Alf Bentley Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Where is the evidence this is based on anything from 1995? I can't find anything to back that up. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29751124 "The European Commission has reviewed the economic performance of all member states since 1995, and revised its economic statistics to take greater account of things like income from the black economy". http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-2805760/EU-seeking-1-7bn-UK.html "It results from an EU recalculation of national incomes dating back to 1995 and taking into account recent changes in the rules to include economic activities such as prostitution and illegal drugs." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/23/uk-european-commission-eu-budget-contribution "Eurostat arrived at the €2.1bn figure on the basis of new methods of calculating member states’ GNI since 1995, taking account of previously unreported or under-reported black economy elements, such as drug dealing and consumption or the sex industry". Of course, the BBC, Mail & Grauniad could all be wrong... No need for the link Alf, got the Eurostat stuff from 1995 now. Too late! Have you hacked my PC?!
Guest MattP Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Have a rep point for the effort. The whole thing looks quite ridiculous to be honest, Greece is being asked to pay more and Germany and France get a rebate. Can any of the fiercly pro-EU lot (Purple Ronnie, the Captain) actually put up an argument that the European Union is actually for a country like Greece given the state it is actually in now despite the fact they are already 'underpaying' into the project?
Bellend Sebastian Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 If I'd known all those massage extras would have caused this much bother I'd have thought twice about paying for them. This is the sort of thing that should be disclosed at point of sale. I'm writing to my MP right now. Hello Liz
Sir Fynwy Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 It's pretty unlikely that government (all hues) wouldn't know the budget rules they have accepted in EU treaties, I know that I would get an income tax demand if I had understated my income and an investigation found this, I'd also expect a cheque in the post from HMRC if I had overpaid. Maybe our leaders need to read the small print? The calculation of national income has been changed by I didn't see our government blocking the change, mainly because it actually made our GDP look better.
DennisNedry Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Why can't we just flatly refuse to pay it?What's the worst they can do... kick us out? Good, we'll see ourselves out, thank you.
bovril Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Why can't we just flatly refuse to pay it? What's the worst they can do... kick us out? Good, we'll see ourselves out, thank you. Send a strongly worded letter threatening to ban real ale in the UKIP common room.
MooseBreath Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Does look like we made our own bed a bit by changing the GNP calculation
yorkie1999 Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Double standards if you ask me, Cameroon refusing to pay a surcharge to the eu because Britain has done better than expected, yet demanding £200 of me just because i earn't a little more than expected last year..
Alf Bentley Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Does look like we made our own bed a bit by changing the GNP calculation The change in the calculation does seem to have been approved in the last couple of years, from what I can tell, so presumably by the Cameron government for the UK. So, Cameron has approved a change in the calculation of our income since 1995 .....which has increased that income (mainly under Blair/Brown)....by including drug-dealing/prostitution....thereby leaving the UK owing more money to the EU....at precisely the moment when he faces a UKIP challenge over the EU....thereby giving a massive boost to those who want the UK to leave the EU (and maybe indirectly to Labour). You really couldn't make it up!
Sir Fynwy Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Cameron's prissy rant on Twitter is funny as anything, saying he won't pay on December 1st, leaving the door open to backtrack and pay later.
Guest MattP Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 The change in the calculation does seem to have been approved in the last couple of years, from what I can tell, so presumably by the Cameron government for the UK. So, Cameron has approved a change in the calculation of our income since 1995 .....which has increased that income (mainly under Blair/Brown)....by including drug-dealing/prostitution....thereby leaving the UK owing more money to the EU....at precisely the moment when he faces a UKIP challenge over the EU....thereby giving a massive boost to those who want the UK to leave the EU (and maybe indirectly to Labour). You really couldn't make it up! You couldn't could you? It's quite obscene that these figures produced that have led to these payment demands also don't seem to take into account any debt, deficit or levels of borrowing that have occured since 1995 either and the effect of that on them. If he hadn't made his famous fruitcake speech I'd be accusing Cameron of being a closet kipper himself. Cameron's prissy rant on Twitter is funny as anything, saying he won't pay on December 1st, leaving the door open to backtrack and pay later. I hope for once he is telling the truth but I fear it's just more posturing and yet again in some way, shape or form we'll end up doing whatever someone else tells us. Although he clearly will have some backers on this, to be asking countries like Greece and Spain to be contributing more with the financial mess the Eurozone has brought to them is even worse than what they are asking of us.
DennisNedry Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/david-cameron-downright-angry-at-request-for-extra-funding-from-eu-9816315.html You go, girl!
Guest MattP Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Cameron's prissy rant on Twitter is funny as anything, saying he won't pay on December 1st, leaving the door open to backtrack and pay later. Just been on his Twitter and I think 'prissy rant' is a bit of an exaggeration Seems perfectly reasonable and 90% of people from all sides of the political spectrum seem to agree with it.
MooseBreath Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 The change in the calculation does seem to have been approved in the last couple of years, from what I can tell, so presumably by the Cameron government for the UK. So, Cameron has approved a change in the calculation of our income since 1995 .....which has increased that income (mainly under Blair/Brown)....by including drug-dealing/prostitution....thereby leaving the UK owing more money to the EU....at precisely the moment when he faces a UKIP challenge over the EU....thereby giving a massive boost to those who want the UK to leave the EU (and maybe indirectly to Labour). You really couldn't make it up! I'm not sure if changes to the methodology employed by the ONS need to be approved by the government. And in any case if you've got independent experts on statistics like the ONS telling you that a change needs to be made you're probably not going to tell them that they're wrong. I'm just surprised that the government didn't see it coming. But it's possible that they knew full well it was coming , and have been planning how they're going to react for some time. It does present Cameron with a timely opportunity to display his ability to stand up to the EU, after all, and that's exactly what he's trying to show today.
Strokes Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 This could work out really well for Cameron and the conservatives, if they stand firm.
Guest MattP Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 This could work out really well for Cameron and the conservatives, if they stand firm. It could, but despite his posturing Cameron actually loves the EU project. Most people who are well off do.
Guest MattP Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Farage shouldn't bother with his new EU group. While Barroso is on the march he doesn't need a penny to spend on publicity or advertising.
Strokes Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 It could, but despite his posturing Cameron actually loves the EU project. Most people who are well off do.It depends how serious he takes the threat from UKIP, what would Cameron do to cling on to power?
Guest MattP Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 It depends how serious he takes the threat from UKIP, what would Cameron do to cling on to power? I think he's burned his bridges full stop unless he gets a majority or can muster up enough seats with the liberals. He should be buying Osborne a box of Montechristos for Christmas as without him he'd be dead already.
Strokes Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 I think he's burned his bridges full stop unless he gets a majority or can muster up enough seats with the liberals. He should be buying Osborne a box of Montechristos for Christmas as without him he'd be dead already. Yeah, it's a shame George isn't more charismatic, he might have been a shoe in for the top job. It will take a lot for the Tories to win back UKIP voters, they have hardly been on a charm offensive. What do you predict will be the outcome of this latest farce then?
Guest MattP Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Certainly won't be paid Dec 1st. Lot of posturing, talks, showmanship resulting in us probably not paying the full amount but contributing a bit more. People from both sides claiming victory when the only winners again are the suits on the gravy train or the politicians trying to save face to their public. I didn't realise the commission this week voted to raise their own pensions as well while demanding more taxpayers money off Greece, they are taking the piss out of every single one of us.
Strokes Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 Certainly won't be paid Dec 1st. I didn't realise the commission this week voted to raise their own pensions as well while demanding more taxpayers money off Greece, they are taking the piss out of every single one of us. it must be embarrassing being pro EU at the moment.
yorkie1999 Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 The arrogance of the man. "i wont be paying it on dec 1st" he doesn't pay it , we all do.
Guest Kopfkino Posted 24 October 2014 Posted 24 October 2014 It could, but despite his posturing Cameron actually loves the EU project. Most people who are well off do. I don't think he loves it, he sees the benefits of the EU and acknowledges the downsides. What he wants is to push the benefits and try minimise some of the downsides, just like most of us
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