are we even playing badly?

[shailen]

If we're talking stats, pearson plays moneyball.

goals scored: 15 goals in  16 games = .9375 goals a game

goals conceded: 27 in 16 = 1.6875 goals per game

clean sheets: 2 out of 16 = 12.5 %

games where we haven't scored: 8 out of 16 = 50% !!!

shots for per game = 10.94

shots for on  target = 29% = 3 per game.

shots allowed per game 16.25

shots allowed on  target = 33.15% = 5.38 per game

 

these stats despite how you might think  we are playing tells the story of the season.

 

Stats do not tell the full story. In the Stoke game, they dominated us in all areas of the pitch yet we came out with a win, and they didn't feel vastly superior. Similarly I've felt we have given most teams recently a good game but haven't had that little bit of luck to get points on the board. The stats were never going to be in our favour in the premier league, we are going to be dominated by 3/4 of the teams in the league statistically speaking.

[Swiss_tony]

really.

the point of stats is they show how things work over the long term, not individual  items. They show long term  trends.

If you pick a small sample they're meaningless.

if the trend was like 'the Stoke game' we'd be undefeated and top of the league.

 

my gran smoked till she was 94, but that doesn't mean fags are good for you.

 

The trend is we're the worst team in  the league.

[shailen]

really.

the point of stats is they show how things work over the long term, not individual  items. They show long term  trends.

If you pick a small sample they're meaningless.

if the trend was like 'the Stoke game' we'd be undefeated and top of the league.

 

my gran smoked till she was 94, but that doesn't mean fags are good for you.

 

The trend is we're the worst team in  the league.

 

I never said that stats are meaningless, rather that they don't always tell the whole story. Just because the stats are against us it doesn't mean we played badly. It's all about stats in context anyway, when we were winning earlier in the season we had little possession, less shots on goals...etc yet we were getting results. Not much has changed from that point of view. If you're talking about trends I would argue that they haven't changed vastly, rather our ability go convert our chances and a lack of confidence. How do you quantify a lack of confidence with stats, surely that has an impact on being able to be clinical

[MC Prussian]

really.

the point of stats is they show how things work over the long term, not individual items. They show long term trends.

If you pick a small sample they're meaningless.

if the trend was like 'the Stoke game' we'd be undefeated and top of the league.

my gran smoked till she was 94, but that doesn't mean fags are good for you.

The trend is we're the worst team in the league.

You can take any period of time and twist the corresponding stats so they suit your argument.

Trends are just that. Trends. Anything can change and things do change in one's favour occasionally - it all depends on your angle.

Stats give you a record of past achievements, but they are no means to define future development.

What is your point, really? Not that you're disguising yourself, pretending to argue with facts, is it?

[reynard]

I understand where you're coming from but I do believe we have enough to survive. No team gets 102 points from the championship by fluke, we proved we were too good for that league, and with a bit of luck we have played well enough to be 12/13 in the table. What's worrying for me is that we are getting beat playing okay, so what happens when we have a bad game or a game where we don't compete.

 

It is going to take a miracle to survive. Last season was last season and has no realation to what is going on now.

We need around 30 more points to survive from 22 matches. At least 7 of those are pretty much nailed on losses. So we basically need to win 10 of 15 matches.

Are we playing ok? I don't think so. Individually we aren't good enough and collectively we are nowhere near. If we were battering sides and keepers were playing blinders or we just unlucky all the time then maybe there would be a case but we aren't. We barely create anything, we can't defend and when we get a chance most of our strikers can't score.

We looked Ok at times against Man City mainly because they didn't really need to play well to beat us. They stepped it up for about ten minutes, scored and knew that was pretty much the end of the game.

We haven't looked decent since the end of the first half against Burnley. Everything since has been somewhere between awful and inadequate.

[Swiss_tony]

i'm not taking 'any period of time and twist  the corresponding stats so they suit your argument', these are our stats for the WHOLE of this season.

i'm pointing out that  people like you have no  factual  basis for pretending we're anything other than the worst  team in the league.

i don't really understand your point? is it that because the stats don't back up what you think then you should ignore them?

what kind of idiotic argument is that?

 

what is my point? The original OP asked are we really playing that  badly, looking at the stats says yes.

 

You can take any period of time and twist the corresponding stats so they suit your argument.

Trends are just that. Trends. Anything can change and things do change in one's favour occasionally - it all depends on your angle.

Stats give you a record of past achievements, but they are no means to define future development.

What is your point, really? Not that you're disguising yourself, pretending to argue with facts, is it?

[MC Prussian]

i'm not taking 'any period of time and twist  the corresponding stats so they suit your argument', these are our stats for the WHOLE of this season.

i'm pointing out that  people like you have no  factual  basis for pretending we're anything other than the worst  team in the league.

i don't really understand your point? is it that because the stats don't back up what you think then you should ignore them?

what kind of idiotic argument is that?

 

what is my point? The original OP asked are we really playing that  badly, looking at the stats says yes.

Like I said, using stats and twisting them so they suit your argument.

 

You are taking the stats for this season (16 games overall) as a basis for your point which actually means you are in fact using particular stats that cover a particular period of time and twist them so they suit your argument.

 

We are not playing badly, stats don't tell you everything.

Looking at the way we're playing from game to game, we're holding up pretty well. It's individual mistakes that have cost us more than anything.

[Swiss_tony]

No, i looked at the stats and came to  a conclusion. not the other way  around.

the OP hypothesis was 'are we playing that  badly'.

i thought maybe he has a point, maybe we've had loads of shots on target and goalies have just  had a good day, maybe we've been  dominating possession and just  not scoring, maybe our defence has just  been unlucky and that teams have had the odd shot and scored.

so i looked at the stats for this season, the whole season,  which is not a subset, it's everything.

when you look  at them, we are not unlucky, we are bad.

simple to  anybody  with critical  thinking skills above the age of a ten  year old.

if you want to BELIEVE we played better, feel  free, just  don't go  around saying i've 'twisted'  the facts.

because they're right there from the espn, barclays, websites for all  to  see.

so  far everything you have said makes you look like a complete empty headed numpty, and the hole is getting deeper the more you post.

quit while you're ahead (well behind actually).

 

Like I said, using stats and twisting them so they suit your argument.

 

You are taking the stats for this season (16 games overall) as a basis for your point which actually means you are in fact using particular stats that cover a particular period of time and twist them so they suit your argument.

 

We are not playing badly, stats don't tell you everything.

Looking at the way we're playing from game to game, we're holding up pretty well. it's individual mistakes that have cost us more than anything.

[sylofox]

i'm not taking 'any period of time and twist  the corresponding stats so they suit your argument', these are our stats for the WHOLE of this season.

i'm pointing out that  people like you have no  factual  basis for pretending we're anything other than the worst  team in the league.

i don't really understand your point? is it that because the stats don't back up what you think then you should ignore them?

what kind of idiotic argument is that?

 

what is my point? The original OP asked are we really playing that  badly, looking at the stats says yes.

Can be used in any way you want.

Draws against Arsenal and Everton and beating United and Stoke away to start with.

2-0 away at Chelsea whit there fans saying we would stop up playing like that and 0-1 to Man city is not playing badly.

Even the 1-3 to Liverpool a scouse watching the game in my local said we did not deserve that result.

 

Players getting sent off and mistakes and not taking enough chances are what is costing us.

Yes we have lost to many games but we have not been stuffed by anyone yet.

 

So in my mind playing badly No not playing well enough yes.

Cut out the mistakes we may have had another 4pts convert more chances may have given us another 4 or more.

Then we are sat mid table so badly no just not well enough.

[MC Prussian]

No, i looked at the stats and came to  a conclusion. not the other way  around.

the OP hypothesis was 'are we playing that  badly'.

i thought maybe he has a point, maybe we've had loads of shots on target and goalies have just  had a good day, maybe we've been  dominating possession and just  not scoring, maybe our defence has just  been unlucky and that teams have had the odd shot and scored.

so i looked at the stats for this season, the whole season,  which is not a subset, it's everything.

when you look  at them, we are not unlucky, we are bad.

simple to  anybody  with critical  thinking skills above the age of a ten  year old.

if you want to BELIEVE we played better, feel  free, just  don't go  around saying i've 'twisted'  the facts.

because they're right there from the espn, barclays, websites for all  to  see.

so  far everything you have said makes you look like a complete empty headed numpty, and the hole is getting deeper the more you post.

quit while you're ahead (well behind actually).

Like I said - you're taking a particular sets of stats and use them to say we're playing badly, when in fact we've been unlucky a lot of times over the past four months.

Have you actually seen us play, Tony?

The difference is marginal, we lack a bit of spark. Without individual mistakes, we'd be a couple of points clearer of 20th spot/nearer 17th spot.

 

And I'm afraid, the numpty's on you (see your post history on this forum).

[shailen]

Like I said - you're taking a particular sets of stats and use them to say we're playing badly, when in fact we've been unlucky a lot of times over the past four months.

Have you actually seen us play, Tony?

The difference is marginal, we lack a bit of spark. Without individual mistakes, we'd be a couple of points clearer of 20th spot/nearer 17th spot.

 

And I'm afraid, the numpty's on you (see your post history on this forum).

 

Completely agree with this. If we didn't concede an unnecessary free kick against Burnley, an unfortunate own goal vs West Brom and actually taken our chances against Sunderland and not conceded soft goals against QPR we would be well up the table. Yes it is a lot of 'ifs and buts', but genuinely these are mistakes that can be cut out. All I'm saying is our general play has been good, and in the games we played we haven't been outclassed by anyone but Swansea. 

[Guest Col city fan]

Some of ours 'fans' will do anything to make out we are ok. We aren't at present..we have been generally shocking.

You can hurl all the 'what ifs' at any team. Every set of fans from every club can argue over 'what ifs' until they are blue in the face.

It's straw clutching behaviour. The table don't lie. We must turn this around quickly. Having read the Terry Robinson thread throughout, however, I really am starting to wonder who on earth posts on this forum.

[dedlock]

Completely agree with this. If we didn't concede an unnecessary free kick against Burnley, an unfortunate own goal vs West Brom and actually taken our chances against Sunderland and not conceded soft goals against QPR we would be well up the table. Yes it is a lot of 'ifs and buts', but genuinely these are mistakes that can be cut out. All I'm saying is our general play has been good, and in the games we played we haven't been outclassed by anyone but Swansea. 

If ! I know what you mean.

 

Need less" ifs" for the rest of the season,less defensive frailty,more ruthless in the final third.

[MC Prussian]

Some of ours 'fans' will do anything to make out we are ok. We aren't at present..we have been generally shocking.

You can hurl all the 'what ifs' at any team. Every set of fans from every club can argue over 'what ifs' until they are blue in the face.

It's straw clutching behaviour. The table don't lie. We must turn this around quickly. Having read the Terry Robinson thread throughout, however, I really am starting to wonder who on earth posts on this forum.

No, we haven't. And that's indisputable. Occasionally? Yes. Generally? Nope.

 

The table at present is a snapshot four months into the first season back in the Premier League for ten years.

 

I'm starting to wonder people are mistaking us for another club. Everton for instance.

[Guest Col city fan]

No, we haven't. And that's indisputable. Occasionally? Yes. Generally? Nope.

The table at present is a snapshot four months into the first season back in the Premier League for ten years.

I'm starting to wonder people are mistaking us for another club. Everton for instance.

You again..

There's a surprise

[MC Prussian]

You again..

There's a surprise

Are you talking to yourself again, Colin?

[sylofox]

Some of ours 'fans' will do anything to make out we are ok. We aren't at present..we have been generally shocking.

You can hurl all the 'what ifs' at any team. Every set of fans from every club can argue over 'what ifs' until they are blue in the face.

It's straw clutching behaviour. The table don't lie. We must turn this around quickly. Having read the Terry Robinson thread throughout, however, I really am starting to wonder who on earth posts on this forum.

I agree with your point If's and But's do mean nothing.

But one fact is no one has stuffed us yet and without silly mistakes at both ends we would be better off.

The Man City game say's it all most on here thought 4-0 plus I thought we would get something out of that game.

At 0-1 I was closer than most on here us scoring one or Lampard not being left free would have done that.

 

We are not a million miles from getting results and atm that is closer than us getting stuffed every week.

All we need is a 1-0 going in off of someones arse if need be the players will respond.

[woznotwos]

36 points would you all  agree for survival ?  26 points from 22 games .  7 wins/5 draws/10 losses-  Gonna be a massively tough ask . Maybe the new system and a couple of signings in January might just tip the balance ? 

[Dr The Singh]

Like I said, using stats and twisting them so they suit your argument.

You are taking the stats for this season (16 games overall) as a basis for your point which actually means you are in fact using particular stats that cover a particular period of time and twist them so they suit your argument.

We are not playing badly, stats don't tell you everything.

Looking at the way we're playing from game to game, we're holding up pretty well. It's individual mistakes that have cost us more than anything.

Fook me, your blue tinted specs are well beyond the norm.

[Jacnah]

I agree with your point If's and But's do mean nothing.

But one fact is no one has stuffed us yet and without silly mistakes at both ends we would be better off.

The Man City game say's it all most on here thought 4-0 plus I thought we would get something out of that game.

At 0-1 I was closer than most on here us scoring one or Lampard not being left free would have done that.

 

We are not a million miles from getting results and atm that is closer than us getting stuffed every week.

All we need is a 1-0 going in off of someones arse if need be the players will respond.

spot on.

 

So far we have the worst record in the league; that's indisputable. 

 

we are losing -indisputable again and self evidently the reason we are bottom of the league

 

losing and playing badly are not the same thing and with a couple of exceptions We are not playing badly - we are almost there, but at the moment just not quite and we need reinforcements in the Jan window. 

 

This is not the time for wholesale change or panic measures

[sylofox]

spot on.

 

So far we have the worst record in the league; that's indisputable. 

 

we are losing -indisputable again and self evidently the reason we are bottom of the league

 

losing and playing badly are not the same thing and with a couple of exceptions We are not playing badly - we are almost there, but at the moment just not quite and we need reinforcements in the Jan window. 

 

This is not the time for wholesale change or panic measures

Agree with that and yes we have problems at the back and up front for whatever reason.

But one player I wish we had right now is a Robbie Savage.

A get stuck in player that gave there midfield something to think about a terrier warrior sleeves rolled up and get stuck in player.

 

A player with bite that no one enjoys playing against.

We are a very soft side we need an animal in midfield as this is a war.

[shailen]

I think we're too honest at times and not committing cynical fouls when they're needed. Abonloghor the other week, we should have fouled and prevented the subsequent goal. As mentioned in the above post a Savage type player would do this. 

[MooseBreath]

Of the midfielders you can choose from our successful premier league side, how the hell is anyone choosing Robbie Savage over Lennon or Izzet? Either of the latter two would improve our side massively. Savage, not so much. Even Andy Impey would improve us more than Savage. Imagine Steve Guppy on the wing now feeding crosses and set pieces for Ulloa. Emily Hesket up front. Tony Cottee. Matt Elliot at the back. So many quality players from that era. Robbie fvcking Savage, you've got to be kidding me.

I'll never get this whole "we need a violent cheat" in midfield thing. It's football not hooliganism.

[Pearson Nigel]

The thing that's really irritating me with the run that we're on is the fact that I think we aren't even playing too bad. Many of the performances during our run have been good, and we have been in all the games but the Swansea away game where we looked poor. The thing that's letting us down is individual mistakes, and some of our defensive positioning at times. I don't think signing anyone will help us to a great deal as we are, rather the coaches at the club need to improve the way we defend and we should start to keep clean sheets. Also the manager needs to be a bit harsh on the players just to get them to be that little bit more cautious and aware. Nige seems to protect them far too much, and although I agree we aren't playing too badly, I'd rather him give them something to spur them on, privately or publicly.

Well shaman Shalin we ain't playing great we are bottom me old mucker!

[shailen]

Of the midfielders you can choose from our successful premier league side, how the hell is anyone choosing Robbie Savage over Lennon or Izzet? Either of the latter two would improve our side massively. Savage, not so much. Even Andy Impey would improve us more than Savage. Imagine Steve Guppy on the wing now feeding crosses and set pieces for Ulloa. Emily Hesket up front. Tony Cottee. Matt Elliot at the back. So many quality players from that era. Robbie fvcking Savage, you've got to be kidding me.

I'll never get this whole "we need a violent cheat" in midfield thing. It's football not hooliganism.

 

The argument isn't about who the best player out of the three were. It's about what we are missing from our squad and that is a Savage type player in my opinion. Take Arsenal for example, they have the most creative midfielders in their squad, but they are missing that player who can break up play and set up attacks. No one is saying we need to become violent, but definitely a little more aggression wouldn't do any harm.