Danno Posted 25 June 2014 Share Posted 25 June 2014 I bloody love the notion that filling the England side with inferior players from the Football League will somehow provide a panacea for the perceived "lack of effort" from top flight players. Cliched nonsense. We need true English grit like Tom Huddlestone and Jake Livermore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 25 June 2014 Share Posted 25 June 2014 Germany weren't afraid of chucking Jurgen Klinsmann straight into managing their national side, he was a success for them. Was he really? Mourinho wants the job. Just need to suffer the hodge for another two years. Yesterday I wanted hodge sacked but the problem is if we sack him now we'll go and give someone else a four year deal and therefore miss the mourinho boat. I'm happy to suck up the hodge for two solid years if it means we eventually get to bang jose. Not English. And I'm sure Mourinho said he wants to manage Portugal anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad. Posted 25 June 2014 Share Posted 25 June 2014 Was he really? Er, yeah. Unless you would class finishing 3rd in your first tournament, losing in the semi-finals to the eventual winners in extra time, beginning the change in the structure of German football and losing just 6 games in his reign as unsuccessful then that's your opinion, it's a pretty wank opinion but there we go, nothing would surprise me with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tielemans63 Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 Hodgson saying today that he hopes Gerrard and Lampard don't fully retire so he can still call on them 'if needs be'. Sounds like he's got a clear strategy going forward then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-man Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 Was undecided on this for a few days after going out but I've now come down on the side of getting rid of Hodgson. I want a Director of Football Operations in on a long-term contract (someone like Hoddle) to oversee the restructuring of the Association's football development programme. Bin off this commission bollocks - what a waste of time, money and air they are. Then get in the best possible coach (English or not I do not give a fvck) we can get on renewable 2 year deals to focus solely on winning tournaments or at least going deep into them with the players we have at the time. If the coach fails, bin him and move on to the next one. Stating the blindingly obvious but consistency is not what is required for international teams. The notion of consistency is limited in club football as it is - even Fergie recognised his teams had a 4-year sell-by date - but I'd argue it's completely irrelevant at international level: the players simply do not get enough time together. Time to bin the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, the idea of Terry coming back, Johnson, Jagielka, Milner, Baines etc. Even Rooney can do one after the next Euros unless he suddenly relocates his touch of 2004. I'd be interested to see whether we can tempt Klinsmann away from the US. What he's done there with a stupendously average squad is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-man Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 Not English. And I'm sure Mourinho said he wants to manage Portugal anyway. Why does he have to be English? Are you content with the failings that the pitiful array of recent English England managers have put together? Real patriotic that. Don't bother coming back with Capello/Sven arguments as I've heard them all before and they are all flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 The two players who went as back up to Miami were players taken in the same positions Joel Ward and Curtis Davies play? So that is why they weren't considered. Let this sink in now people, Roy Hodgson now has a lower win % rate than Steve McClaren. That hasn't got anything to do with my point. If those two players had produced their kind of form at a top 7 side (where you're largely playing against the same opposition) then they'd have been considered. It's because they play for Hull and Palace that they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad. Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 That hasn't got anything to do with my point. If those two players had produced their kind of form at a top 7 side (where you're largely playing against the same opposition) then they'd have been considered. It's because they play for Hull and Palace that they aren't. Well they wouldn't get in them top 7 sides, simple as that. Joel Ward wouldn't get in ahead of any of the top 7 right backs and Curtis Davies isn't better than any of the centre backs. They were the stand out defenders in average Premier League sides, that is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 Well they wouldn't get in them top 7 sides, simple as that. Joel Ward wouldn't get in ahead of any of the top 7 right backs and Curtis Davies isn't better than any of the centre backs. They were the stand out defenders in average Premier League sides, that is it. And how do we know that? You reckon Ward (and he's had a very good season by all accounts) wouldn't get in ahead of Glen Johnson? I'm not saying taking Ward/Davies is necessarily the answer, but broadening our horizons in general would improve the team. POTM loves to bang on about how someone who can't get in West Brom's side captains Uruguay - a side who've beaten us and are outperforming us yet again. We don't build teams. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 Holland are another example - would we have the bollocks to pick players from Villa, Norwich and Swansea? No chance. They've done it, played them and they've topped the group largely regarded as the hardest in the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad. Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 And how do we know that? You reckon Ward (and he's had a very good season by all accounts) wouldn't get in ahead of Glen Johnson? I'm not saying taking Ward/Davies is necessarily the answer, but broadening our horizons in general would improve the team. POTM loves to bang on about how someone who can't get in West Brom's side captains Uruguay - a side who've beaten us and are outperforming us yet again. We don't build teams. At all. He probably would have but Joel Ward wouldn't get in ahead of Jon Flanagan who is a right back, so an irrelevant point. We don't build teams you are right, and that is down to the manager who is going around watching games every weekend and picking the squads, Roy Hodgson is the man ignoring these players you say. I remember one Sunday in April I think it was, I went into the Premier League thread moaning about the choice of games Hodgson was going to watch, people argued with me about it. The game I moaned about was him going to Fulham v Everton at Craven Cottage, only 3 English lads there were ever going to be considered, Stones, Barkley and Baines because Sidwell, Richardson and Osman were never going to be in contention. Later that afternoon at Anfield, Liverpool played Spurs there were 9 English lads who started and another two came on and got good minutes.. The list of the players are Johnson, Flanagan, Gerrard, Henderson, Sterling, Sturridge, Naughton, Rose, Lennon, Townsend and Dawson. Which game really that day would of been more beneficial for England and Roy Hodgson? Oh wait, he chose going back to Craven Cottage because he is adored there for a Europa League Final. The FA and Roy Hodgson are clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 Holland are another example - would we have the bollocks to pick players from Villa, Norwich and Swansea? No chance. They've done it, played them and they've topped the group largely regarded as the hardest in the competition. Certainly spot on there. They weren't afraid to pick De Guzman and start him were they? Club he played for didn't matter. Had he been English he would be sat at home as we selected more shite on the bench from the top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Post Gerry Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 Don't chuck the baby out with the bathwater. We played okay against Italy and got narrowly beat by a pretty good Uruguay team. Yes our defending wasn't great, but with a bit more luck or a better draw, we could've easily got to the quarters or further. We're def making progress compared to the dross we served up under Capello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 we have a decent crop of defenders emerging too which this tournament came a year too early for, the likes of John Stones, John Flannagan were on the stand by list then there's our own Liam, who is he starts for us and excels could make the jump to the full squad by Christmas, there are others as well, some of them need to grow a pair and leave the United (and other clubs) reserve team/fringe squad though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 26 June 2014 Share Posted 26 June 2014 Was undecided on this for a few days after going out but I've now come down on the side of getting rid of Hodgson. I want a Director of Football Operations in on a long-term contract (someone like Hoddle) to oversee the restructuring of the Association's football development programme. Bin off this commission bollocks - what a waste of time, money and air they are. This is what Robbie Savage said the other day, although your point is made far more eloquently. Savage just kept making a triangle shape with his hands and barking the words "Hoddle" and "proper structure", staring helplessly around the studio as though terrified by having to string a sentence together to the point where he made Shearer look like some sort of debating genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 27 June 2014 Share Posted 27 June 2014 Er, yeah. Unless you would class finishing 3rd in your first tournament, losing in the semi-finals to the eventual winners in extra time, beginning the change in the structure of German football and losing just 6 games in his reign as unsuccessful then that's your opinion, it's a pretty wank opinion but there we go, nothing would surprise me with you. Success for Germany is winning trophies or at least getting to the final. Semi-finals on home soil is really not that good by Germany's standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 27 June 2014 Share Posted 27 June 2014 Why does he have to be English? Are you content with the failings that the pitiful array of recent English England managers have put together? Real patriotic that. Don't bother coming back with Capello/Sven arguments as I've heard them all before and they are all flawed. Because it's the English national team. It's international football not club football. I'd rather have any English manager than have Mourinho or any foreigner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 27 June 2014 Share Posted 27 June 2014 Success for Germany is winning trophies or at least getting to the final. Semi-finals on home soil is really not that good by Germany's standards. Despite the lack of trophies in recent years, Germany's development and record under Löw is still a success story - compare that to England's stuttering motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samilktray Posted 27 June 2014 Share Posted 27 June 2014 Why be sarcastic? He makes a good point. Look at Ings. Couldn't be any worse than Sturridge. How did I miss this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 27 June 2014 Share Posted 27 June 2014 Despite the lack of trophies in recent years, Germany's development and record under Löw is still a success story - compare that to England's stuttering motor. Absolutely right. Which team would you rather be supporting at the moment, (given whether you were German or English)? Germany are streets ahead of England and I think will be for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfanazer Posted 27 June 2014 Share Posted 27 June 2014 I can't imagine him to be much of a motivator. Seems too much of a nice guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 27 June 2014 Share Posted 27 June 2014 Despite the lack of trophies in recent years, Germany's development and record under Löw is still a success story - compare that to England's stuttering motor. Not really. They still haven't won anything since 1996. Low is the first Germany manager to have over 100 games in charge and not win anything. Nothing to do with England - Germany clearly have higher standards so pointless comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 27 June 2014 Share Posted 27 June 2014 How did I miss this ! I dunno, Samilktray, perhaps you accidentally skimmed past another one of my great posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 27 June 2014 Share Posted 27 June 2014 Certainly spot on there. They weren't afraid to pick De Guzman and start him were they? Club he played for didn't matter. Had he been English he would be sat at home as we selected more shite on the bench from the top 4. I think you also have to take in to account that Swansea are the equivalent of some of the top sides in the Dutch League, hence why De Guzman is plying his trade there. We do have a culture of just picking as many English players as possible from the top clubs but there aren't many players from smaller clubs that should have been picked this summer, in my opinion. The only player from an unfashionable club that i'd have had in was Curtis Davies over Chris Smalling, but then again i'd have fcukin had Guy Branston from Racing Club Warwick in over that salad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 27 June 2014 Share Posted 27 June 2014 Not really. They still haven't won anything since 1996. Low is the first Germany manager to have over 100 games in charge and not win anything. Nothing to do with England - Germany clearly have higher standards so pointless comparison. When's the last time England had a manager with 100+ games under his belt? Germany's development is pointing in the right direction, whereas the FA's strategy seems clueless and desperate at times. You don't even give your own managers enough time to come to fruition. Besides, England haven't won anything since 1966. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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