Rincewind Posted 22 November 2014 Share Posted 22 November 2014 Don't know if anyone knows it or saw any news in the media but there was a vote yesterday on a bill to prevent the privatisation of the NHS. Apparently the Coalition turn out was virtually non existant so the bill has got through the first phase. It now has to go to a sect committee, the house of Lords and another votes. There is an online petition which had nearly 100,000 signitures. I would have thought something like this would deserve some airtime on the news but it was dominated by UKIP and the gaff by that silly woman. The sell off would be to the highest bidder of which some contenders were American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 22 November 2014 Share Posted 22 November 2014 Why's it dumb? Because a total fvck of a government would totally fvck up the country. Britain has no God given right to remain one of the most prosperous nations on planet. Our continued success is quite a fragile thing. Wanting to intentionally fvck up the country seems to me rather dumb. That you think we could fvck up the country just for a laugh and feel no serious ill effects speaks volumes for how comfortable and secure people actually feel in this country, and by extension how competent our political system actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 November 2014 Share Posted 22 November 2014 Don't know if anyone knows it or saw any news in the media but there was a vote yesterday on a bill to prevent the privatisation of the NHS. Apparently the Coalition turn out was virtually non existant so the bill has got through the first phase. It now has to go to a sect committee, the house of Lords and another votes. There is an online petition which had nearly 100,000 signitures. I would have thought something like this would deserve some airtime on the news but it was dominated by UKIP and the gaff by that silly woman. The sell off would be to the highest bidder of which some contenders were American. I heard about it on radio 2, it's a private members bill which has no chance of succeeding, that's why it's not getting much coverage. It's also not about not selling off the NHS to the highest bidder that's not on the agenda,if it was even the evil right wing press like the BBC and the Guardian would be reporting it.It's something to do with the tendering process for certain services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 22 November 2014 Share Posted 22 November 2014 The sanctimonious Lib Dems make me puke. They have conveniently swept under the carpet the Lord Rennard "handling of women" scandal ..the toff's money is obviously far more important to them than the complaints of several women members who have now left the party... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l444ry Posted 22 November 2014 Share Posted 22 November 2014 Just when you thought politics couldn't get any lower................along come UKIP and Britain First Facebook posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 Just when you thought politics couldn't get any lower................along come UKIP and Britain First Facebook posts. I saw a photo on Facebook where some lowlife had daubed Muslims graves with their hate messages. Could not bring myself to post it in this forum to give them publicity.Regardless of anyones feelings about Muslims this is unacceptable as human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 I saw a photo on Facebook where some lowlife had daubed Muslims graves with their hate messages. Could not bring myself to post it in this forum to give them publicity.Regardless of anyones feelings about Muslims this is unacceptable as human beings. Don't see the connection with UKIP.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 Don't see the connection with UKIP..I think/hope he is talking about Britain first group. Which obviously have nothing to do with Ukip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 Two socialist worker members were jailed last year for pro BNP graffiti in an attempt to stir things up, we're in a good position if the far left need pretend racism exists by doing it themselves. Just seen the Skinner interview typical Labour, emotive language from 1980's politics that has no relevance today, the day his ilk die out can't come quick enough, ironically all the people he mentioned would actually qualify as an acceptable immigrant under the much touted points based system. Sick of this hyperbol tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 Easy mistake to make.Shouldn't be, UKIP are the only party who refuse membership to any ex BNP, NF Britain First members. Remember the Labour party are the only party who openly accept BNP councillors defecting to them, something incredibly underplayed by the media all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the fox Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 The idea that racism is confined to one set of party supporters or one culture is laughable...its in all countries.. is part of the human condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l444ry Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 Shouldn't be, UKIP are the only party who refuse membership to any ex BNP, NF Britain First members. Remember the Labour party are the only party who openly accept BNP councillors defecting to them, something incredibly underplayed by the media all things considered. Wonder if UKIP's holier than thou sham membership criteria would extend to accepting ex-BNP members voting for them. Or perhaps prevent them even making allies with holocaust deniers the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 The idea that racism is confined to one set party supporters or one culture is laughable...its in all countries.. is part of the human condition. No it's not. It comes from a lack of education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 Wonder if UKIP's holier than thou sham membership criteria would extend to accepting ex-BNP members voting for them. Or perhaps prevent them even making allies with holocaust deniers the EU.their allies in EU are irrelevant, the long term aim is too not participate in the process, its clearly a means to an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 No it's not. It comes from a lack of education.Are all the uneducated, racist or all the racist, uneducated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 Wonder if UKIP's holier than thou sham membership criteria would extend to accepting ex-BNP members voting for them. Or perhaps prevent them even making allies with holocaust deniers the EU. Well you can't control your voters. You need to read up a bit, the one have aligned with isn't a Holocaust denier, it's the leader of his party. Nice soundbite though. Least I know how to keep you off my doorstep now next May, I'll just hang an England flag out my window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l444ry Posted 23 November 2014 Share Posted 23 November 2014 Well you can't control your voters. You need to read up a bit, the one have aligned with isn't a Holocaust denier, it's the leader of his party. Nice soundbite though. Least I know how to keep you off my doorstep now next May, I'll just hang an England flag out my window. Don't fret Matt. No worries on that score. My allegiance is to Italy anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 24 November 2014 Share Posted 24 November 2014 Well I gathered it wouldn't be England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 25 November 2014 Author Share Posted 25 November 2014 So it is not enough that I pay loads of tax, then pay for my kids education from my after tax earnings, on top of which I then don't take up a state school place for them. Not for Labour! Now they want to remove business rates relief from the school I send my kids to as well. Labour, dragging people down to their level since 1900. Private schooling helps the exchequer to the sum of over £8billion a year, with taxes and savings on spending for kids not in state education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 25 November 2014 Author Share Posted 25 November 2014 Just when you thought politics couldn't get any lower................along come UKIP and Britain First Facebook posts. Jesus - we agree on something. That is a first. I am glad it is this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 So it is not enough that I pay loads of tax, then pay for my kids education from my after tax earnings, on top of which I then don't take up a state school place for them. Not for Labour! Now they want to remove business rates relief from the school I send my kids to as well. Labour, dragging people down to their level since 1900. Private schooling helps the exchequer to the sum of over £8billion a year, with taxes and savings on spending for kids not in state education. Misrepresentation alert: Labour DOESN'T want to remove business rates relief from private schools. As your link makes clear, Labour wants private schools to help state schools to improve by lending expertise, taking part in joint projects and providing guidance to help more state school pupils get to elite universities. That policy is supported by the Tories, too. Labour are only threatening to remove business rate relief from those private schools that don't co-operate adequately. Now, I've no idea how many private schools are cooperating inadequately. I'm sure that many are lending support very willingly. But it would hardly be surprising if some are dragging their feet. After all, the whole raison d'être of private schools is to allow their parents to use their hard-earned or ill-gotten wealth to buy privilege for their children. There wouldn't be much demand for private schools if free, state schools were providing their pupils with the same qualifications and career opportunities. There are widespread concerns about growing inequality, lack of social mobility, the inadequacies of some state schools and the predominance of people with a private education in elite universities, parliament, the judiciary, boardrooms etc. This policy seems entirely justified in that context. Even if you accept that the children of parents who have earned or inherited wealth should be entitled to a better education (allegedly) than other children, why the hell should they expect state subsidies AND the right to refuse to help other people in exchange for those subsidies?! If people at the other end of society did that, they'd be accused of being selfish and unpatriotic - and of being "scroungers". Perhaps the unions could adopt this tactic: expect tax relief on the promotion of their vested interests but refuse to provide wider support in exchange? If you "pay loads of tax", it is presumably because you earn loads of money. Good luck to you. I'm sure you work hard for it (not true of all people who can afford private schools). But you presumably already get plenty of benefits from your high earnings? Or are you seriously saying that the Tory government is taxing you to death? If you pay for your kids' education, that's a choice you've made, presumably because you see that as beneficial for them and money well spent, so why feel hard done by? So, private schools pay money to the exchequer? Well, so do most people and most businesses - and they don't expect tax breaks for doing their work, never mind the right to receive tax breaks despite declining to help others! We have a budget deficit, need to improve standards in state education - and "we're all in this together". Isn't that right?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 26 November 2014 Share Posted 26 November 2014 I can hear the lowering of the bar from a distance so it's Labour policy somewhere calling It plays into the hands again of trying to hoodwink the general public into believing that everyone who sends their kids to a private school is rich, in reality a huge number of these parents are already making huge sacrifices for their own children and dropping many things that they can't afford to allow them to do this, they shouldn't have to do that for other peoples children as well. To further punish such people is a deplorable act of class war policy. Hunt is moaning about the 130million they are losing in tax from this when the Independent schools commission has already claimed that the parents of private school educated children already save the country 4billion! You get the feeling we are getting back into the Ed Miliband 'I'll tax a bottle of water if I can' economic arguments. They like talking about 'politics of division' in the Labour party at the minute, it's a great shame they don't condemn it when one of their own engages in it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 26 November 2014 Share Posted 26 November 2014 It plays into the hands again of trying to hoodwink the general public into believing that everyone who sends their kids to a private school is rich, in reality a huge number of these parents are already making huge sacrifices for their own children and dropping many things that they can't afford to allow them to do this, they shouldn't have to do that for other peoples children as well. To further punish such people is a deplorable act of class war policy. The Mail reckons private school fees now cost so much that middle class British people struggle to afford them: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2774274/Middle-classes-priced-private-schools-Cost-attracting-foreign-pupils-forces-fees-up.html Average day (non-boarding) fees cost £12,700 per year per child, according to the Mail (other sources quote similar figures) As of 2012, the ONS put median household income at £23,200: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/household-income/middle-income-households/1977---2011-12/sty-middle-income-households.html So, sending 1 child as a day pupil to an average private school would cost 50%+ of average household income; sending 2 children would cost more than 100% of their income! Now, I know that a minority will be getting bursaries, some will be paying lower fees and only a tiny minority will be oligarchs, but the vast majority of parents paying £12,700 per year per child will be very well off indeed, thanks very much! A huge number of parents at all income levels make huge sacrifices for their children - and your implication that those not sending their children to private school are not doing so is pretty insulting, frankly. Many people have well above average levels of wealth because they've applied themselves, worked hard and taken their opportunities. Many others have got rich by exploiting and screwing other people or by sheer good fortune. Did the Duke of Westminster or Roman Abramavich work their fingers to the bone, making sacrifices to afford school fees, while nurses, teachers and small businesspeople sat on their arses and only have themselves to blame that they can't afford them? That's without asking why an innocent child should be placed at a lifelong disadvantage just because their parents can't afford school fees or are not prepared "to make huge sacrifices for their own children"! If wealth = merit and poverty = blame, why should the rich pay for anything?! Why should they pay tax to fund the NHS or the judiciary? Why should they pay tax at all? Let them withdraw from society completely. They can afford to buy their own healthcare, so why shouldn't they allow other people's children to die in the streets? They can afford to buy judges, why should those without the cash be entitled to a fair trial? Let's recreate Dickensian Britain or take it all the way back to serfdom! They're being "further punished" by being asked to do a little bit to benefit the country, from their advantaged position, are they?! Don't make me laugh! "We're all this together", aren't we? "Class war"? This from a fan of a government that said the deficit was so dire that it had to slash public services....yet made a priority of cutting tax for those earning £150k+ per year?!? There's a class war, alright - and the Eton Brigade on the government benches are waging it on the rest of us scum, with class enemies like you supporting them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseBreath Posted 26 November 2014 Share Posted 26 November 2014 Unless private schools deliver some measurable benefit to wider society, which they may well do, then I don't think they should be subsidised by the state. But I've no problem with people who can afford it paying to give their kids a better education. To want to limit that is nothing but envy, and it's hypocritical too, given the universal access to relatively high quality education we already have in this country. If equality was really what you wanted you'd support cutting education spending in this country in favour of sending money to help the majority of the world's kids who are still stuck with woefully inadequate schools. Funny how otherwise globally minded liberals become such hardcore nationalists as soon as there's something in it for them, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted 27 November 2014 Share Posted 27 November 2014 And to lighten the mood a little lets have an interlude from the serious stuff. The front cover of Private Eye is good this week. Extracts taken from PE depicting different newspaper headlines in reaction to the recent by-election in no particular order. DAILY MAIL Disaster for Milliband as Tories romp home in second place THE SUN Labour's Milliband humiliated as Tories lose again THE GUARDIAN Labour's in meltdown as Lib Dem's hold onto seventh place above dominmatrix THE TIMES Tories hail trijmphant by-election defeat as wheels fall off UKIP bandwagon. DAILY EXPRESS Farage pledges to stop coldest winter for a hundred years reaching Britain THE DAILY TELEGRAPH Marbella Frustrap on why the Fruity Fifties are having more sex than anyone else. OK back to the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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