are we even playing badly?

[ScouseFox]

until maybe the liverpool game (being kind) we were playing very badly. look at the match ratings thread for example. 3s and 4s were nearly sneaking into the top 3 performances. we were cack. 

 

on saturday we were much better. 6s and 7s across the park probably, just not good enough to beat the champions (no bad thing). put in 6s and 7s like that against your west broms, hulls, burnleys and we'd have got more than 2 points since september. 

[Kitchandro]

Played well against Man City, I don't think you can say we played well in any of the other games post Man Utd.

We aren't playing badly but we are seemingly guaranteeing at least one major fvck up each game and it doesn't matter if you play well for 89 minutes that 1 minute we switch off costs us a goal and points.

This is the difference between this season and last, we aren't playing any worse but any mistake gets punished.

 

But we are, quite a lot worse in fact.

 

We deserve to be bottom.

[Fox Ulike]

The thing that's really irritating me with the run that we're on is the fact that I think we aren't even playing too bad. Many of the performances during our run have been good, and we have been in all the games but the Swansea away game where we looked poor. The thing that's letting us down is individual mistakes, and some of our defensive positioning at times. I don't think signing anyone will help us to a great deal as we are, rather the coaches at the club need to improve the way we defend and we should start to keep clean sheets. Also the manager needs to be a bit harsh on the players just to get them to be that little bit more cautious and aware. Nige seems to protect them far too much, and although I agree we aren't playing too badly, I'd rather him give them something to spur them on, privately or publicly.

 

 

There’s a difference between playing well, and playing effectively.

 

Yeah we’ve played well the last few games I guess. But we’ve just left ourselves wide open to opposition attacks and so have never really been in with a chance of winning any of those games.

 

I don’t agree that it’s just individual mistakes that have cost us. I think tactical mistakes just mean that we concede a goal almost every time we make a mistake.

 

If you watch any other lower Premiership team then those games are littered with individual mistakes too. The difference is that other teams are set up with defensive midfield players whose role is to “clean up” mistakes. We just haven’t played anyone in that role since Hammond was left out.

 

It’s fairly laughable how many goals we have conceded recently from giving the opposition a free shot, practically the centre of goal, less that 12 yards out. Gerrard and Lampard both scored from there. Hutton practically the same. 1 at QPR too. That’s 5 goals conceded and 3 points perhaps lost.  This is exactly the spot that a midfield anchorman would sit in if the team is defending.

 

Until we plug that gap, we’ll continue to play well, but will concede every time we make a mistake.

[Guest Col city fan]

Yes we are.

We are impotent up front, defensively naive and not tracking runs from midfield.

We are currently not good. And 2 points from 33 is a terrible, terrible return.

Im still with Pearson, but make no mistake, we look like a side which will be relegated.

[lcfcbobby]

were playing well against the good teams and poor against the lower league teams but the problem is we are conceding too many silly goals we cant defend against free kicks and corners and its putting us under so much pressure

[Captain...]

Yes we are.

We are impotent up front, defensively naive and not tracking runs from midfield.

We are currently not good. And 2 points from 33 is a terrible, terrible return.

Im still with Pearson, but make no mistake, we look like a side which will be relegated.

You say that like it is happening all game every game, it isn't. Man City barely had a sniff, other than that one massive lapse in concentration. You can say the same for Liverpool, Southampton, Newcastle, games.

[MC Prussian]

Yes we are.

We are impotent up front, defensively naive and not tracking runs from midfield.

We are currently not good. And 2 points from 33 is a terrible, terrible return.

Im still with Pearson, but make no mistake, we look like a side which will be relegated.

I can forgive the lack of firepower up front. We could've at least gotten three to five more points so far if it hadn't been for individual defensive errors and a lack of Premier League leadership within our back four.

As for your "not tracking runs" - surely you must put the blame on our full-backs mostly, because we did concede fewer goals coming through the middle than via the flanks.

[The Doctor]

Yes we are.

We are impotent up front, defensively naive and not tracking runs from midfield.

We are currently not good. And 2 points from 33 is a terrible, terrible return.

Im still with Pearson, but make no mistake, we look like a side which will be relegated.

 

only 4 goals from the centre all season against 23 (24 if we include cup games) from crosses/set-pieces suggests that midfield is not the problem. But don't let the facts get in the way of your desperation for a DM.

[Matt]

only 4 goals from the centre all season against 23 (24 if we include cup games) from crosses/set-pieces suggests that midfield is not the problem. But don't let the facts get in the way of your desperation for a DM.

 

They're not exactly creating much though, or perhaps should I rephrase that as no creating anything decent.

 

As for the crosses and set-pieces - How many of that have been quality, decent crosses and set pieces, I can emphasis enough how poor our set pieces are.

[The Doctor]

They're not exactly creating much though, or perhaps should I rephrase that as no creating anything decent.

 

As for the crosses and set-pieces - How many of that have been quality, decent crosses and set pieces, I can emphasis enough had poor our set pieces are.

 

I'm not sure on that - against QPR for instance, Cambiasso could have had a hat-trick of assists from Vardys one-v-ones alone. Still, defensively the midfield does its job. The problem is the wings/control of the box.

[MC Prussian]

They're not exactly creating much though, or perhaps should I rephrase that as no creating anything decent.

 

As for the crosses and set-pieces - How many of that have been quality, decent crosses and set pieces, I can emphasis enough how poor our set pieces are.

I think you've misunderstood the Doc - we're talking about goals conceded, not scored.

[Matt]

I think you've misunderstood the Doc - we're talking about goals conceded, not scored.

 

Ok, appologies.

 

However that's where just one of my main issues is regardless.

[Guest Col city fan]

I believe the problems are right across the field.

Wherever they come from, yes we are awful. 2 points from 33 ladies and gents.

Amazing that anyone can argue anything other. No hold on (looks at names above), it isn't......

[Russell sprout]

The fact that having lost 10 games with a goal difference of -12 shows that were losing by the odd goal in all but a couple of games,we are not playing all that bad,just lack the cutting edge needed,last season we could out score anyone but this season cannot buy a goal,I don't think any player has been terrible either.i think the koncheskys de leats etc are playing to there potential,but it's not the quality required in the premier league,and it's been individual errors that have cost us,if we could cut that out then we might start sneaking results than giving silly goals away.

[MC Prussian]

I believe the problems are right across the field.

Wherever they come from, yes we are awful. 2 points from 33 ladies and gents.

Amazing that anyone can argue anything other. No hold on (looks at names above), it isn't......

When you've got nothing to say, just say nothing at all.

 

Colin in "cheap shots at reasonable arguments" shocker.

[Guest Col city fan]

The fact that having lost 10 games with a goal difference of -12 shows that were losing by the odd goal in all but a couple of games,we are not playing all that bad,just lack the cutting edge needed,last season we could out score anyone but this season cannot buy a goal,I don't think any player has been terrible either.i think the koncheskys de leats etc are playing to there potential,but it's not the quality required in the premier league,and it's been individual errors that have cost us,if we could cut that out then we might start sneaking results than giving silly goals away.

Mate, I'm sticking with Nigel, but you are deluded. Any team is the sum of its individual parts. Chelsea and West Ham have been so good this season because they have signed some quality AND they have balance. They have pace, they have strength, they can defend as a team, they can attack as a team.. It's no coincidence that their individual players are making few individual errors. Rather than this crazy argument of 'coaching out individual mistakes', ask yourself why we are making mistakes. Why is a player like Wes Morgan (usually a rock, not prone to making daft errors), now making daft errors? Why is Liam Moore (near the start of the season being touted as one of the best young defenders in England) suddenly looking like a rabbit in headlights? There is a bigger picture. There always is. The bigger picture is the collective play of the team. Which has generally been very poor at this level. But yourself, and others will bang on about individual errors. Cos it's an easy argument.

2 points from a poss 33... Is actually pretty much indefensible.

[Guest Col city fan]

When you've got nothing to say, just say nothing at all.

Colin in "cheap shots at reasonable arguments" shocker.

You aren't making a reasonable argument. You are doing what you always do. Playing down just how bad we have been. So I'm not surprised at all. Don't you get bored of just petering out the same type of post? Genuinely? Even you must surely be looking at our stats, our position, and be thinking..Christ...?

Even you?

[MC Prussian]

Mate, I'm sticking with Nigel, but you are deluded. Any team is the sum of its individual parts. Chelsea and West Ham have been so good this season because they have signed some quality AND they have balance. They have pace, they have strength, they can defend as a team, they can attacking. It's no coincidence that their individual players are making few individual errors. Rather than this crazy argument of 'coaching out individual mistakes', ask yourself why we are making mistakes. Why is a player like Wes Morgan (usually a rock, not prone to making daft errors), now making daft errors? Why is Liam Moore (near the start of the season being touted as one of the best young defenders in England) suddenly looking like a rabbit in headlights? There is a bigger picture. There always is. The bigger picture is the collective play of the team. Which has generally been very poor at this level. But yourself, and others will bang on about individual errors. Cos it's an easy argument.

2 points from a poss 33... Is actually pretty much indefensible.

Which sane person/fan starts comparing a newly-promoted team like us to Chelsea or bringing up teams like them in an argument about the struggles of a newly-promoted team?

 

I mean, sorry, Col, but...

 

You do realize Chelsea haven't been relegated for 30 years? West Ham have been in the Premier League for 2 1/2 years straight.

They have a entirely sportive and financial basis to start from!

 

Why do footballers make mistakes? Because they're human.

With the right conditioning in the same environment over a period of time (usually a couple of months at least), footballers tend to cut down on their mistakes.

We are four months into our first Premier League season in ten years with mostly unproven PL players - why do you think we're making mistakes?

[Russell sprout]

Mate, I'm sticking with Nigel, but you are deluded. Any team is the sum of its individual parts. Chelsea and West Ham have been so good this season because they have signed some quality AND they have balance. They have pace, they have strength, they can defend as a team, they can attack as a team.. It's no coincidence that their individual players are making few individual errors. Rather than this crazy argument of 'coaching out individual mistakes', ask yourself why we are making mistakes. Why is a player like Wes Morgan (usually a rock, not prone to making daft errors), now making daft errors? Why is Liam Moore (near the start of the season being touted as one of the best young defenders in England) suddenly looking like a rabbit in headlights? There is a bigger picture. There always is. The bigger picture is the collective play of the team. Which has generally been very poor at this level. But yourself, and others will bang on about individual errors. Cos it's an easy argument.

2 points from a poss 33... Is actually pretty much indefensible.

Your sticking with Nigel,but I'm deluded?????

I'm lost,

I've never said anything bad about pearson,

And was making a point of saying its individual errors that seem to be the difference between a result and a defeat,

There was me thinking you of all people had something between your ears.

[Guest Col city fan]

Which sane person/fan starts comparing a newly-promoted team like us to Chelsea or bringing up teams like them in an argument about the struggles of a newly-promoted team?

I mean, sorry, Col, but...

You do realize Chelsea haven't been relegated for 30 years? West Ham have been in the Premier League for 2 1/2 years straight.

They have a entirely sportive and financial basis to start from!

Why do footballers make mistakes? Because they're human.

With the right conditioning in the same environment over a period of time (usually a couple of months at least), footballers tend to cut down on their mistakes.

We are four months into our first Premier League season in ten years with mostly unproven PL players - why do you think we're making mistakes?

This is going to end up circular again isn't it, and I'm sure I've explained myself already.

I expected us to learn, to start slowly, maybe to struggle, but to learn. To get better. To make fewer mistakes. There was a post recently, based on an article talking about how we weren't that bad and that we had to get used to the 'pace' of the division. The problem is, we are going backwards......we aren't adjusting to the pace of the Premiership (if this is the issue, as stated in that article). And we are making MORE individual errors. The past few games being a prime example. Regarding WHY....I've made my opinions clear. The defence is shaky because it's put under pressure. Having to defend so many crosses, so many free-kicks, so much pressure, the defence will crack. Errors will happen. West Ham have sorted this by signing some good players and having a game-plan. Essentially to solidify the midfield and to break quickly. That's not that they were that good. Last year they were pants pretty much. Only recently, fans have wanted Allardyce sacked. But this time round he's developed a game plan and signed the right players accordingly. We could have done that. But what is Pearson's game-plan? It's changed so much I don't think even he knows.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll come back with something else. Some other reason. And fair enough. The fact remains we started well, have gotten WORSE, not better and have amassed an appalling amount of points over the last 11 games.

You know and I know that that trend must be reversed, quickly.

[Guest Col city fan]

Your sticking with Nigel,but I'm deluded?????

I'm lost,

I've never said anything bad about pearson,

And was making a point of saying its individual errors that seem to be the difference between a result and a defeat,

There was me thinking you of all people had something between your ears.

Don't just look at individual errors. Look at why? Look at the bigger picture. You are deluded if you believe that they are the sole reason for our recent terrible run of form. I can't be clearer than that. If we don't improve as a team, in how we are playing and setting ourselves up, the individual errors will continue.

Don't fall into the trap of basing your whole argument on 'individual errors'. Examine WHY...

[Russell sprout]

This is going to end up circular again isn't it, and I'm sure I've explained myself already.

I expected us to learn, to start slowly, maybe to struggle, but to learn. To get better. To make fewer mistakes. There was a post recently, based on an article talking about how we weren't that bad and that we had to get used to the 'pace' of the division. The problem is, we are going backwards......we aren't adjusting to the pace of the Premiership (if this is the issue, as stated in that article). And we are making MORE individual errors. The past few games being a prime example. Regarding WHY....I've made my opinions clear. The defence is shaky because it's put under pressure. Having to defend so many crosses, so many free-kicks, so much pressure, the defence will crack. Errors will happen. West Ham have sorted this by signing some good players and having a game-plan. Essentially to solidify the midfield and to break quickly. That's not that they were that good. Last year they were pants pretty much. Only recently, fans have wanted Allardyce sacked. But this time round he's developed a game plan and signed the right players accordingly. We could have done that. But what is Pearson's game-plan? It's changed so much I don't think even he knows.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll come back with something else. Some other reason. And fair enough. The fact remains we started well, have gotten WORSE, not better and have amassed an appalling amount of points over the last 11 games.

You know and I know that that trend must be reversed, quickly.

So with how bad we are yet you still beleive in pearson(I do meself)

But this seems to contradict what you think about how we've not performed hence out league position which is that not the responsibility of the manager,agIn would like to highlight that my cup is half full and I'm fully behind us,just wanted to question some of your posts as like you said of me,your deluded

[Guest Col city fan]

So with how bad we are yet you still beleive in pearson(I do meself)

But this seems to contradict what you think about how we've not performed hence out league position which is that not the responsibility of the manager,agIn would like to highlight that my cup is half full and I'm fully behind us,just wanted to question some of your posts as like you said of me,your deluded

I usually like your posts bud. I can still be pro-Pearson whilst I'm saying we have been dreadful. I'm not scared of saying we have been dreadful. We have been collectively dreadful. But I still believe we can get better. Whether that is misplaced faith remains to be seen. So I stick with Pearson because I still believe he can make us better. The evidence may be to the contrary, but I still believe he can. When we start to look completely clueless and lose spirit, then it's probably time for a change. We ain't there yet.

[Russell sprout]

I usually like your posts bud. I can still be pro-Pearson whilst I'm saying we have been dreadful. I'm not scared of saying we have been dreadful. We have been collectively dreadful. But I still believe we can get better. Whether that is misplaced faith remains to be seen. So I stick with Pearson because I still believe he can make us better. The evidence may be to the contrary, but I still believe he can. When we start to look completely clueless and lose spirit, then it's probably time for a change. We ain't there yet.

but do you think pearson can do much more on terms of formation,line up etc because I think he's doing all he can with what he's got,the players just need a break,1-0 win smash and grab at West Ham on Saturday and we'll turn a corner imo,I just don't agree that were that bad on a week to week basis,were a goal a game away from points wise being in a better position that we are,our goal difference and results are evidence that were competing,and when you look back at liverpool,Aston villa,qpr of recent games,there my justification that it's been individual errors that are costing us,as the overall team effort is there.

[MC Prussian]

This is going to end up circular again isn't it, and I'm sure I've explained myself already.

I expected us to learn, to start slowly, maybe to struggle, but to learn. To get better. To make fewer mistakes. There was a post recently, based on an article talking about how we weren't that bad and that we had to get used to the 'pace' of the division. The problem is, we are going backwards......we aren't adjusting to the pace of the Premiership (if this is the issue, as stated in that article). And we are making MORE individual errors. The past few games being a prime example. Regarding WHY....I've made my opinions clear. The defence is shaky because it's put under pressure. Having to defend so many crosses, so many free-kicks, so much pressure, the defence will crack. Errors will happen. West Ham have sorted this by signing some good players and having a game-plan. Essentially to solidify the midfield and to break quickly. That's not that they were that good. Last year they were pants pretty much. Only recently, fans have wanted Allardyce sacked. But this time round he's developed a game plan and signed the right players accordingly. We could have done that. But what is Pearson's game-plan? It's changed so much I don't think even he knows.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll come back with something else. Some other reason. And fair enough. The fact remains we started well, have gotten WORSE, not better and have amassed an appalling amount of points over the last 11 games.

You know and I know that that trend must be reversed, quickly.

So, in essence, your dismay at our current situation stems from the fact that you think we haven't learnt quickly enough. Fair enough. But shit happens. Players are human. If things don't go according to your expectations, grow up. Stop throwing your toys out of the pram. We just happen to support a team who's lacking that one particular piece to make it competitive enough to fight for safety in this division. We're not far off other teams around us and trends can be reversed as quickly as they are started - that also applies to our current winless run.

 

You also finally admit that the majority of our problems are created through pressure applied on the flanks. Thank you! Please note that (apart from a few teams in Spain, Germany and Italy) our team is facing the world's crème de la crème as far as wingers are concerned. Of course, a De Laet or a Konchesky will have troubles coping with the speed and accuracy of some of the best wingers and their crosses - you could say, with some opposing teams, their wingers cost more than our entire team!

 

You also admit that West Ham had a dire last season and barely scraped through. What happened there is:

a) West Ham avoided relegation - the manager/club was thus able to attract more of the players of the desired calibre (not just thanks to the TV revenue)

b) Allardyce has been in the Premier League before, knows it inside out

c) West Ham are a London club with a lot of previous PL experience and a certain name to them (more attractive than Leicester; and no, Lamby can **** off with Charlton)

 

You're comparing our situation with (more) established Premier League sides. You can't do that. They're operating from a completely different basis to start with!

Chelsea have money, West Ham have money, Chelsea have a terrific manager (as much as some hate him, he's class), Allardyce's not a dumb cookie, either. Chelsea have a name, a pedigree, a magnet function, a rich owner like nobody else and they can build on previous successes in this league.

 

We can't compete with that. Because we're Leicester. What do we have to show for? We've been off the radar for ten years!

If you want to compare us to heavyweights like Chelsea, we'll need 30 years of our own in this division. That'd be a fair side-by-side.

 

The only logical consequence now, given the circumstances, is to let it all go and simply enjoy the ride.