are we even playing badly?

[Guest Col city fan]

but do you think pearson can do much more on terms of formation,line up etc because I think he's doing all he can with what he's got,the players just need a break,1-0 win smash and grab at West Ham on Saturday and we'll turn a corner imo,I just don't agree that were that bad on a week to week basis,were a goal a game away from points wise being in a better position that we are,our goal difference and results are evidence that were competing,and when you look back at liverpool,Aston villa,qpr of recent games,there my justification that it's been individual errors that are costing us,as the overall team effort is there.

The effort is there. Undoubtedly. The fight is there. But a team that has got 2 points from 33 ain't just unlucky buddy. That does imply a bad team, at least at present. Unlucky would be a few losses, maybe with a win or two somewhere. This is more than that. I just hope we can turn it around. Look at the pre match Scoreline thread tho. Not many people think it'll start at West Ham.

[Guest Col city fan]

So, in essence, your dismay at our current situation stems from the fact that you think we haven't learnt quickly enough. Fair enough. But shit happens. Players are human. If things don't go according to your expectations, grow up. Stop throwing your toys out of the pram. We just happen to support a team who's lacking that one particular piece to make it competitive enough to fight for safety in this division. We're not far off other teams around us and trends can be reversed as quickly as they are started - that also applies to our current winless run.

You also finally admit that the majority of our problems are created through pressure applied on the flanks. Thank you! Please note that (apart from a few teams in Spain, Germany and Italy) our team is facing the world's crème de la crème as far as wingers are concerned. Of course, a De Laet or a Konchesky will have troubles coping with the speed and accuracy of some of the best wingers and their crosses - you could say, with some opposing teams, their wingers cost more than our entire team!

You also admit that West Ham had a dire last season and barely scraped through. What happened there is:

a) West Ham avoided relegation - the manager/club was thus able to attract more of the players of the desired calibre (not just thanks to the TV revenue)

b) Allardyce has been in the Premier League before, knows it inside out

c) West Ham are a London club with a lot of previous PL experience and a certain name to them (more attractive than Leicester; and no, Lamby can **** off with Charlton)

You're comparing our situation with (more) established Premier League sides. You can't do that. They're operating from a completely different basis to start with!

Chelsea have money, West Ham have money, Chelsea have a terrific manager (as much as some hate him, he's class), Allardyce's not a dumb cookie, either. Chelsea have a name, a pedigree, a magnet function, a rich owner like nobody else and they can build on previous successes in this league.

We can't compete with that. Because we're Leicester. What do we have to show for? We've been off the radar for ten years!

If you want to compare us to heavyweights like Chelsea, we'll need 30 years of our own in this division. That'd be a fair side-by-side.

The only logical consequence now, given the circumstances, is to let it all go and simply enjoy the ride.

I'm with you on that. But no-one is throwing their toys out a pram buddy. I've recently started a thread, essentially saying stick with it. What I HAVE said is that we have been pretty dreadful, so are playing badly. But you chose to jump on that, making some assumptions that I was saying something other than just that. Which I wasnt.

[Babylon]

Sometimes we've been poor, sometimes we've been average, very seldom we've been good, too often we've been close to pulling it together but haven't quite managed it.

 

Yes Col is right we're making more individual errors than before, that's because it's a higher level and we're under a damn site more pressure and the opposition is having huge chunks of the ball. So yes, there is a reason for more mistakes happening. BUT... you cannot deny that some of these errors (at both ends of the pitch) have had little to do with being under a lot of pressure. Lots of them have just been very poor play with a bit of shit luck thrown in at times (Morgan v West Brom).

 

A couple of these errors not happening at the back, or a striker not missing an easy chance and we'd be in the pack with the other 5 clubs above us. We're fractions away from being in that pack currently, that's why I still believe it's more than possible to string a run of results together. Burnley have, absolutely no reason we can't do the same.

[Guest Col city fan]

Sometimes we've been poor, sometimes we've been average, very seldom we've been good, too often we've been close to pulling it together but haven't quite managed it.

Yes Col is right we're making more individual errors than before, that's because it's a higher level and we're under a damn site more pressure and the opposition is having huge chunks of the ball. So yes, there is a reason for more mistakes happening. BUT... you cannot deny that some of these errors (at both ends of the pitch) have had little to do with being under a lot of pressure. Lots of them have just been very poor play with a bit of shit luck thrown in at times (Morgan v West Brom).

A couple of these errors not happening at the back, or a striker not missing an easy chance and we'd be in the pack with the other 5 clubs above us. We're fractions away from being in that pack currently, that's why I still believe it's more than possible to string a run of results together. Burnley have, absolutely no reason we can't do the same.

[skmanuk]

The thing that's really irritating me with the run that we're on is the fact that I think we aren't even playing too bad. Many of the performances during our run have been good, and we have been in all the games but the Swansea away game where we looked poor. The thing that's letting us down is individual mistakes, and some of our defensive positioning at times. I don't think signing anyone will help us to a great deal as we are, rather the coaches at the club need to improve the way we defend and we should start to keep clean sheets. Also the manager needs to be a bit harsh on the players just to get them to be that little bit more cautious and aware. Nige seems to protect them far too much, and although I agree we aren't playing too badly, I'd rather him give them something to spur them on, privately or publicly.

Really want to agree with you, but, I'm watching derby tonight ( just 1-0 I know, but there playing some great football) and I fear they would destroy us today. I don't know what's gone wrong but we're a shadow of last years team.

[MC Prussian]

I'm with you on that. But no-one is throwing their toys out a pram buddy. I've recently started a thread, essentially saying stick with it. What I HAVE said is that we have been pretty dreadful, so are playing badly. But you chose to jump on that, making some assumptions that I was saying something other than just that. Which I wasnt.

Well, you're stating the obvious, that's for sure.

 

You waste so much time on repeating yourself.

Try focusing on the positives instead or try to look at the whole picture and maybe think about what the scenario of a possible relegation with this squad and manager could mean for this club.

Would it spell the end?

Really want to agree with you, but, I'm watching derby tonight ( just 1-0 I know, but there playing some great football) and I fear they would destroy us today. I don't know what's gone wrong but we're a shadow of last years team.

Maybe it's not (just) us, maybe it's also the type of opposition we're facing compared to last season.

[Russell sprout]

Sometimes we've been poor, sometimes we've been average, very seldom we've been good, too often we've been close to pulling it together but haven't quite managed it.

Yes Col is right we're making more individual errors than before, that's because it's a higher level and we're under a damn site more pressure and the opposition is having huge chunks of the ball. So yes, there is a reason for more mistakes happening. BUT... you cannot deny that some of these errors (at both ends of the pitch) have had little to do with being under a lot of pressure. Lots of them have just been very poor play with a bit of shit luck thrown in at times (Morgan v West Brom).

A couple of these errors not happening at the back, or a striker not missing an easy chance and we'd be in the pack with the other 5 clubs above us. We're fractions away from being in that pack currently, that's why I still believe it's more than possible to string a run of results together. Burnley have, absolutely no reason we can't do the same.

Col isn't saying its individual errors like myself,he's saying it collective errors,and that I'm deluded for saying it is individual errors????

Then he gives you a thumbs up to your post????

He said look at the bigger picture,which would lead me to think that his problem is with pearson tatics & selections but he's pro pearson,

So I've no idea what point he is trying to make?

[Guest Col city fan]

Col isn't saying its individual errors like myself,he's saying it collective errors,and that I'm deluded for saying it is individual errors????

Then he gives you a thumbs up to your post????

He said look at the bigger picture,which would lead me to think that his problem is with pearson tatics & selections but he's pro pearson,

So I've no idea what point he is trying to make?

If you don't get it, you don't get it. No probs

Babs does, and I agree. Hence the thumb up.

[Russell sprout]

If you don't get it, you don't get it. No probs

Babs does, and I agree. Hence the thumb up.

For reasons stated above,is it individual errors or collective errors col,

Is it Pearson that the problem 'looking at the bigger picture'

I think I'm in the majority who are struggling with who you think the book lies with and it changes from one post to the other,

It's like someone saying

It's not one or two persons fault this bussiness is shit,it's everyones,even those performing well,but it's not the managers fault either,he's the right man for us,doesn't really make sence col and to be fair you usually do.

[Guest Col city fan]

For reasons stated above,is it individual errors or collective errors col,

Is it Pearson that the problem 'looking at the bigger picture'

I think I'm in the majority who are struggling with who you think the book lies with and it changes from one post to the other,

It's like someone saying

It's not one or two persons fault this bussiness is shit,it's everyones,even those performing well,but it's not the managers fault either,he's the right man for us,doesn't really make sence col and to be fair you usually do.

Mate, there have been individual errors...absolutely. But to focus on these exclusively ie. To say that stopping individual errors will make us win, is ignoring the bigger picture. The errors are happening because we aren't playing very well. Become a better, more confident side, the error will lessen. You can't really coach out individual errors..they happen because we are panicking. Usually anyway.

Take the strikers... We know Vardy can hit the target. We've seen him do it. Now, Vardy is under so much pressure to score because he gets one or two chances per game. He knows if he misses, we'll probably lose the game. Missing a goal is an 'individual error', not brought about because Vardy is crap, but because of the psychological thing. Having to score means you will snatch at chances. Unless you are a great striker, like Costa.

Same with the defence. Psychologically, they know that if they miss a header or fluff a clearance, there will be a Premiership goal scorer to punish them.

So....yes individual errors are being made, at both ends. Why? Because we are a side short of confidence, lacking victories and knowing that not taking a goal or making a clearance will probably result in us losing..again.

My thoughts on this are make us more solid, more hard to beat. Support the defence. Help them to stop making errors by playing a formation which results in the opposition having less chance of scoring. My hope is that the knock on effect of this would be to relieve some of the pressure from the attacking players. That's what Sunderland are doing, for example. They have a shaky back four (Wes Brown and O'Shea, for example), but are proving difficult to beat, at least a lot of the time. This COULD be because Cattermole is playing right in front of their back four. He's INDIVIDUALLY not a great player, but COLLECTIVELY, does a job which helps the entire team, and their game plan. Song does pretty much the same for West Ham.

I can't make it clearer than that. If people don't see that this is having an impact at Sunderland and West Ham respectively, they aren't looking.

It is exactly for this reason I suggested I'd rather sign Cattermole (or equivalent) than Cambiasso. When people were drooling at the prospect of having a 'world class' player at the club, I wanted a player who could have this collective impact on us. We were always going to be playing opposition that put us under pressure. My shout was for a fitter, tougher ball-winner to support the defence, than an ageing player who, individually, is still good, can no longer provide this defensive shield I suggested we would need. Nothing, so far, has made me change my view on that and while people are still drooling over our 'flute player', we sit five points adrift at the base of the division.

[benpicko]

Against Man City we certainly didn't, we just need a striker who can do more than just run around and put pressure on people

[sphericalfox]

[Babylon]

Col isn't saying its individual errors like myself,he's saying it collective errors,and that I'm deluded for saying it is individual errors????

Then he gives you a thumbs up to your post????

He said look at the bigger picture,which would lead me to think that his problem is with pearson tatics & selections but he's pro pearson,

So I've no idea what point he is trying to make?

The way I look at it, is that it's a bit of everything. More forced errors because of being under more pressure (natural in this league), the management haven't helped that with some of their tactics, but also some errors have just been very poor play by individuals nothing to do with anyone but themselves.

 

I agree sometimes his points are clouded though, like the one above that drifts on to Cattermole again (kill me now).

[Guest Col city fan]

The way I look at it, is that it's a bit of everything. More forced errors because of being under more pressure (natural in this league), the management haven't helped that with some of their tactics, but also some errors have just been very poor play by individuals nothing to do with anyone but themselves.

I agree sometimes his points are clouded though, like the one above that drifts on to Cattermole again (kill me now).

Kill me now! Don't despair!

[Guest Col city fan]

The way I look at it, is that it's a bit of everything. More forced errors because of being under more pressure (natural in this league), the management haven't helped that with some of their tactics, but also some errors have just been very poor play by individuals nothing to do with anyone but themselves.

I agree sometimes his points are clouded though, like the one above that drifts on to Cattermole again (kill me now).

Why do you think i 'drift on to Cattermole' (or equivalent)?

When people still bring this up, I'll keep responding.

Chelsea played two DM's last night in Mikel and Matic..to shield the back four. Not one, but two. If it's good enough for a side seeking the quadruple, it might be good enough for a side that is in a completely dismal run of results.

Im not at all clouded. I've been clear what i think we should have done. Clearer than most i suggest. But when you state a concrete idea (and suggest with whom you could do it), you are there to be shot at. Who cares? Rather than than be a parennial fence sitter.

[shailen]

Clearly we are making some errors, a lot of them from a defensive positioning point of view, and our strikers not taking their chances. I really wish we had got beat 5-0/6-0 because that would have motivated the players to perform better and cut the mistakes out. It's like an exam at school, if you completely fail it you're motivated to do better in the next one, but if you just miss out on an A grade you don't really think twice about the mistakes you made

[Crinklyfox]

We're getting closer to playing to our potential. Some players are still developing, unfortunately IMO some will not attain Premiership class. Even if we were playing to our potential we still need a greater goal scoring threat, both up front and from midfield, and a stronger back four that operates as a unit.

In most games I've seen this season we have been markedly second best, unless that changes I don't see us sufficiently improving our current position.

I'm not throwing bricks at either the squad or the manager. All players have dips in form and we weren't great, particularly in October/November. We just don't have the strength in depth to cater for such problems at present.

[filbertway]

Why do you think i 'drift on to Cattermole' (or equivalent)?

When people still bring this up, I'll keep responding.

Chelsea played two DM's last night in Mikel and Matic..to shield the back four. Not one, but two. If it's good enough for a side seeking the quadruple, it might be good enough for a side that is in a completely dismal run of results.

Im not at all clouded. I've been clear what i think we should have done. Clearer than most i suggest. But when you state a concrete idea (and suggest with whom you could do it), you are there to be shot at. Who cares? Rather than than be a parennial fence sitter.

 

I think if we went with 2 dm's we would never score. When you have players like Willian, Oscar, Costa, Hazard, Drogba, Fabregas it's a lot easier to slice defences open with fewer men. You definitely need to stop comparing us to Chelsea.

 

I'd be happy to see us play the same formation as we played against Man City though, we definitely need some protection/an extra body in the middle there to protect us from counter attacks or being overloaded by the opposition. Slowly but surely we're getting there, we'll have a decent run eventually when it clicks into place. In the mean time as long as the performances remain encouraging I can't ask for much more.

 

I do realise though, my standards and expectations are a lot lower than most people's

[shailen]

We're getting closer to playing to our potential. Some players are still developing, unfortunately IMO some will not attain Premiership class. Even if we were playing to our potential we still need a greater goal scoring threat, both up front and from midfield, and a stronger back four that operates as a unit.

In most games I've seen this season we have been markedly second best, unless that changes I don't see us sufficiently improving our current position.

I'm not throwing bricks at either the squad or the manager. All players have dips in form and we weren't great, particularly in October/November. We just don't have the strength in depth to cater for such problems at present.

 

I understand where you're coming from but I do believe we have enough to survive. No team gets 102 points from the championship by fluke, we proved we were too good for that league, and with a bit of luck we have played well enough to be 12/13 in the table. What's worrying for me is that we are getting beat playing okay, so what happens when we have a bad game or a game where we don't compete.

[Dan]

Yes we are playing badly. Man City was an improvement but we still suffered from the same mistakes that have haunted us all season, though it can be forgiven against Man City. If we play like that away at Hull, we might, just might, actually not lose.

 

4-4-2 was binned off for Man City and I'd like to hope it's kept that way. Villa was the final straw for me. If you're allowing hoofball Villa to outplay you then something's clearly not working.

[zak_lcfc]

Yes we're playing badly, I know we haven't been beaten by a big score line yet but if teams feel they can win by the odd goal or two it doesn't say much for us, as soon as they take the lead shut up shop because we look devoid of ideas up front when teams are attacking us so stick everyone behind the ball and it negates what little attacking intent we have even more!

I can't compare us to other relegation zone teams from previous years because I only ever watched them on match of the day but after 16 games we're bottom for a reason, we're not playing good enough football because we haven't got the calibre of player to do so, teams know how to negate us and it makes it easy for them!

[coolhandfox]

Unfortunately the squad that NP has assembled over the last few seasons seems to have a problem with confidence when things go against them, this current run is similar to the run we went through after Xmas in the 2012 -13 season.  

 

A large part of that squad are still part of the current one, for me we lack leaders with big character and the will to win when the chips are down.

 

I still believe ability and quality wise we have a good enough squad, but do they have the character and belief in themselves to survive, I’m not so sure.

[shailen]

Unfortunately the squad that NP has assembled over the last few seasons seems to have a problem with confidence when things go against them, this current run is similar to the run we went through after Xmas in the 2012 -13 season.  

 

A large part of that squad are still part of the current one, for me we lack leaders with big character and the will to win when the chips are down.

 

I still believe ability and quality wise we have a good enough squad, but do they have the character and belief in themselves to survive, I’m not so sure.

 

I completely agree with this. But I reckon confidence will only return with a win. We need a scrappy win, doesn't matter how, whether it comes from an opposition own goal, or a debatable penalty, I don't care. Confidence will return when we win, and suddenly it will look like we got 11 leaders on the pitch. Look what it did at Burnley and Newcastle, and if we can do the same over Xmas with the number of games coming thick and fast we can really build some momentum. 

[Guest Col city fan]

I completely agree with this. But I reckon confidence will only return with a win. We need a scrappy win, doesn't matter how, whether it comes from an opposition own goal, or a debatable penalty, I don't care. Confidence will return when we win, and suddenly it will look like we got 11 leaders on the pitch. Look what it did at Burnley and Newcastle, and if we can do the same over Xmas with the number of games coming thick and fast we can really build some momentum.

Completely agree. Getting that win is crucial.

Good post.

[Swiss_tony]

If we're talking stats, pearson plays moneyball.

goals scored: 15 goals in  16 games = .9375 goals a game

goals conceded: 27 in 16 = 1.6875 goals per game

clean sheets: 2 out of 16 = 12.5 %

games where we haven't scored: 8 out of 16 = 50% !!!

shots for per game = 10.94

shots for on  target = 29% = 3 per game.

shots allowed per game 16.25

shots allowed on  target = 33.15% = 5.38 per game

 

these stats despite how you might think  we are playing tells the story of the season.