Guest Bilo Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 I've only had the top 2 in my area from last time out so far, Labour and Lib Dem. Disappointing. Looking forward to the ones from the parties/independents I've never heard of, they are the ones that usually have at least one brilliant policy and at least one completely absurb/unrealistic policy. All in all, I've had six over the course of the campaign but four have arrived today. The BNP one, hilariously, is littered with typos and ropey grammar.
sphericalfox Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 Did anyone distribute the agenda for today's forum discussion? I don't think I must be on the list? I can't be expected to think for myself!
Head Honcho Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 Vote UKIP A speech 47 years ago warned us of the peril we now face...register to vote before midnight.
Harry - LCFC Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 Always a bit sickly when people pretend to be wise and mysterious when referring to Enoch Powell.
DB11 Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 All in all, I've had six over the course of the campaign but four have arrived today. The BNP one, hilariously, is littered with typos and ropey grammar. There are a few posters and flyers that claim to be from UKIP or BNP and are deliberately unprofessional with bad spelling, created by opposition to them in order to discredit the party.
bovril Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 Always a a bit sickly when people pretend to be wise and mysterious when referring to Enoch Powell. I'll bet that 95% of those people don't even know what he said.
Stadt Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 The Tiber will be foaming with blood or something like that
Guest Bilo Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 I'll bet that 95% of those people don't even know what he said. Or that the really racist stuff from the speech was him reading a letter written by a constituent. Apparently she was known in the area for being batshit.
bovril Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 Or that the really racist stuff from the speech was him reading a letter written by a constituent. Apparently she was known in the area for being batshit. Gillian Duffy?
Guest Bilo Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 Gillian Duffy? Apparently it was this person. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-433497/Widow-Enoch-Powells-Rivers-Blood-speech-really-did-exist.html
ADK Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 Bit harsh calling her that. It was Enoch's decision to use her as an example in his speech, and I'm sure many people would feel uncomfortable as she did.
Guest Bilo Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 Bit harsh calling her that. It was Enoch's decision to use her as an example in his speech, and I'm sure many people would feel uncomfortable as she did. Possibly, but that's the rep she had in the area.
Strokes Posted 20 April 2015 Posted 20 April 2015 Possibly, but that's the rep she had in the area. We take it for granted how immigration is now, it's not unusual or foreign to see people from any ethnicity walking the streets but it was then. Communities are very different now, we don't need the butcher the baker or the candlestick maker, we have the Internet. It's unfair to judge as it was all so very new and completely foreign then. We should be proud of how we handle immigration in this country, we are very civilised, as a society as a whole.
Alf Bentley Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Interesting stuff going on within the Tory party over Scotland: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3e887200-e799-11e4-8e3f-00144feab7de.html#axzz3XqvbQXlm http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/20/tories-playing-dangerous-game-scotland-lord-forsyth - (Lord) Michael Forsyth, ex-Thatcher minister, slating Cameron/Osborne for playing a dangerous game by praising Sturgeon, demonizing the SNP and fanning fears over a Lab/SNP post-election deal, thereby encouraging both Scottish nationalism and English nationalism - potentially leading to the break-up of the UK. - Meanwhile, John Major is set to intervene, supporting Cameron and claiming that, if Labour form a minority government, they'll be subject to "a daily dose of political blackmail from the SNP". Would such blackmail work, though? Under that scenario, if Miliband called the SNP's bluff and rejected attempts at political blackmail, would the SNP at Westminster really vote to bring down a Labour government (as they did in the late 70s), risking either (a) a reinforced Labour victory in a 2nd election; or (b) a Tory victory that they'd be powerless to counteract and that they'd be vilified for North of the border? Of course, they might gamble on a Tory government provoking even more Anglo-Scottish polarisation, leading to Scottish independence.... But, if so, why bother with the interregnum of a brief minority Labour government? Why not just enter into an unholy alliance with the Tories from the outset? Which is what they seem to be doing..... - SNP pretends to buddy up to Labour, allowing the Tories to run scare stories about Labour (which led the fight AGAINST Scottish independence, let us remember!) being in hock to the SNP, - Tories thereby fan English nationalism and anti-Scottish sentiment in England and win English seats off Labour. - Tories win the most seats, allowing for a political polarisation that suits Tories and Scots Nats alike Everyone's a winner! - The SNP get to be loudly anti-"Tory England", polarising Anglo-Scottish politics, promoting Scottish independence within a few years (they hope), promoting party advantage and breaking up the UK (their declared ambition) - The "Conservative and Unionist Party" ( ) also get to polarise Anglo-Scottish politics, promoting English nationalism in order to promote party advantage while not giving a flying fvck whether the UK breaks up or not, as they believe they'll dominate England, anyway Interesting times.... Post-election, anyone for pushing the Scots out of the UK, getting Engerland out of Europe and having a right-wing realignment, an English nationalist Tory/UKIP government running Engerland forever, slashing tax, wages and public services, and stamping on the faces of "chavs" and immigrants forever more? Yep! I thought there'd be a few takers out there! Vote to save One-Nation Britain! Vote Traffic Light: Red, Orange or Green, as appropriate!
Buce Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Interesting stuff going on within the Tory party over Scotland: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3e887200-e799-11e4-8e3f-00144feab7de.html#axzz3XqvbQXlm http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/20/tories-playing-dangerous-game-scotland-lord-forsyth - (Lord) Michael Forsyth, ex-Thatcher minister, slating Cameron/Osborne for playing a dangerous game by praising Sturgeon, demonizing the SNP and fanning fears over a Lab/SNP post-election deal, thereby encouraging both Scottish nationalism and English nationalism - potentially leading to the break-up of the UK. - Meanwhile, John Major is set to intervene, supporting Cameron and claiming that, if Labour form a minority government, they'll be subject to "a daily dose of political blackmail from the SNP". Would such blackmail work, though? Under that scenario, if Miliband called the SNP's bluff and rejected attempts at political blackmail, would the SNP at Westminster really vote to bring down a Labour government (as they did in the late 70s), risking either (a) a reinforced Labour victory in a 2nd election; or (b) a Tory victory that they'd be powerless to counteract and that they'd be vilified for North of the border? Of course, they might gamble on a Tory government provoking even more Anglo-Scottish polarisation, leading to Scottish independence.... But, if so, why bother with the interregnum of a brief minority Labour government? Why not just enter into an unholy alliance with the Tories from the outset? Which is what they seem to be doing..... - SNP pretends to buddy up to Labour, allowing the Tories to run scare stories about Labour (which led the fight AGAINST Scottish independence, let us remember!) being in hock to the SNP, - Tories thereby fan English nationalism and anti-Scottish sentiment in England and win English seats off Labour. - Tories win the most seats, allowing for a political polarisation that suits Tories and Scots Nats alike Everyone's a winner! - The SNP get to be loudly anti-"Tory England", polarising Anglo-Scottish politics, promoting Scottish independence within a few years (they hope), promoting party advantage and breaking up the UK (their declared ambition) - The "Conservative and Unionist Party" ( ) also get to polarise Anglo-Scottish politics, promoting English nationalism in order to promote party advantage while not giving a flying fvck whether the UK breaks up or not, as they believe they'll dominate England, anyway Interesting times.... Post-election, anyone for pushing the Scots out of the UK, getting Engerland out of Europe and having a right-wing realignment, an English nationalist Tory/UKIP government running Engerland forever, slashing tax, wages and public services, and stamping on the faces of "chavs" and immigrants forever more? Yep! I thought there'd be a few takers out there! Vote to save One-Nation Britain! Vote Traffic Light: Red, Orange or Green, as appropriate! Scary stuff, Alf, especially the allusion to Nineteen Eighty-Four.
Webbo Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Labour were quite happy to fan Scottish nationalism when it suited them. An SNP alliance with Labour where they impose laws on England that dont apply in Scotland will also stoke up English resentment that also furthers the SNP,s cause.
MooseBreath Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Would be great to get the Scots out so we could have our own proper democracy. All the lefties who felt just awful about it could always move up to Glasgow to be with all their caring sharing free-minded brethren. Like a hippy paradise is Aberdeen. And don't let's get talking about dundee, those people are so liberated, wow they're so modern. The Scotch, truly the most forward thinking people of all time. What's that? They only vote labour/snp to get their hands on English tax money? They have no ideological predisposition towards left wing politics and are just trying to get their greedy little mits on money they didn't earn? No way! I don't believe that for a second.
Strokes Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Interesting stuff going on within the Tory party over Scotland: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3e887200-e799-11e4-8e3f-00144feab7de.html#axzz3XqvbQXlm http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/20/tories-playing-dangerous-game-scotland-lord-forsyth - (Lord) Michael Forsyth, ex-Thatcher minister, slating Cameron/Osborne for playing a dangerous game by praising Sturgeon, demonizing the SNP and fanning fears over a Lab/SNP post-election deal, thereby encouraging both Scottish nationalism and English nationalism - potentially leading to the break-up of the UK. - Meanwhile, John Major is set to intervene, supporting Cameron and claiming that, if Labour form a minority government, they'll be subject to "a daily dose of political blackmail from the SNP". Would such blackmail work, though? Under that scenario, if Miliband called the SNP's bluff and rejected attempts at political blackmail, would the SNP at Westminster really vote to bring down a Labour government (as they did in the late 70s), risking either (a) a reinforced Labour victory in a 2nd election; or (b) a Tory victory that they'd be powerless to counteract and that they'd be vilified for North of the border? Of course, they might gamble on a Tory government provoking even more Anglo-Scottish polarisation, leading to Scottish independence.... But, if so, why bother with the interregnum of a brief minority Labour government? Why not just enter into an unholy alliance with the Tories from the outset? Which is what they seem to be doing..... - SNP pretends to buddy up to Labour, allowing the Tories to run scare stories about Labour (which led the fight AGAINST Scottish independence, let us remember!) being in hock to the SNP, - Tories thereby fan English nationalism and anti-Scottish sentiment in England and win English seats off Labour. - Tories win the most seats, allowing for a political polarisation that suits Tories and Scots Nats alike Everyone's a winner! - The SNP get to be loudly anti-"Tory England", polarising Anglo-Scottish politics, promoting Scottish independence within a few years (they hope), promoting party advantage and breaking up the UK (their declared ambition) - The "Conservative and Unionist Party" ( ) also get to polarise Anglo-Scottish politics, promoting English nationalism in order to promote party advantage while not giving a flying fvck whether the UK breaks up or not, as they believe they'll dominate England, anyway Interesting times.... Post-election, anyone for pushing the Scots out of the UK, getting Engerland out of Europe and having a right-wing realignment, an English nationalist Tory/UKIP government running Engerland forever, slashing tax, wages and public services, and stamping on the faces of "chavs" and immigrants forever more? Yep! I thought there'd be a few takers out there! Vote to save One-Nation Britain! Vote Traffic Light: Red, Orange or Green, as appropriate! I'm not a fan of the union anyway, so it bangs my drum perfectly.Would I be happy to see the back of labour? To coin a phrase from ed, hell yeah! Seriously though Alf, I think you are filling in the gaps quite imaginatively, is making ed out to be a victim the new tactic to attract voters?
leicsmac Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Would be great to get the Scots out so we could have our own proper democracy. All the lefties who felt just awful about it could always move up to Glasgow to be with all their caring sharing free-minded brethren. Like a hippy paradise is Aberdeen. And don't let's get talking about dundee, those people are so liberated, wow they're so modern. The Scotch, truly the most forward thinking people of all time. What's that? They only vote labour/snp to get their hands on English tax money? They have no ideological predisposition towards left wing politics and are just trying to get their greedy little mits on money they didn't earn? No way! I don't believe that for a second. By proper democracy you mean one-party rule in perpetuity, right? Come on Moosey, call a spade a spade as you know exactly what would happen to the political landscape here if the Scots did split.
Alf Bentley Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Scary stuff, Alf, especially the allusion to Nineteen Eighty-Four. Well spotted, Buce. Mind you, a lot of stuff emanating from all sides during an election is very 1984 - plenty of mind-bending "doublethink" all around.... Labour were quite happy to fan Scottish nationalism when it suited them. An SNP alliance with Labour where they impose laws on England that dont apply in Scotland will also stoke up English resentment that also furthers the SNP,s cause. Labour supported - and, yes, benefited from - Scottish DEVOLUTION (and the Tories opposed it). Labour always opposed Scottish NATIONALISM (i.e. independence) and led the campaign against independence last year. The Tories have now switched from opposing any form of devolution to fanning the flames of full-blown nationalism in both Scotland and England, solely to procure short-term party advantage, but apparently quite happy to risk the break-up of the UK. That's a big difference. As someone who doesn't want the UK to break up, I also think it's the wrong path - and an utterly immoral disgrace to do it purely for short-term advantage. As several responses to this have already shown, though, a lot of people on the Tory right positively relish the break-up of our country, so long as it eliminates leftist elements and allows Thatcherism to prevail in the rump English (& Welsh/N.I.) state. The Right already denies the SNP's democratic right to influence Westminster politics if they win the votes to do that (personally, I hope they don't). Like the Right in USA, they're not far short of denying the democratic right of elected leftist parties to govern. I expect a constitutional crisis, fuelled by the Tories and right-wing media, if Labour form a minority government. A post-election Tory Right / UKIP merger wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, either.
leicsmac Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Well spotted, Buce. Mind you, a lot of stuff emanating from all sides during an election is very 1984 - plenty of mind-bending "doublethink" all around.... Labour supported - and, yes, benefited from - Scottish DEVOLUTION (and the Tories opposed it). Labour always opposed Scottish NATIONALISM (i.e. independence) and led the campaign against independence last year. The Tories have now switched from opposing any form of devolution to fanning the flames of full-blown nationalism in both Scotland and England, solely to procure short-term party advantage, but apparently quite happy to risk the break-up of the UK. That's a big difference. As someone who doesn't want the UK to break up, I also think it's the wrong path - and an utterly immoral disgrace to do it purely for short-term advantage. As several responses to this have already shown, though, a lot of people on the Tory right positively relish the break-up of our country, so long as it eliminates leftist elements and allows Thatcherism to prevail in the rump English (& Welsh/N.I.) state. The Right already denies the SNP's democratic right to influence Westminster politics if they win the votes to do that (personally, I hope they don't). Like the Right in USA, they're not far short of denying the democratic right of elected leftist parties to govern. I expect a constitutional crisis, fuelled by the Tories and right-wing media, if Labour form a minority government. A post-election Tory Right / UKIP merger wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, either. Agree with all of that apart from the last paragraph Alf, from the point of view that I don't think Labour will form a minority government, or if they do it won't last long. I've honestly seen nothing to convince me that we're in for anything but deadlock for this election and possibly even from the next one in six months.
MooseBreath Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 By proper democracy you mean one-party rule in perpetuity, right? Come on Moosey, call a spade a spade as you know exactly what would happen to the political landscape here if the Scots did split. Doesn't matter what the result would be, what's important is that it would be a properly democratically elected government for England voted for by English voters, without being distorted by votes from what is effectively another country.
leicsmac Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Doesn't matter what the result would be, what's important is that it would be a properly democratically elected government for England voted for by English voters, without being distorted by votes from what is effectively another country. Of course the result matters. If it was a left-wing party who stood the chance amid the same circumstances you and your brethren would be squawking from the tip of Cowes to the fields of Gretna Green. Don't try to dress this up in altruism - it's way too obvious for that. As it happens, though I want to see the Union stay as it is I'm very much in favour of more decentralisation and more power being given to local government, but at a much smaller level - not a national one.
Vacamion Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Would be great to get the Scots out so we could have our own proper democracy. All the lefties who felt just awful about it could always move up to Glasgow to be with all their caring sharing free-minded brethren. Like a hippy paradise is Aberdeen. And don't let's get talking about dundee, those people are so liberated, wow they're so modern. The Scotch, truly the most forward thinking people of all time. What's that? They only vote labour/snp to get their hands on English tax money? They have no ideological predisposition towards left wing politics and are just trying to get their greedy little mits on money they didn't earn? No way! I don't believe that for a second. The Tories only polled slightly below the SNP up here in the 2010 GE. The independence movement remains a minority view, the SNP are only set to sweep the board at the GE because 40 something percent who voted yes will all religiously vote for one party and 40 something percent wins under FPTP. People up here run businesses and have mortgages and pensions, too, you know.
Alf Bentley Posted 21 April 2015 Posted 21 April 2015 Agree with all of that apart from the last paragraph Alf, from the point of view that I don't think Labour will form a minority government, or if they do it won't last long. I've honestly seen nothing to convince me that we're in for anything but deadlock for this election and possibly even from the next one in six months. I'll bet you a pint that we don't have another election within 6 months (you're coming back from Korea, aren't you, or are you going somewhere else? I'm not flying out to Korea!). I might be wrong, but surely the public wouldn't take kindly to another election this year, so any party responsible for causing one would be taking a big risk. If voting is similar to the polls, I'm fully expecting it to take at least 1-2 weeks for a government to be formed. Depending on the precise numbers, it could also be a short-lived government (though more like 1-2 years, not 6 months, I reckon, unless unexpected events intervene). Mind you, voting would only have to depart slightly from the polls for a deal excluding the SNP to become an option. Most polls suggest about 275 seats apiece for Con and Lab. If Con+LD or Lab+LD = 315+, then other options come into play (DUP, SDLP, Plaid etc.). All that would take would be either "big" party getting about an extra 10 seats and the Lib Dems getting about 30 seats (in line with current predictions). In case the SNP do hold the balance of power, Labour need to flush them out over the independence referendum. Labour could make clear that they would not countenance another referendum within the next 5 years, but that Scotland could have another one in 5-6 years time, if the Scottish Parliament votes for that. If the SNP won't agree to that, no deal - and the SNP end up looking like sore losers prepared to cause national chaos just to have an early repeat of the referendum they've just lost. From what I've read, the majority of Scots (including many in favour of independence) don't want another referendum any time soon. Provided Labour legislated for extended devolution and an alleviation of austerity politics, support for the SNP might well fall back.
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