good.

Last 16 as USA manager which is what Bob Bradley did at the last World Cup.

One where we seek out the best man for the job rather than just give it to a mediocre one of our own nationality?

Comparing his job to Bradley's is ridiculous as well, look at the groups they had to get out of, Klinsmann was given a far tougher task.

[Grandad.]

Imagine having a manager with the balls to drop Wayne Rooney, how refreshing would that be?!

[Manwell Pablo]

Klinsman wont manage England. And when he spends the majority of the football season swanning around in America instead of watching Premeir League games like he did when he was in charge of Germany you'd all want him out anyway

[Grandad.]

Klinsman wont manage England. And when he spends the majority of the football season swanning around in America instead of watching Premeir League games like he did when he was in charge of Germany you'd all want him out anyway

A bit like Roy Hodgson then because he never watched the pissing games that mattered.

[Manwell Pablo]

A bit like Roy Hodgson then because he never watched the pissing games that mattered.

Sure he must of watched Liverpool a reasonable amount.

Certainly more than Jurgen the German would from his Californian pent house

[C-man]

Klinsmann

What is the world coming to when people want a German in charge of England.

And I still don't see what he has done that's so good.

Semi-finals as Germany manager at a home World Cup is not that good.

Last 16 as USA manager which is what Bob Bradley did at the last World Cup.

Maybe a non-xenophobic one where the inhabitants have brains?

It might mean we drop the awful '10 German bombers' chant so appointing Klinsmann gets my approval.

[Grandad.]

Sure he must of watched Liverpool a reasonable amount.

Certainly more than Jurgen the German would from his Californian pent house

Well Liverpool had no American players so I would hope Roy did watch us more, doubt it mind.

You can't argue with what Klinsmann has done in America, just like you can't argue with what he did for the German side post Euro 2004.

[Guest MattP]

Maybe a non-xenophobic one where the inhabitants have brains?

It might mean we drop the awful '10 German bombers' chant so appointing Klinsmann gets my approval.

Appointing Klinsmann wouldn't stop the chant at all

[Grandad.]

10 German Bombers will always be one of my most favourite chants. Fantastic!

[Manwell Pablo]

Well Liverpool had no American players so I would hope Roy did watch us more, doubt it mind.

You can't argue with what Klinsmann has done in America, just like you can't argue with what he did for the German side post Euro 2004.

No but it wont happen, and he wont magically fix all our problems.

And when he doesn't get the results that's the first thing people will be saying.

[Dan]

The more this World Cup goes on the more pissed off I am at how shit we really are. Utter embarrassment of a national side.

[Guest ttfn]

Imagine having a manager with the balls to drop Wayne Rooney, how refreshing would that be?!

Your best, most decorated player simply does not get dropped for a World Cup match. Even when Spain got rid of Raul it's not like they did so to play a bunch of kids. They built their new team around a spine of Xavi, (over 50 caps before Euro 2008), Casillas (over 80 caps), Torres (over 50 caps) and Puyol (over 50 caps).

Had Hodgson left out Rooney, his choices were Welbeck (24 caps before the start of the tournament and most people think he's shit), Sterling (3 caps), Lallana (6 caps) and Barkley (6 caps). Leaving out Rooney would have left our spine being Hart (41 caps), Cahill (25 caps), Gerrard (over 100) and Sturridge (about 10).

England have been fundamentally hamstrung by the failure to produce more than 1 or 2 decent players born between 1986 and 1989. These are the players reaching their prime around this World Cup (note Germany's Euro 2009 U21 side being heavily featured in their QF team this time round, along with France's famous class of 87), and apart from Hart (who being a goalkeeper we might actually expect to peak later), there is nobody who has accumulated decent international experience for the England national side who falls into this age bracket.

This in itself is a bit of a chicken and egg problem - the previous couple of generations (1975-1985) were pretty good on paper which meant that they were retained for a long period of time and have been hard to usurp. Perhaps Hodgson and Capello should take some blame for not blooding these players, but when you see the way that Hodgson has sought to integrate the 1990s bunch (Sturridge, Sterling, Barkley, Shaw etc.), it's clear that the will to do so is there as long as the pre-requisite quality exists in the choice of players. Obviously, however, the flip side is that previous generation's longevity and success at club level may have stifled the opportunities given to those born between 86 and 89 at international level, but does anybody really feel that Gabby Agbonlahor, for example, could have developed into a really good England player with more caps (except POTM, obviously). The only one I can think of is Leighton Baines, who looked completely out of his depth at this tournament (stretching my criteria a bit as well as he was born in 1984), but may well have benefited from experience in earlier tournaments and qualifiers but had his path blocked by a superb player in Ashley Cole.

People are criticising Hodgson for not coming out and saying that Lampard and Gerrard won't be selected for England any more, but they're needed to guide this next generation of players through because there are only 3 or 4 players aged between 25 and 30 (Milner, Hart, Rooney, Cahill) with a decent number of caps under the belts. And some people want rid of one of them (Rooney) and another has been constantly used a stick with which to beat this manager in particular (Milner, who would certainly have offered a lot against the Italians in Manaus and would have been perfect in the 4-3-3 that a lot of Hindsight Managers have suggested we should have used).

As much as it would be nice to think we could just place our faith in kids and let them run free and shoot us to glory, it's completely unrealistic to expect these guys to perform without experienced hands to guide them.

I was as frustrated as anybody at Rooney's lack of impact in the warm ups but he did more than enough to merit his place in the side in the 2 games he played and he also brings absolutely crucial experience - and with it a long history of actually winning stuff at club level - to a side which is desperately lacking players of the "right" age at the moment. Whilst he himself is definitely past his best, he is still a good player and his experience will be all the more important when Lampard and Gerrard eventually step aside.

Edit: It is also worth noting that Barkley, Sterling and Lallana have all only had their "breakthrough" seasons this year so could not reasonably have been expected to have been given more caps than they had at the start of the tournament. I should also have included Walcott in the list of players born between 1986 and 1989, but he was unfortunately unavailable for the World Cup.

[Grandad.]

Imagine if Glen Hoddle had that mind set when he left Gazza at home and dropping the senior striker in Teddy Sheringham for a young Michael Owen who had just had his breakthrough season.

Imagine if Sven has gone with the more capped, senior striker in Emile Heskey instead of Wayne Rooney at Euro 2004.

Rooney brought nothing to the England side, just like the majority of others didn't, Rooney and Gerrard have had amazing England careers, they have lead the country since around 2006, yeah we didn't qualify for Euro 2008 but they were the reasons we got to the World Cup in 2010, the Euros in 2012 and this disaster in Brazil.

Did Rooney deserve to stay on the pitch v Italy? No.

Did Rooney deserve to move our best player v Italy out of his position for the game v Uruguay? Again, no. Yeah he scored, so would anyone from that position into an empty goal.

If you honestly think Rooney should be a starter for England in a system that Roy seems to want to stick too (the 4-2-3-1) then that is your opinion, but if you think about it properly then you should understand there is no place for him or Welbeck in that system.