Guest MattP Posted 15 December 2014 Posted 15 December 2014 You can see why other sports fans often call us lot thick. How many other fans of teams in any other sport would openly risk the future of a 100 year plus institution just to try and stay in the top division for a few more years. Look at the debts some clubs have from taking this course of action, has splurging in January ever actually worked for anyone?
tickler28 Posted 15 December 2014 Posted 15 December 2014 I'm thinking of three possibilities..... Darren Bent? Ravel Morrison? Tom Ince? Although unlikely Hull would sell to us
Soar Fox Posted 15 December 2014 Posted 15 December 2014 I'm thinking of three possibilities..... Darren Bent? Ravel Morrison? Tom Ince? Although unlikely Hull would sell to us What an awfully depressing list that is. Ravel Morrison really? I'd rather be relegated than that cvnt play for us.
Raj Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 You can see why other sports fans often call us lot thick. How many other fans of teams in any other sport would openly risk the future of a 100 year plus institution just to try and stay in the top division for a few more years. Look at the debts some clubs have from taking this course of action, has splurging in January ever actually worked for anyone? some kids obviously weren't born around last time we nearly folded and went into admin.Id rather still have a footy club in a few years than go all out staying in this league.
indierich06 Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 I don't see why it always has to be one extreme or another on here - what's wrong with us going out in January, making a few well thought-out, reasoned and shrewd purchases/loans? Why does it have to be 'spend nothing and stick with what we have' or 'break the bank'?
Babylon Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 I don't see why it always has to be one extreme or another on here - what's wrong with us going out in January, making a few well thought-out, reasoned and shrewd purchases/loans? Why does it have to be 'spend nothing and stick with what we have' or 'break the bank'? Who has said spend nothing?
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 We've got one "old bloke" doing perfectly fine in midfield. The other one's been out injured for quite a while and is only now looking like he's coming back. Who says that finishing first in the Championship automatically acts as some kind of magic magnet, with every talented player circling around our club like mosquitoes are attracted to light? We don't either have the financial resources of other (promoted) teams or the consortium doesn't want to spend beyond its means - which is a wise decision. Out of all the former Championship clubs trying to have a go a level above, we should know best what it's like dishing out exceptional transfer fees and above all, paying ludicrous wages to overrated players. It's like the last ten years never happened. MC - we are at loggerheads again! I should have been more specific. Yes Cambiasso is doing alright. The 'old bloke' was a comment made regarding Upson who has not seen the light of day since joining, and with the best will in the world, wasn't a signing I could understand at the time, as we have in Morgan and Was two experienced, but not the quickest CB's. I thought another slow one was not what we needed. The point that I am making is simply this. The crux of the financial viability of the club and its future aspirations to being a constant on the PL, hinge on swapping the £34m loss acheived last season in the Championship, with the £60m TV income (or whatever it is) this season which I would have thought must put them in the black? I stand to be corrected here, but it seems to me FFP under last seasons situation, in the long term, would make it very difficult indeed for us to buy or retain players good enough to get promoted AND stay there. At the moment, IN the PL those financial constraints are less because of our current income. Therefore surely now has to be the time to spend, if you are going to do it at all? I am not saying bankrupt the club, but despite shelling out fortunes so far, they owners have to gamble for their own sakes and ours, and dig deep again. They are CERTAIN to never get any return on investment or, if that's not what they are in for, joy back in the Championship.I repeat this spending however should have been undertaken in the Summer.
MC Prussian Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 MC - we are at loggerheads again! I should have been more specific. Yes Cambiasso is doing alright. The 'old bloke' was a comment made regarding Upson who has not seen the light of day since joining, and with the best will in the world, wasn't a signing I could understand at the time, as we have in Morgan and Was two experienced, but not the quickest CB's. I thought another slow one was not what we needed. The point that I am making is simply this. The crux of the financial viability of the club and its future aspirations to being a constant on the PL, hinge on swapping the £34m loss acheived last season in the Championship, with the £60m TV income (or whatever it is) this season which I would have thought must put them in the black? I stand to be corrected here, but it seems to me FFP under last seasons situation, in the long term, would make it very difficult indeed for us to buy or retain players good enough to get promoted AND stay there. At the moment, IN the PL those financial constraints are less because of our current income. Therefore surely now has to be the time to spend, if you are going to do it at all? I am not saying bankrupt the club, but despite shelling out fortunes so far, they owners have to gamble for their own sakes and ours, and dig deep again. They are CERTAIN to never get any return on investment or, if that's not what they are in for, joy back in the Championship. I repeat this spending however should have been undertaken in the Summer. The Upson signing has been an unfortunate one because of his injury. At this rate, we can only look forward to him turning out to be the asset many hoped he'd become. Also, CBs don't necessarily need to be quick as long as their positioning is top-notch. The club announced a loss of £34m as part of the 2012/2013 season, I hope people will finally get that piece right because many simply write "losses of last season" - which is misleading and not correct. This isn't just money spent in that particular season, but costs accumulated over a longer period of time (long-running obligations, such as wages and infrastructure running costs). All down to heavy and close to deadly investment, mostly down to the Eriksson era. Seeing that we are a PL club (for now), I can but assume the financial implications of FFP won't be as tough, even if we should get relegated again. Which means we should be able to continue building on a solid monetary basis starting next season - wherever that may be. The implications of FFP would hit us harder if we hadn't been promoted - there's fines and then there are heavy fines for breaching FFP. But that is all dependent on the new numbers from our previous (Championship) season.
Silverdaz Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 This. Enough fvcking around. You want to stay up then you have to buy quality and if you want to buy quality, then pay the fvcking money. If Nige wants Defoe, pay him £80k a week and watch the goals fly in. If anyone's nose gets put out of joint, fvck em. Our survival is whats important. Is survival really that important that we rock the boat and put the club in peril financially??
Babylon Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Is survival really that important that we rock the boat and put the club in peril financially?? Some people clearly don't care. I can only presume they are all maxed out on their credit cards.
Bettsj2 Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Is survival really that important that we rock the boat and put the club in peril financially?? Depends which way you look at it. We are currently a Premier League club. If you want to be a Premier League club and remain one for a long period of time, you eventually have to spend some big money and pay some big wages. If like Babylon, you arent fussed and are happy to yoyo back and forth between divisions, dont spend the money and dont pay the wages. If you favour one option over the other, it doesnt mean you dont care or have a different aim for the club (i'm sure we all want to be a stable Premier League club), just means that some want to take advantage of a great opportunity and some want to play it safe. I dont think you can play it safe forever. If we stay up this year, we have a real chance to consolidate our position. If we go down, that dream remains just that.
hackneyfox Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 If we haven't breached ffp for last season then we should be able to take an increased loss next season of £15m (due to parachute of 20m) without failing ffp should we get relegated. That's around an extra £288k a week on salaries, assuming all contracts have included smart cuts for relegation then we should be ok. As we have probably spent very little of this seasons TV money then the owners could pocket that and then give some of it to the club next season (how much can you give under ffp?) Makes sense to spend money now in an attempt to guarantee another £60m next season from TV rights.
hackneyfox Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Depends which way you look at it. We are currently a Premier League club. If you want to be a Premier League club and remain one for a long period of time, you eventually have to spend some big money and pay some big wages. If like Babylon, you arent fussed and are happy to yoyo back and forth between divisions, dont spend the money and dont pay the wages. If you favour one option over the other, it doesnt mean you dont care or have a different aim for the club (i'm sure we all want to be a stable Premier League club), just means that some want to take advantage of a great opportunity and some want to play it safe. I dont think you can play it safe forever. If we stay up this year, we have a real chance to consolidate our position. If we go down, that dream remains just that. Agreed
Guest MattP Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 I remember Portsmouth, Leeds and Bradford all deciding to heavily invest in the team to make sure they will be a Premier League team for some considerable time. If they didn't being in the Premier League would just become a dream.
Guest Col city fan Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Depends which way you look at it. We are currently a Premier League club. If you want to be a Premier League club and remain one for a long period of time, you eventually have to spend some big money and pay some big wages. If like Babylon, you arent fussed and are happy to yoyo back and forth between divisions, dont spend the money and dont pay the wages. If you favour one option over the other, it doesnt mean you dont care or have a different aim for the club (i'm sure we all want to be a stable Premier League club), just means that some want to take advantage of a great opportunity and some want to play it safe. I dont think you can play it safe forever. If we stay up this year, we have a real chance to consolidate our position. If we go down, that dream remains just that. I agree with this completely. What do people come in to football for, to play and to watch, if not to aspire to be the best you can be? Even the fans of lower league clubs (I assume?) would want to see their clubs get up the divisions. Spending in January is a gamble. But their are 80 odd million reasons to take that gamble surely? Staying up is surely what the owners want for the club? If that takes spending a sizeable sum (which most have agreed it would) then sobeit. If we don't, its looking likely we will get relegated if we continue in this vein and then we are, proverbially, back to square one. IF it looked like we could stay up WITHOUT spending on some real quality, then fine. Unfortunately, 2 points from 33, suggests this aint the case.
Guest MattP Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Are people being serious about Defoe btw? If you could guarantee the Defoe of 5 years ago I'd be tempted but we are talking about dragging someone from the retirement home here who is clearly miles past his best. 100k a week for a bloke who scored one goal in his last season in the EPL and only got 11 from 19 in the woeful MLS. (to put that into perspective Bradley Wright-Phillips got 27 in 32)
Guest Col city fan Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Are people being serious about Defoe btw? If you could guarantee the Defoe of 5 years ago I'd be tempted but we are talking about dragging someone from the retirement home here who is clearly miles past his best. 100k a week for a bloke who scored one goal in his last season in the EPL and only got 11 from 19 in the woeful MLS. (to put that into perspective Bradley Wright-Phillips got 27 in 32) Wouldn't touch him...
Guest MattP Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Wouldn't touch him... Same, I'll admit I've only watched him a couple of times in the MLS (both games I'd bet on ) but he looked quite past it even at a dreadful standard of football. Add to that anyone who runs away to the MLS when still in with a chance of playing in the World Cup clearly has an eye on retirement, he wouldn't give two shits if we stayed up or went down if he came here unless he had a huge bonus for the outcome of the former. If we are looking for a number 10 from the MLS Clint Dempsey might be worth a shout.
Guest Col city fan Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Same, I'll admit I've only watched him a couple of times in the MLS (both games I'd bet on ) but he looked quite past it even at a dreadful standard of football. Add to that anyone who runs away to the MLS when still in with a chance of playing in the World Cup clearly has an eye on retirement, he wouldn't give two shits if we stayed up or went down if he came here unless he had a huge bonus for the outcome of the former. If we are looking for a number 10 from the MLS Clint Dempsey might be worth a shout. Absolutely spot on. Im with you Mr P. Why on earth anyone would imagine Defoe to be some sort of saviour to our current plight is beyond me. I'd risk him at maybe 30k per week. 100k? You're having a giraffe....
Bettsj2 Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Wouldn't touch him... If it was a choice between £80k a week Defoe for free and £8m McGoldrick on god knows what, Defoe every time for me. Wouldn't touch him... If it was a choice between £80k a week Defoe for free and £8m McGoldrick on god knows what, Defoe every time for me.
Babylon Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 What do people come in to football for, to play and to watch, if not to aspire to be the best you can be? Even the fans of lower league clubs (I assume?) would want to see their clubs get up the divisions. Why are you making out that those who would rather not see their club go to the wall don't have aspirations? That has absolutely nothing to do with it, what I have are priorities. My main concern is for the long term health of this football club, I'm not prepared to chase some pipe dream at the risk of ending up like any number of the clubs who have spent a shit load chasing the dream (including us not that long ago). Nobody has said do not spend any money, what they have said is sensible spending. Not the ridiculous figures being chucked about on here (£85m fees and wages by some). That is just ludicrous and a one way ticket to financial meltdown.
lcfcbobby Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 spend money ....yes break the bank.....no we need to be sensible with who we bring in its pointless just spending money for the sake of it gotta get players good enough not just because they have experience or what ever.
Babylon Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Depends which way you look at it. We are currently a Premier League club. If you want to be a Premier League club and remain one for a long period of time, you eventually have to spend some big money and pay some big wages. If like Babylon, you arent fussed and are happy to yoyo back and forth between divisions, dont spend the money and dont pay the wages. If you favour one option over the other, it doesnt mean you dont care or have a different aim for the club (i'm sure we all want to be a stable Premier League club), just means that some want to take advantage of a great opportunity and some want to play it safe. I dont think you can play it safe forever. If we stay up this year, we have a real chance to consolidate our position. If we go down, that dream remains just that. Answer me this... do you think John Elsom ran this club well? Were you happy to go into administration as it meant we'd had a shot at playing with the big boys?
Bettsj2 Posted 16 December 2014 Posted 16 December 2014 Answer me this... do you think John Elsom ran this club well? Were you happy to go into administration as it meant we'd had a shot at playing with the big boys? Yes and no. Was he right to commit to the stadium? 100% yes. Was he right to invest in the squad? 100% yes. Was he right to hire and trust Peter Taylor with that investment? God no. A year before that appointment, O'Neill requested we sign Hartson for £5m but the board said no, instead only sanctioning the £2m for Gunnlauggson (or however you spell it). That was the time to back the manager. Its all about timing. I believe that time has come again.
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