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Haydos

UK 'intelligence' agency GCHQ revealed by Snowden to have programs to manipulate online public information.

By Haydos, in General Chat

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Haydos

Haydos

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Let's be honest it's happens everywhere, we are manipulated into thinking how government wants us too and started off on their social engineering course from the first day of school in this day and age.

This looks pretty mild to everything else.

One thing that really weirds me out from primary school is religion. It was taught like it was fact and without question yet it really seems like a crazy bit of the syllabus now.

I'm not doubting that it's been the case for a while, just that more and more things are coming out where all that seems to be important is that the government hold data on everyone and can access anything they say of do (online, phone, writing, wherever) and that they have complete influence on what we have access to as a population.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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Let's be honest it's happens everywhere, we are manipulated into thinking how government wants us too and started off on their social engineering course from the first day of school in this day and age.

This looks pretty mild to everything else.

Then we need to make sure that the Internet remains free (at least for the most part) from its influence. And critical thinking should be a key part of education.

Oh, and the manipulation regarding social roles and nationalism over here in school is fvcking awful - 'Citizenship' classes, they call it, mandatory part of the curriculum - makes whatever goes on in the UK seem like small fry. Makes me tear my hair out every time I see it. Still, once again the Internet here is beginning to make people think for themselves.

One thing that really weirds me out from primary school is religion. It was taught like it was fact and without question yet it really seems like a crazy bit of the syllabus now.

I'm not doubting that it's been the case for a while, just that more and more things are coming out where all that seems to be important is that the government hold data on everyone and can access anything they say of do (online, phone, writing, wherever) and that they have complete influence on what we have access to as a population.

I'm glad that Religious Education has taken on a reduced role in recent years and no one religion is being taught as (virtual) fact any more.

I also still think the greater part of the Internet is free of influence, but work has to be done to keep it that way.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

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Let me get this right Jon. You're advocating the manipulation of popular opinion to trick/manipulate/lure people into adopting a particular stance on world and other events?

I'm sorry man, but that's utterly abhorrent. The fact that the Chinese and Russians do it should make no nevermind to the fact that that is a massive violation of the freedom of will - the most fundamental freedom of them all.

Is nothing - not even our minds - free any more?

I think you are naive to think this has not gone one in every group of humans since we could talk. What I am advocating is the UK government and its institutions being aware and having capability in this space to at least ensure they can detect and monitor attempts to manipulate us through social media. I think it is highly likely that other foreign powers are doing so, and it would be remiss of our government to ignore this. I also think it would be appropriate in certain circumstances to use this capability against other countries, and perhaps even domestically if the circumstances dictated.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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I think you are naive to think this has not gone one in every group of humans since we could talk. What I am advocating is the UK government and its institutions being aware and having capability in this space to at least ensure they can detect and monitor attempts to manipulate us through social media. I think it is highly likely that other foreign powers are doing so, and it would be remiss of our government to ignore this. I also think it would be appropriate in certain circumstances to use this capability against other countries, and perhaps even domestically if the circumstances dictated.

Having the knowledge and capability to detect and defend when social media is being manipulated I do agree with.

Using that knowledge to manipulate the social media of other nations (or worse, this one) I most certainly do not.

Manipulation of humans through information is something that has gone on for millenia, but that doesn't change the fact that it's utterly grotesque and it gives an amount of power that no human being should ever have.

I've always thought fvcking with other peoples minds nonconsensually for your own personal ends (whether as an individual or a group) is malice of the worst kind - no matter what form it takes, or what cause it is for. If you really think your cause is just, give people enough information to be able to choose for themselves freely.

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Steven

Steven

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Having the knowledge and capability to detect and defend when social media is being manipulated I do agree with.

Using that knowledge to manipulate the social media of other nations (or worse, this one) I most certainly do not.

Manipulation of humans through information is something that has gone on for millenia, but that doesn't change the fact that it's utterly grotesque and it gives an amount of power that no human being should ever have.

I've always thought fvcking with other peoples minds for your own personal ends (whether as an individual or a group) is malice of the worst kind - no matter what form it takes, or what cause it is for. If you really think your cause is just, give people enough information to be able to choose for themselves freely.

Quite. This. +1 again

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

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Having the knowledge and capability to detect and defend when social media is being manipulated I do agree with.

Using that knowledge to manipulate the social media of other nations (or worse, this one) I most certainly do not.

Manipulation of humans through information is something that has gone on for millenia, but that doesn't change the fact that it's utterly grotesque and it gives an amount of power that no human being should ever have.

I've always thought fvcking with other peoples minds nonconsensually for your own personal ends (whether as an individual or a group) is malice of the worst kind - no matter what form it takes, or what cause it is for. If you really think your cause is just, give people enough information to be able to choose for themselves freely.

We are talking about misinformation no? This is not malice of the worst kind.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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We are talking about misinformation no? This is not malice of the worst kind.

It sounds pretty messed up to me. Manipulating social media so that the only information they read is the stuff you want them to read? The power to do that isn't malicious in of itself, but I can think of all manner of wholly malicious acts that could be done by someone with that power. And from what is said in the article the swaying of popular opinion by this manipulation is already underway.

I think misinformation and media manipulation are pretty much the same, and both of them take away fundamental freedom of will and choice. If you don't have the information to be informed about a choice, then you may as well have no choice at all.

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Guest

Guest

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anyone who simply believes anything they read is a simpleton who is ripe for being led. Find the source and decide if you believe the source. Use your own mind to make decisions that concern you. Most people are in "it" for themselves.

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Rincewind

Rincewind

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When the only source is the government I smell a rat.  Will they tell us something that makes them look bad? As you say most people are in it for themselves and that includes politicians. On the same day as the recent reshuffle there was a report out from the DWP on the effect of some of the reforms on claimants. The media naturally deemed it less important bt was it just a coincidence that a report that was not all good for the government came out on the same day as the changes. If it was Labour in power no doubt the same thing would happen so I do not believe everything I read but the best sources I have found are those who have experienced or have experience of the subject.

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Guest

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Pretty sure GCHQ will be following the tinder thread. There must be a reference in there somewhere to someone having bombed.

 

Don't; go there.

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Webbo

Webbo

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When the only source is the government I smell a rat.  Will they tell us something that makes them look bad? As you say most people are in it for themselves and that includes politicians. On the same day as the recent reshuffle there was a report out from the DWP on the effect of some of the reforms on claimants. The media naturally deemed it less important bt was it just a coincidence that a report that was not all good for the government came out on the same day as the changes. If it was Labour in power no doubt the same thing would happen so I do not believe everything I read but the best sources I have found are those who have experienced or have experience of the subject.

And yet you'll regularly quote some anonymous half baked blog, that you often haven't even read, on here as if it was the gospel truth.

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Guest

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And you trust statements from the government in power more than independent findings?

Fair enough. Your choice.

 

Independant of what/whom?

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Webbo

Webbo

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And you trust statements from the government in power more than independent findings?

Fair enough. Your choice.

The govt that we elect and are overseen by a critical press as opposed to an anonymous blogger from who knows where with who knows what agenda. Still as long it matches your prejudice it must be true.

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Rincewind

Rincewind

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Critical press? Anytime a story is out  that opposes the Govt it is regarded as lies. There is more news sources than just the Govt favourites, What about all the ones that come from communities, NHS schools charities. People that are involved in day to day ground work at a working mans level. The sources are endless and most from a grass root level not from an office in Westminster.

 

We know the governments agenda. To stay in power by any means. And if that means telling lies to the public they will if they think they will be believed. If you want to know what ER is like speak to a nurse or a patient.

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Webbo

Webbo

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Critical press? Anytime a story is out  that opposes the Govt it is regarded as lies. There is more news sources than just the Govt favourites, What about all the ones that come from communities, NHS schools charities. People that are involved in day to day ground work at a working mans level. The sources are endless and most from a grass root level not from an office in Westminster.

Ken you're the only person who pretends everything that doesn't suit your agenda is lies. You dismiss anything positive in the newspapers before you've even read it.

 

If all you post is the partial opinions of activists and bloggers you can't be expected to be taken seriously.

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Rincewind

Rincewind

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I have no agenda other than wanting fairness>If people laid down and accepted everything that is thrown at them they would be walked over time and time again. But if you wish to accept there are no problems around then that is fine by me.

I only post a fraction of stories from across the UK from a wide range of sources and subjects including positive stories of people that have gone through hard times and come through the other side. I wish I could post more of them but even the ones showing people that have suffered passing on their knowledge are criticised by some. I do not care what party governs as long as there is fairness.

Figure in a report on behalf of DWP how  31% of those sanctioned are homeless or nearly homeless in comparison to just 5% (DWP stats) others.As you may know the majority of jobs require a permanent  address to be entered on the application forms which is not easy if sofa surfing living with relatives or in an hostel. This a not a well known fact yet the report was carried out for the govt who chose not to make it public. If it was not for individuals searching fewer people would know.

Is anyone going to take any notice of this rant? I doubt it. I am on my own and sometimes wonder why I even bother.

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