Hodgson Out?

[Guest ttfn]

Imagine if Glen Hoddle had that mind set when he left Gazza at home and dropping the senior striker in Teddy Sheringham for a young Michael Owen who had just had his breakthrough season.

Imagine if Sven has gone with the more capped, senior striker in Emile Heskey instead of Wayne Rooney at Euro 2004.

Rooney brought nothing to the England side, just like the majority of others didn't, Rooney and Gerrard have had amazing England careers, they have lead the country since around 2006, yeah we didn't qualify for Euro 2008 but they were the reasons we got to the World Cup in 2010, the Euros in 2012 and this disaster in Brazil.

Did Rooney deserve to stay on the pitch v Italy? No.

Did Rooney deserve to move our best player v Italy out of his position for the game v Uruguay? Again, no. Yeah he scored, so would anyone from that position into an empty goal.

If you honestly think Rooney should be a starter for England in a system that Roy seems to want to stick too (the 4-2-3-1) then that is your opinion, but if you think about it properly then you should understand there is no place for him or Welbeck in that system.

But you e completely ignored my point that in order for the young players to flourish they need established players around them.

1998 - Scholes, Beckham, Campbell and Owen were integrated into a side with Seaman, Ince, Shearer, Sheringham and Adams. Not to mention that Hoddle actually didn't pick Owen or beckham in the first two games. And by 1998 Gazza was a mess and Sheringham had won no major trophies - comparing him to Rooney - a serial title and cup winner with huge experience in the champions league (not to mention about 50 more caps than Sheringham) is not appropriate.

Likewise euro 2004, Rooney played with a bunch of experienced internationals. The value of Heskey's experience (again, noting that he had significantly less than 2014 Rooney) was not worth keeping him in the side because Rooney was so,so,so much better than him and also we had probably 15 other players with 25+ caps for England in that squad, and certainly 8 or 9 in the starting XI. The talent differential between 2014 Rooney and 2014 Lallana or Barkley (for example) is so much less than 2004 Rooney and 2004 Heskey (as much as I loved him).

I do share your concerns about Rooney's role in a 4-2-3-1 for England. At the moment Sturridge is better than him up front and then I don't think there is much between the guys who play off the front (except Welbeck, who brings a lot to the team but is certainly not ever going to threaten to be a great player). Rooney's performance against Uruguay was actually not bad - perhaps Hodgson's team selection in the first 2 games was "horses for courses" and he thought Sterling's youthful exuberance might upset Pirlo?

[MooseBreath]

Experience is massively overrated in football. What didthe eexperienced Gerrard and lampard bring to the table this year? A talk on what failure feels like, followed by huge contributions towards another failure. I sense we could have done just as well without the both of them, if not better, and the same will be true going forward.

An experienced player who is also still a very good player and who is very influential in a positive way, great. But experience for the sake of experience, worthless.

[Col city fan]

The more this World Cup goes on the more pissed off I am at how shit we really are. Utter embarrassment of a national side.

The difference for me was I felt that after the Uruguay game. I've heard quite a few commentators on the radio this morning use terms like 'in disarray'. I tend to agree, although we've been very poor as a national side for many years.

[Manwell Pablo]

I thought Rooney did alright this tournament to be fair, hardly fantastic but was close to being the best of a pretty terrible bunch.

[Grandad.]

We played 4 players from Euro 2012, so I don't get this experience thing, if you're happy to have another 7 new faces at a tournament then I don't see why you can't have one more.

Wayne Rooney played 90 minutes in both of them two losses, hideous.

[MooseBreath]

I thought Rooney did alright this tournament to be fair, hardly fantastic but was close to being the best of a pretty terrible bunch.

I agree. Rooney was our best attacking player. People seem to be of the opinion that if he's not world class then he must be awful. The truth is that he's just a decent player at international level. No better no worse. His decent performances were all it took for him to be streets ahead of Welbeck and Sterling, who were total dogshit, the latter only forgiven because of his age. Sturridge too, was very poor, and the substitute attacking players contributed absolutely nothing. Scapegoating Rooney might be fashionable but it's very dumb.

[Guest ttfn]

We played 4 players from Euro 2012, so I don't get this experience thing, if you're happy to have another 7 new faces at a tournament then I don't see why you can't have one more.

Wayne Rooney played 90 minutes in both of them two losses, hideous.

That's exactly why Rooney's experience is important.

If you lose 1 out of 10 experienced players (e.g. Heskey in 2004 as you suggested) there's no major impact. You lose 1 out of 4 and it's clearly a more significant issue.

[Grandad.]

Weird that we played with 1 experienced player, actually 2 if you include Milner in our last group game v Costa Rica and got our best result of the tournament.

I know what you're saying mate, but my gripe is that we played a system that restricted our players from their natural games and we also played 2 players out of position, 1 because of his name and the other for work rate. We had players who could have played ahead of them in their natural positions but didn't.

[AKCJ]

I completely agree that a Klinsmann is exactly what we need.

But I don't want a German in charge of English football. It's just wrong. Call me old fashioned, but I want an Englishman managing the country.

Would rather they just gave it to someone like Neville and tell him that it's his job for the next 10-15 years. We need to stop this new manager every 4 years routine. We're not good enough to do it and still get results. Bring him in and let the transformation happen, he's clearly massively respected in the game and is also clearly a very intelligent man who shows his tactical prowess weekly.

Tell him to get a style that would both suit English players and is closer to the Premier League than the slow, miserable stuff we play at the moment.

Yes we all want success now, but it's not going to happen. Give the right man the job long term and his task will be to dig the football's country out of this massive hole we're in.

[Grandad.]

I completely agree that a Klinsmann is exactly what we need.

But I don't want a German in charge of English football. It's just wrong. Call me old fashioned, but I want an Englishman managing the country.

Would rather they just gave it to someone like Neville and tell him that it's his job for the next 10-15 years. We need to stop this new manager every 4 years routine. We're not good enough to do it and still get results. Bring him in and let the transformation happen, he's clearly massively respected in the game and is also clearly a very intelligent man who shows his tactical prowess weekly.

Tell him to get a style that would both suit English players and is closer to the Premier League than the slow, miserable stuff we play at the moment.

Yes we all want success now, but it's not going to happen. Give the right man the job long term and his task will be to dig the football's country out of this massive hole we're in.

Your best ever post.

[Guest ttfn]

Neville shows his tactical prowess after he's had 48 hours to pick apart the weekend's action.

If he's going to be a top manager he needs to show that a) he can see tactically what's unfolding in front of him and b) that he has the balls to actually put his suggestions into action.

There's a whole host of great, insightful pundits who've been mediocre managers and in fact, O'Neill aside, it's hard to think of anybody in the last 20 years who has done both well.

[Grandad.]

The worrying thing though is, there is no English manager currently out there with any of them things. Not one.

All English managers seem to be man-managers, they're not coaches.

Maybe Pearson in the Premier League now is the only one you would class as a coach, the one who coaches his players instead of just geeing them up before a game and telling them to do it for the fans, bullshit. Pardew, Redknapp, Bruce, Dyche and Allardyce aren't coaches, they're man managers, I use that term quite loosely as well with Pardew and Redknapp.

Look at the last time we had a 'coach' manage us, Steve McClaren. He was terrible, maybe he just couldn't work with the players we had the time. Before him the last English coach was Glen Hoddle, he was a success!

I'm not to arsed whether a German manages England, I'm really not. Especially with Klinsmann, the man just wants to win at all costs, he wants to be the best and that is what I want for my national side.

[C-man]

I completely agree that a Klinsmann is exactly what we need.

But I don't want a German in charge of English football. It's just wrong. Call me old fashioned, but I want an Englishman managing the country.

Would rather they just gave it to someone like Neville and tell him that it's his job for the next 10-15 years. We need to stop this new manager every 4 years routine. We're not good enough to do it and still get results. Bring him in and let the transformation happen, he's clearly massively respected in the game and is also clearly a very intelligent man who shows his tactical prowess weekly.

Tell him to get a style that would both suit English players and is closer to the Premier League than the slow, miserable stuff we play at the moment.

Yes we all want success now, but it's not going to happen. Give the right man the job long term and his task will be to dig the football's country out of this massive hole we're in.

Good post but I disagree with the consistency argument. I think the Manager/Head Coach must solely focus on being exactly that - looking after and motivating the team he selects, getting his tactics right and picking the right players.

The transformation you speak about does need to happen but I feel this should be done independently of the Manager by a Director of Football type. Someone who can 100% focus on ensuring our coaching set up is right all the way down to grassroots without the immediate pressure of having to get results on a tournament-by-tournament basis. Neville, Hoddle or perhaps even a foreigner (if we are unable to see past the Head Coach's nationality) could fit this role nicely.

[Guest MattP]

Neville shows his tactical prowess after he's had 48 hours to pick apart the weekend's action.

If he's going to be a top manager he needs to show that a) he can see tactically what's unfolding in front of him and b) that he has the balls to actually put his suggestions into action.

There's a whole host of great, insightful pundits who've been mediocre managers and in fact, O'Neill aside, it's hard to think of anybody in the last 20 years who has done both well.

This is a great point.

Anyone who uses Sky Sports as a reason to show a managers tactical nouse is barking up the wrong tree, we could all do this on a Monday night for the games over the weekend.

Souness and Gullit both talk a great game on TV but were absolutely appalling managers.

[Col city fan]

As far as I can tell, Hodgson still hasn't given much of an explanation why he feels we didn't perform, what was behind his tactical decisions and where we go from here.

Without such, the cry for a replacement may well amplify.

Come on Roy, give your view.

The general consensus appears to be that we don't have good enough players.. full stop. I still don't agree with that. Italy and Uruguay were simply average sides and have the USA/Algeria got better footballers than the English?

My feeling is that yes, we aint very good, but that Roy has made big blunders.

Like others have said, something of an explanation would be a start.

[Guest MattP]

As far as I can tell, Hodgson still hasn't given much of an explanation why he feels we didn't perform, what was behind his tactical decisions and where we go from here.

Without such, the cry for a replacement may well amplify.

Come on Roy, give your view.

The general consensus appears to be that we don't have good enough players.. full stop. I still don't agree with that. Italy and Uruguay were simply average sides and have the USA/Algeria got better footballers than the English?

My feeling is that yes, we aint very good, but that Roy has made big blunders.

Like others have said, something of an explanation would be a start.

When has any manager ever?

[Col city fan]

When has any manager ever?

Do you not feel the nation deserves some explanation then Matt? Genuine question. I thought you were as peeved as everyone else with our dismal showing?

Wouldn't it be refreshing to actually have some answers. From Roy himself, from the FA? As far as I can see, Hodgson drifts along in his hugely paid job without even feeling he should explain, or even resign.

I thought you would want some answers given as much as I would?

[AKCJ]

Neville shows his tactical prowess after he's had 48 hours to pick apart the weekend's action.

If he's going to be a top manager he needs to show that a) he can see tactically what's unfolding in front of him and b) that he has the balls to actually put his suggestions into action.

There's a whole host of great, insightful pundits who've been mediocre managers and in fact, O'Neill aside, it's hard to think of anybody in the last 20 years who has done both well.

You're absolutely right, but there are other reasons as to why he should get the job. His punditry is just another bullet point on his CV.

He's spent his entire career under the best manager in the modern game, he's spent time in the England set up for a while now, he's (as said above) well respected and someone I think the players could buy into.

I think that if the idea is to give someone a decade to get it right then he's your man, if not then give him an assistant role and let him learn of someone like Hoddle as he steadies the ship.

[Corky]

Do you not feel the nation deserves some explanation then Matt? Genuine question. I thought you were as peeved as everyone else with our dismal showing?

Wouldn't it be refreshing to actually have some answers. From Roy himself, from the FA? As far as I can see, Hodgson drifts along in his hugely paid job without even feeling he should explain, or even resign.

I thought you would want some answers given as much as I would?

Hodgson seemed to be happy with the showing and not the results, so you won't get the answers you want.

[Guest MattP]

Do you not feel the nation deserves some explanation then Matt? Genuine question. I thought you were as peeved as everyone else with our dismal showing?

Wouldn't it be refreshing to actually have some answers. From Roy himself, from the FA? As far as I can see, Hodgson drifts along in his hugely paid job without even feeling he should explain, or even resign.

I thought you would want some answers given as much as I would?

Not me personally no as I predicted we wouldn't get out of the group, a few of us on here (me, danlcfc, manwell pablo) know our lot are hideously overated and it was going to be a major task to finish above Italy and Uruguay who despite being far from the best teams they have produced are still far better than us.

I suppose I'd like an explanation as to how Danny Welbeck and Glen Johnson continue to start for England but apart from that I can't really think of anything I'd ask that hasn't been covered by the pundits and media over the last few weeks.

What would the explanation be? Stop expecting us to achieve things we aren't capable of? What were your expectations before the tournament?

(Hodgsons wage is irrelevant, the reason he and Capello are the two highest paid national managers is nothing to do with ability but the fact we both have FA's loaded with cash obsessed with throwing money at people, would people be less pissed off if he didn't earn so much? Slag off the FA and the culture of money our football has for his wage packet, not himself)

[Col city fan]

Not me personally no as I predicted we wouldn't get out of the group, a few of us on here (me, danlcfc, manwell pablo) know our lot are hideously overated and it was going to be a major task to finish above Italy and Uruguay who despite being far from the best teams they have produced are still far better than us.

I suppose I'd like an explanation as to how Danny Welbeck and Glen Johnson continue to start for England but apart from that I can't really think of anything I'd ask that hasn't been covered by the pundits and media over the last few weeks.

What would the explanation be? Stop expecting us to achieve things we aren't capable of? What were your expectations before the tournament?

I didn't expect us to get out of the group stage if truth be told and had a bet on it, which obviously came off. But I also didn't think we'd get one point out of a possible nine and look so lacklustre in many departments.

That still doesn't override at least an attempt at an explanation. But, as I said previously, it would appear that the expectations of our national team are currently so low that many people feel an apology, an explanation, a resignation are even warranted?

I wonder how many people on here, for example, felt that we would simply crash-out in the first round? Sad times.

Personally, I think wages should be an issue and should reflect performance. To continue to be paying Hodgson such an extortionate sum following such a poor outcome absolutely should be reviewed.

[Guest MattP]

I didn't expect us to get out of the group stage if truth be told and had a bet on it, which obviously came off. But I also didn't think we'd get one point out of a possible nine and look so lacklustre in many departments.

That still doesn't override at least an attempt at an explanation. But, as I said previously, it would appear that the expectations of our national team are currently so low that many people feel an apology, an explanation, a resignation are even warranted?

I wonder how many people on here, for example, felt that we would simply crash-out in the first round? Sad times.

Personally, I think wages should be an issue and should reflect performance. To continue to be paying Hodgson such an extortionate sum following such a poor outcome absolutely should be reviewed.

The FA have set their stall out with that now, they broke the bank to bring in Sven and now everyone knows what they pay. I'd love to see us take the attitude of a minor nation and make it a low paid job, then someone who would be doing it for love and not for money could have it.

I expected us that lacklustre to be honest, not a great starting XI and playing against teams that keep the ball well, didn't expect Costa Rica to be that good mind. I don't think peoples expectations are that high, I don't think I've heard any England fans call for his head or any sort of mass cull.

It is sad times but people need to get a grip where we are, by the time we step onto the pitch at Euro 2016 it will be fifty years since we reached a major final and 26 years since we got to a semi final that wasn't on home turf.

We are nowhere near the bracket of top European side anymore and there is no quick fix. Unfortunately I think our football/money/celeb/PL culture has become so devoid of any reality I don't think we'll ever be able to rectify it.

[StevieLCFCmad]

Keep him, the squad seem happy and they'll learn from this. Be a great team for Euro 2016!

[Grandad.]

Keep him, the squad seem happy and they'll learn from this. Be a great team for Euro 2016!

Wow. Delusion.

[Col city fan]

Whether Hodgson in or out, on a personal level I can say I've never been so disillusioned with the England team. However awful we were at S.Africa, at least we made it out of the group, thus having a final 16 game to look forward to.

To crash out in a tournament as excellent as this one is a real bloody shame, and though I 'expected' it, I obviously 'hoped' we would do well.

What with the football team and the Cricket team, English team sport aint brilliant at the moment. Are the England Ladies any good?