Hodgson Out?

[Manwell Pablo]

On the basis of eveyone knowing we just weren't good enough, then I would say his tactics were wrong. We still seemed to have the mentality of we're England we'll go out there and outplay teams, the facts are even some of the smaller nations have ball control technique far ahead of our own. With that in mind we need to go into it with the tactics employed by some of the weaker teams who know their limitations. Build from the back and keep it solid, then break on the counter attack at pace.

Yes

And how many English fans did you hear say "I don't care if we go out in the group stages, as long as we have a go" All he's done is listen to them, major failing of many a England manager that, listening to media/fans.

I bet Col was probably one of them.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Sorry Soccerroo but if you really believe this, there is no point discussing the subject any further. Are you watching the Brazil v Germany game later? The expectation of the Brazilian fans could well be their 'twelth man'... they will not stop urging them on, they want them to win, they expect them to win. Luiz's free-kick winner in the last game displayed the 'passion' (under-stated word that) that he has for his country and those following them.

I'm not saying that Brazil aren't a better team than England, in terms of ability (of course they are..apart from Fred and Jo..) but that level of belief, passion and yes, expectation, is something else that seems to be missing from the English game. We somehow need to get it back. We've crashed-out of the World Cup with a little whimper, yet few seem really bothered. The atitude appears to be 'oh well, we aint very good anyway'. Same with the cricket.. and the list goes on.

Yep all well and good, now if you could answer my question.

[Manwell Pablo]

Yep all well and good, now if you could answer my question.

What he's saying isn't even close to true there is ridiculous expectation from media and fans despite the fact we're a pile of steaming rhino shit. Granted the players look like they'd rather be in Ibiza and show nothing close to the effort you get when they're playing for their club but that's nothing to do with the English support.

[Guest Col city fan]

Yes

And how many English fans did you hear say "I don't care if we go out in the group stages, as long as we have a go" All he's done is listen to them, major failing of many a England manager that, listening to media/fans.

I bet Col was probably one of them.

Are you REALLY saying that I didn't care if we went out in the group stages, as long as we 'had a go'.

lol

You don't read threads do you. I'm very pissed off at Roy and the squad.

I laid a bet on England not progressing.. I didn't think we'd get out of the group. My opinion changed when I saw how bang average Italy and Uruguay were. And I'd have been happy not to have won the money if we then went on and progressed.

Try a bit harder Pablo, you sound like you're making excuses for our abject failing at the tournament.

[MC Prussian]

That post is so full of assumptions and off-the-cuff remarks I'm not gonna bother. Eg. Who said anything about it being the easiest group ever?

Stick with stuff about praying to Arry. One of the most bizarre posts I think I've ever read.

You know what I mean:

I simply don't get this 'tough group' argument either.

And:

we went out of a group that demonstrated itself to be far less dangerous than we previously thought,

Your initial post is just another classic example of a 180 on your behalf.

You claim that people are just making excuses that the English squad just isn't good enough both collectively and individually, when in fact, they actually are no longer the crème de la crème.

I know somewhere in your brain, the memories of times past with "Grand England" must still be lingering, yet it would be about time you came to terms with reality.

[Babylon]

Yes

And how many English fans did you hear say "I don't care if we go out in the group stages, as long as we have a go" All he's done is listen to them, major failing of many a England manager that, listening to media/fans.

I bet Col was probably one of them.

You're absolutely right they did, as teblin said I think we got caught in the middle ground and didn't do one thing or the other.

To be quite honest I'm not really bothered what happens to him or the team at the moment. The days of me giving a shit about the them went many years ago.

[Guest Col city fan]

Yep all well and good, now if you could answer my question.

I have

[MC Prussian]

I have

Oh no, you didn't.

Sorry Soccerroo but if you really believe this, there is no point discussing the subject any further.

[Manwell Pablo]

Are you REALLY saying that I didn't care if we went out in the group stages, as long as we 'had a go'.

lol

You don't read threads do you. I'm very pissed off at Roy and the squad.

I laid a bet on England not progressing.. I didn't think we'd get out of the group. My opinion changed when I saw how bang average Italy and Uruguay were. And I'd have been happy not to have won the money if we then went on and progressed.

Try a bit harder Pablo, you sound like you're making excuses for our abject failing at the tournament.

Not every single one Colin no that would be impossible. If you want to ignore the post I've just made above the one you've rerplied to, jump all over a flippant remark rather than discuss the issue (not for the first time) I'm not to interested to be honest

And you accuse me of not being able to read, I think I've stated about 67 times now, the players aren't good enough, that's admission of lack of quality not an excuse. Your the one making excuses, manager, Premeir Leauge, etc.

[Guest Col city fan]

You know what I mean:

And:

Your initial post is just another classic example of a 180 on your behalf.

You claim that people are just making excuses that the English squad just isn't good enough both collectively and individually, when in fact, they actually are no longer the crème de la crème.

I know somewhere in your brain, the memories of times past with "Grand England" must still be lingering, yet it would be about time you came to terms with reality.

Only in your world can a group that was clearly less difficult than I previously expected, equate to it becoming 'the easiest group ever'!

180 degrees.. You've done a full 360 there..

Surprise surprise..

[Guest MattP]

Sorry Soccerroo but if you really believe this, there is no point discussing the subject any further. Are you watching the Brazil v Germany game later? The expectation of the Brazilian fans could well be their 'twelth man'... they will not stop urging them on, they want them to win, they expect them to win. Luiz's free-kick winner in the last game displayed the 'passion' (under-stated word that) that he has for his country and those following them.

I'm not saying that Brazil aren't a better team than England, in terms of ability (of course they are..apart from Fred and Jo..) but that level of belief, passion and yes, expectation, is something else that seems to be missing from the English game. We somehow need to get it back. We've crashed-out of the World Cup with a little whimper, yet few seem really bothered. The atitude appears to be 'oh well, we aint very good anyway'. Same with the cricket.. and the list goes on.

You can't compare England to Brazil. Brazil have won 5 World Cups, have World Class footballers in the team, are a footballing heavyweight to coin a term.

Also being hosts creates that expectation whoever you are. We would be under the same pressure if we were playing at home, lets be honest it hasnt helped them either, yes they are through but had we had a competant referee in the opening game they would have been leaving us in the group stage having watched Mexico and Croatia. A width of a crossbar from going out in the last 16 as well.

As for the Cricket, we have just had the most successful period of the national team in my lifetime! We won a major tournament, lost in the final of another, won 3 ashes series on the trot, won in India and went to number 1 in the World all within a 5 year period!

ROFL if you think a lack of expectation is a problem in England, ridiculous.

Well we showed a complete lack of respect for Pirlo but Hodgson wasn't the only one, all I heard pre tournament was how he was nothing to worry about and apparently wouldn't get in our side so it's no wonder he didn't bother trying to neutralize him, not that we have a defensive minded midfield player who is capable of doing that anyway.

Took the words out of my mouth, before the competition everyone was on about Pirlo being finished, Uruguay only having one player who would get in our team, all the typical bullshit you get from our fans before every tournament showing zero respect for the opposition whilst lauding up our average bunch that look better because of the talent they play with every week.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

I have

No you haven't you said people like Man Pab having a low expectation of the team effects the teams performance. People with low expectation are completely different than people who spend 1000's to travel across the World to cheer on there team to be the 'twelfth man' even if they were one and the same it wouldn't stop them cheering on the team.

Oh and for the record you only need to read some of the shit on here that the expectation pre WC was pretty high well at least most people expecting to get out of the group.

So please answer my question

[Guest Col city fan]

Not every single one Colin no that would be impossible.

And you accuse me of not being able to read, I think I've stated about 67 times now, the players aren't good enough, that's admission of lack of quality not an excuse. Your the one making excuses, manager, Premeir Leauge, etc.

I agree the England squad we took to Brazil wasn't very good. I don't agree that it was any worse than the Italians, the Costa Ricans, the USA, the Mexicans and some others.

I think why we didn't progress further was we weren't well organised, Hodgson played the wrong players in the wrong games (Gerrard for instance was knackered in the Uruguay game) and our lads didn't look up for it in the same way as many other nations have done.

This is a thread about Roy Hodgson.. And he made some blunders. I firmly believe that a number of other managers could have taken that very same squad of players and put on a better showing than we did.

[MC Prussian]

Only in your world can a group that was clearly less difficult than I previously expected, equate to it becoming 'the easiest group ever'!

180 degrees.. You've done a full 360 there..

Surprise surprise..

Error of logic here, I'm afraid: Your world isn't mine world.

Stop assimilating me, Colin. And start admitting that you're always wiser afterwards.

[Manwell Pablo]

I agree the England squad we took to Brazil wasn't very good. I don't agree that it was any worse than the Italians, the Costa Ricans, the USA, the Mexicans and some others.

I think why we didn't progress further was we weren't well organised, Hodgson played the wrong players in the wrong games (Gerrard for instance was knackered in the Uruguay game) and our lads didn't look up for it in the same way as many other nations have done.

This is a thread about Roy Hodgson.. And he made some blunders. I firmly believe that a number of other managers could have taken that very same squad of players and put on a better showing than we did.

Italy have a better side. They have a better defense and midfield and anyone who knows anything about World Football will tell you that, our supposed strength above them was our strikers and they, all in all, had a dire tournament in front of goal, Hodgson can't be held accountable for their inability to finish.

You might think we have better players, I wouldn't be overly sure to be in all areas to be honest, especially Mexico, but in all three cases those teams are a team, and it's not just down to the manager in Englands case, it's all of the other external factors I have pointed out in previous posts. I haven't seen an England that's played as a team since 2004, ten years and four different (very successful) managers ago. The players just can't play together due to collective technical and tactical frailties in their games and the fact that they really don't care.

I know what it's about, I started it, I agree he made some mistakes I disagree if you think anyone else would of done remarkably better.

[Guest Col city fan]

Italy have a better side. They have a better defense and midfield and anyone who knows anything about World Football will tell you that, our supposed strength above them was our strikers and they, all in all, had a dire tournament in front of goal, Hodgson can't be held accountable for their inability to finish.

You might think we have better players, I wouldn't be overly sure to be in all areas to be honest, especially Mexico, but in all three cases those teams are a team, and it's not just down to the manager in Englands case, it's all of the other external factors I have pointed out in previous posts. I haven't seen an England that's played as a team since 2004, ten years and four different (very successful) managers ago. The players just can't play together due to collective technical and tactical frailties in their games and the fact that they really don't care.

I know what it's about, I started it, I agree he made some mistakes I disagree if you think anyone else would of done remarkably better.

Don't you think this 'technical' thing gets a bit boring? What does that really mean? Was our team at the Euro 96 any more 'technically gifted' than now. Surely, over a decade of supposedly trying to put the problem right should have moved us forwards, not backwards. And look at the Costa Ricans. Would you replace Jack Wilshere with Bryan Ruiz? Or Gerrard for Celso Borges. Really? This isn't to dismiss such players (I've said many times I'm impressed by their discipline and work rate) it's to make the simple point that do you really think that such players are better than we have?

Rafa Marquez at Mexico is nearing 40 isn't he. Yepes for Columbia, isn't he 38? Would you choose either of these guys, however good they have been, to get into a World Side over Cahill? Maybe you would, I don't' know.

Why we did so well in 1996, IMO is because yes, we had better players (Shearer, Gascoine) but primarily because the nation generally expected and because these guys played with a passion. Much like the Costa Ricans, the Americans and the Mexicans have done at this tournament. You're last sentence is spot on therefore. With some exceptions (I'm pretty convinced that Gerrard is upset that he had such a torrid time), the squad 'really don't care'. My point is, neither much do the nation, or so it seems. It's happened, there's been very little questioning, very little analysis, nothing from Roy.. And now all we hear is that 'it was bound to happen, we aren't very good anyway'.

It's a long time ago since I watched a young Paul Gascoine burst into tears when he knew he was out of the tournament. Sentimental maybe, but poignant nonetheless.

[Guest MattP]

Don't you think this 'technical' thing gets a bit boring? What does that really mean? Was our team at the Euro 96 any more 'technically gifted' than now. Surely, over a decade of supposedly trying to put the problem right should have moved us forwards, not backwards. And look at the Costa Ricans. Would you replace Jack Wilshere with Bryan Ruiz? Or Gerrard for Celso Borges. Really? This isn't to dismiss such players (I've said many times I'm impressed by their discipline and work rate) it's to make the simple point that do you really think that such players are better than we have?

Rafa Marquez at Mexico is nearing 40 isn't he. Yepes for Columbia, isn't he 38? Would you choose either of these guys, however good they have been, to get into a World Side over Cahill? Maybe you would, I don't' know.

Why we did so well in 1996, IMO is because yes, we had better players (Shearer, Gascoine) but primarily because the nation generally expected and because these guys played with a passion. Much like the Costa Ricans, the Americans and the Mexicans have done at this tournament. You're last sentence is spot on therefore. With some exceptions (I'm pretty convinced that Gerrard is upset that he had such a torrid time), the squad 'really don't care'. My point is, neither much do the nation, or so it seems. It's happened, there's been very little questioning, very little analysis, nothing from Roy.. And now all we hear is that 'it was bound to happen, we aren't very good anyway'.

It's a long time ago since I watched a young Paul Gascoine burst into tears when he knew he was out of the tournament. Sentimental maybe, but poignant nonetheless.

Yepes or Marquez over Cahill every time for me, might old but the quality is still there and the organisation they offer to a defence is vital. I'm biased though as I've love Yepes ever since I started taking at interest in the Copa Libertadores, he captained a couple of tremendous River sides.

Let's be honest though we did well in Euro 96 because of home advantage and what goes with it (same as Brazil this year, Korea in 2002) we lost the Quarter Final 2-0 to Spain but two incredible decisions went our way from a linesman who ruled both of those goals out. The Dutch performance often does mask that we were actually a bit average, a poor draw with Switzerland and a moment of Gazza magic to beat Scotland masked it. Then we somehow lost to a Germany team who had no strikers left.

(I'd say 98 was the year we last played some really good football under Hoddle)

It's a good point about the nation not caring though, for the first time in a while I wasn't really bothered when we went out, I think a lot of people have just finally got sick of them. Overpaid, overhyped and over-rated.

[Manwell Pablo]

Don't you think this 'technical' thing gets a bit boring? What does that really mean? Was our team at the Euro 96 any more 'technically gifted' than now. Surely, over a decade of supposedly trying to put the problem right should have moved us forwards, not backwards. And look at the Costa Ricans. Would you replace Jack Wilshere with Bryan Ruiz? Or Gerrard for Celso Borges. Really? This isn't to dismiss such players (I've said many times I'm impressed by their discipline and work rate) it's to make the simple point that do you really think that such players are better than we have?

Rafa Marquez at Mexico is nearing 40 isn't he. Yepes for Columbia, isn't he 38? Would you choose either of these guys, however good they have been, to get into a World Side over Cahill? Maybe you would, I don't' know.

Why we did so well in 1996, IMO is because yes, we had better players (Shearer, Gascoine) but primarily because the nation generally expected and because these guys played with a passion. Much like the Costa Ricans, the Americans and the Mexicans have done at this tournament. You're last sentence is spot on therefore. With some exceptions (I'm pretty convinced that Gerrard is upset that he had such a torrid time), the squad 'really don't care'. My point is, neither much do the nation, or so it seems. It's happened, there's been very little questioning, very little analysis, nothing from Roy.. And now all we hear is that 'it was bound to happen, we aren't very good anyway'.

It's a long time ago since I watched a young Paul Gascoine burst into tears when he knew he was out of the tournament. Sentimental maybe, but poignant nonetheless.

I give up.

Someone else can argue with him for a bit.

[Manwell Pablo]

Yepes or Marquez over Cahill every time for me, might old but the quality is still there and the organisation they offer to a defence is vital. I'm biased though as I've love Yepes ever since I started taking at interest in the Copa Libertadores, he captained a couple of tremendous River sides.

Let's be honest though we did well in Euro 96 because of home advantage and what goes with it (same as Brazil this year, Korea in 2002) we lost the Quarter Final 2-0 to Spain but two incredible decisions went our way from a linesman who ruled both of those goals out. The Dutch performance often does mask that we were actually a bit average, a poor draw with Switzerland and a moment of Gazza magic to beat Scotland masked it. Then we somehow lost to a Germany team who had no strikers left.

(I'd say 98 was the year we last played some really good football under Hoddle)

It's a good point about the nation not caring though, for the first time in a while I wasn't really bothered when we went out, I think a lot of people have just finally got sick of them. Overpaid, overhyped and over-rated.

2002 was ok in parts, Argentina was gutsy and Denmark was an annihilation. Did well against Brazil as well.

[The Horse's Mouth]

Yepes or Marquez over Jaggers tbf

[Manwell Pablo]

Yepes or Marquez over Jaggers tbf

I started typing that and thought whats the point

[Guest MattP]

2002 was ok in parts, Argentina was gutsy and Denmark was an annihilation. Did well against Brazil as well.

Yeah that's a fair shout.

[Guest Col city fan]

I started typing that and thought whats the point

I started typing that and thought whats the point

So you really believe that Mourinho would consider selling Cahill to bring in Yepes or Marquez? (If that was possible)

Or that Liverpool would pick Joel Campbell over Sturridge?

Or that Wenger would offload Wilshere to bring in Ruiz?

What about Everton replacing Barkley with Celso Borges?

The list can kinda go on..

I'm flogging a dead horse here...

YES, we aren't that good.. but no worse than many other nations who have done much better. Why? Discipline, tactical organisation, team-work and the will to win. Players (and possibly a nation?) that appear to give a shite..

I give in....

[Manwell Pablo]

So you really believe that Mourinho would consider selling Cahill to bring in Yepes or Marquez? (If that was possible)

Or that Liverpool would pick Joel Campbell over Sturridge?

Or that Wenger would offload Wilshere to bring in Ruiz?

What about Everton replacing Barkley with Celso Borges?

The list can kinda go on..

I'm flogging a dead horse here...

YES, we aren't that good.. but no worse than many other nations who have done much better. Why? Discipline, tactical organisation, team-work and the will to win. Players (and possibly a nation?) that appear to give a shite..

I give in....

NO COLIN IT SAYS JAGIELKA FCKING READ!!!

This is why I give up. Pointless

In answer to your question I quite like the look of Joel Campbell, so quite possibly, he's certainly been better than Struddige this tournament. Brain Ruiz over a half fit Wilshere every time on the international stage, Celso Borges would be a more competent international player than the inexperienced Barkley, this has been proven. We are playing International football here, not club football.

The Nation does give a shit, Just because I don't doesn't mean everyone thinks like me, If you think the nation doesn't give a shit you've been living in a fcking box for the past month. Discipline and team-work are also a problem but as I've already told you, that's a problem spanning 10 years and 4 very good managers.

You are not flogging a dead horse you repeating yourself despite being argued down.

[Master Fox]

Pulis should be given the job. At least we'd be hard to beat. I think in hindsight he would have probably got England through the group stages at the very least.