Guest MattP Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 The same reason an Asian would take offence to the word P@k1 or a German to the bombing songs... WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Fox Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 The same reason an Asian would take offence to the word P@k1 or a German to the bombing songs... You're not the type to take offence easily are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 That all becomes very irrelevant when innocent civilians are being targeted doesn't it? By both sides. That's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Fox Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 By both sides. That's the point.I wasn't defending either side, I don't know enough about the conflict. All I meant was that neither sides actions can be legitimised (ie murdering innocent people). That can't be condoned, not in any war, unless civilian casualties are unavoidable to achieve a much bigger victory, and that still comes down to highest powers to decide and live with the consequences.Edit. My point is that killing innocent civilians to intimidate a population is murder, and cold blooded murder at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 I wasn't defending either side, I don't know enough about the conflict. All I meant was that neither sides actions can be legitimised (ie murdering innocent people). That can't be condoned, not in any war, unless civilian casualties are unavoidable to achieve a much bigger victory, and that still comes down to highest powers to decide and live with the consequences. Edit. My point is that killing innocent civilians to intimidate a population is murder, and cold blooded murder at that. That's exactly how both sides would have viewed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnup Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 Is it? Irrelevant of your views on Irish independence how can you support an organisation with their record? Firstly. I didn't say I support them. Secondly, it really depends how far back you look. I'd suggest a bit of reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnup Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 "It's not a case of supporting the IRA." That's my point - and it's why what Dangerous Tiger said wasn't ethnocentric. I'm afraid it is though. Saying nobody level headed could support a resistance to being colonized and subjugated to murder, inequality and torture is lookin at it from a very english stand point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan is a Welshman Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 The same reason an Asian would take offence to the word P@k1 or a German to the bombing songs... I would hope that anyone of Irish heritage wouldn't consider slurs against the IRA to be slurs against the Irish themselves. The IRA can't claim to represent the Irish. I think a better comparison would be a German being offended by slurs against the Nazis. Criticising the IRA is in no way comparable to using derogatory racist terms against Asians or any other nationalities. It's not a racial slur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan is a Welshman Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 I'm afraid it is though. Saying nobody level headed could support a resistance to being colonized and subjugated to murder, inequality and torture is lookin at it from a very english stand point. Support a resistance a la Gandhi? I agree. When that resistance starts killing innocent people? Nope - not level headed. I'll happily condemn both sides of the conflict (I can't see as a reasonable standpoint can be adopted without doing so) and that includes past British colonial powers. But criticising an organisation that is responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people is in no way ethnocentric - to say so clouds the proper issues at the heart of the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan is a Welshman Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 Firstly. I didn't say I support them. Secondly, it really depends how far back you look. I'd suggest a bit of reading. Haha, I didn't spot this comment. Interesting you think you can comment on how well read I am from a three line comment on a message board. You must have tremendous powers of perception if you can decipher the extent of my knowledge of the Irish conflict on the basis of a couple of lines on a message board. Bravo to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunyip Posted 25 November 2014 Share Posted 25 November 2014 Maybe I have caused confusion but I am not a supporter of the IRA. My grandparents and parents were accused when moving over and growing up in Leicester of supporting the IRA for simply being Irish so that is why I take offense of it. Absolutely feck all reason for it to be sung at a Leicester game vs. Sunderland of all people. And absolutely feck all reason for you to get upset about something not aimed at you in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnup Posted 26 November 2014 Share Posted 26 November 2014 Haha, I didn't spot this comment. Interesting you think you can comment on how well read I am from a three line comment on a message board. You must have tremendous powers of perception if you can decipher the extent of my knowledge of the Irish conflict on the basis of a couple of lines on a message board. Bravo to you. I'd feel slightly embarrassed if I'd said something like this and totally missed the irony of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnup Posted 26 November 2014 Share Posted 26 November 2014 Support a resistance a la Gandhi? I agree. When that resistance starts killing innocent people? Nope - not level headed. I'll happily condemn both sides of the conflict (I can't see as a reasonable standpoint can be adopted without doing so) and that includes past British colonial powers. But criticising an organisation that is responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people is in no way ethnocentric - to say so clouds the proper issues at the heart of the debate. No. To consider anyone holding a view point different to yours isn't level headed is an act of incredible arrogance and short sightedness. One that I feel is based in having an opinion that doesn't account for the views of one nation of the two being debated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishOxide Posted 28 November 2014 Share Posted 28 November 2014 I don't understand the need for this big discussion. The only reason this was sung was because it was in agreement with Sunderland fans. Why the Sunderland fans are singing it i'm not 100% sure but I suspect it's partially to do with their former player James McClean (now at Wigan) holding sympathetic views and refusing to wear the poppy every year. There is no political point being made, and there is no sweeping generalisation that needs to be made about our own fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titterofwit Posted 29 November 2014 Share Posted 29 November 2014 I don't understand the need for this big discussion. The only reason this was sung was because it was in agreement with Sunderland fans. Why the Sunderland fans are singing it i'm not 100% sure but I suspect it's partially to do with their former player James McClean (now at Wigan) holding sympathetic views and refusing to wear the poppy every year. There is no political point being made, and there is no sweeping generalisation that needs to be made about our own fans. James McLean explained himself in an articulate and nuanced way in a letter to the chairman of his current club. His position is honourable and understandable. If you feel that excuses the singing well good for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 29 November 2014 Share Posted 29 November 2014 I was around in the 80's, those feckers weren't so sympathetic to the ethnics either!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalis Posted 30 November 2014 Share Posted 30 November 2014 James McLean explained himself in an articulate and nuanced way in a letter to the chairman of his current club. His position is honourable and understandable. If you feel that excuses the singing well good for you Bit off topic but as a Northern Irish guy from a Catholic background can I just say that James McLean is a self serving tw@t who is a tool of the highest order. I can understand players defecting to play for the Republic of Ireland however he is such a w@nker about it who gives out to Norn Iron and any given opportunity despite the fact that he played for NI at a number of levels before defecting. I also very much doubt he articulated the letter in question. Suggested/written by an agent perhaps?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out Foxed Posted 30 November 2014 Share Posted 30 November 2014 ooh ahh up the ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 30 November 2014 Share Posted 30 November 2014 Has no relevance today the IRA , let these fat bald and 40plus wannabe baby squad combat 13 old fools sing THIER hearts out , they have poor personal hygiene , stone island jackets that don't fit and a distinct lack of an education , so let them sing away as all it does is give the rest of us a chance to give thanks for a proper upbringing and having a LIFE Ignore them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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