Break the bank...yes or no?

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

If we are still rock bottom, and say eight points adrift, by January, I would tend to go for loan signings. With relegation we need to regroup and bring in some decent summer buys who would be likely to cut it in the Premiership. Not an easy job, and probably beyond Pearson's ability.

[Monsell1976]

I'd take 17th with double the wage bill.

If we dont do it now, when will we?

If it works, I would go for this, as if I remember right, isn't next seasons premier league silly money, even compared to now

[Bettsj2]

No idea, and to be honest it seems like clubs like QPR get away with it anyway so what's to lose.

The risk, especially when you're in 20th, is that it backfires completely. We've got to judge how likely we are to stay up and spend accordingly. I believe relegation wouldn't cripple us - but could do if we gambled and failed.

It's all whether we're willing to take a gamble. I'm just scared. Could you genuinely imagine Leicester spending millions and pulling off survival? It just never seems to work that way here. Money curses us I swear

There are no guarantees of anything so I can see why some would want to make sure we do it this season, and there's every chance we could go down and be stuck there for a few more years - but honestly, if we went down with Pearson, didn't lose any of our players (and the ones we lose would go for over the odds due to their contracts) and went into next season with a similar side, with parachute payments coming in, we should seriously be getting promoted.

The general consensus amongst fans is that we're only a couple of players short. If we bought 3 players in the window at say £10 - £15m each and paid them £60-£80k a week each, even if we got relegated, that wouldnt do us too much harm. However if we are only short by these 3 players and those games we really should get points from start turning to wins and we stay up, BOOMTING!

Its worth the risk surely?

[Bettsj2]

But would you be prepared to take 18th with double the wage bill and a massive financial problem.

I find it flabbergasting that fans of a club already taught a hard financial lesson are now suggesting we go down the same route again. Overspending when in the premier is what buggered this club up for the last decade.

Yes but we overspent on players that were never going to do the business. Akinbiyi, Benjamin, Wise, Marshall, Cresswell etc etc. if the money was spent wisely on proven quality, its surely worth the risk? Plus at that point we were building the new stadium so the financial implications of that were over our heads.

[Dan]

Average revenue for a championship club is 30m

Average revenue for a premiership club is 140m

According to the documentary on QPR when they were promoted.

Obviously parachute payments would count as an income so we wouldn't lose that much straight away but if we fail to get promotion for a few seasons we would be taking a lot less...

Hence why only spending about 15m under Sven on players, and having around double the wage bill that we did under Pearson the first time round = 100m loss over 2 seasons...

So to go from perm revenues to championship revenues would be stupid .. We would be in exactly the same situation as we were in the summer which is pointless. That's best case scenario if we rip the championship apart again...

 

And you think we'll be on average revenue do you? Take the two Manchester clubs + Chelsea out and I reckon the average is nearer to half of that.

 

We wouldn't be in the same situation, we'd be in a far better position. Costs may need cutting but we've got enough money coming in to cover our losses. I hate the mentality behind parachute payments, but they're there and they will help us should we be relegated.

Some people on here are still more bothered about how much a player costs rather than what they can actually do. How many of you would have Mills & Beckford over Morgan & Vardy?

But would you be prepared to take 18th with double the wage bill and a massive financial problem.

I find it flabbergasting that fans of a club already taught a hard financial lesson are now suggesting we go down the same route again. Overspending when in the premier is what buggered this club up for the last decade.

 

Correct. It's frustrating but we're constantly paying a penalty and seem happy to gamble again to get out of it. QPR mentality.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

We can spend a fair bit without jeopardising the future of the club, surely?

[Dan]

The general consensus amongst fans is that we're only a couple of players short. If we bought 3 players in the window at say £10 - £15m each and paid them £60-£80k a week each, even if we got relegated, that wouldnt do us too much harm. However if we are only short by these 3 players and those games we really should get points from start turning to wins and we stay up, BOOMTING!

Its worth the risk surely?

 

Sorry, spend £30mil + another £5mil (at least) on wages? If we went down after doing that, it would be catastrophic unless you're lucky enough to do what QPR did with Chris Samba - which still ended up seeing them relegated.

 

We will not spend near that. Not even close.

We can spend a fair bit without jeopardising the future of the club, surely?

 

Yeah, a bit, not ****ing thirty million.

[Bettsj2]

Sorry, spend £30mil + another £5mil (at least) on wages? If we went down after doing that, it would be catastrophic unless you're lucky enough to do what QPR did with Chris Samba - which still ended up seeing them relegated.

We will not spend near that. Not even close.

Yeah, a bit, not ****ing thirty million.

Spend it like there's no fvcking tomorrow.

[whoareyaaa]

Even if they gave Nigel millions to spend in January, who the hell is going to put their careers on the line by coming to the bottom club with nothing but championship players around you and a manager who is now proven not capable of managing at this level ?

 

Come on people it's not going to happen. Their agents get a bloody good living off the players backs what agent is going to tell his premiership standard player to come to us in our present situation ? NONE.

 

 

We have to accept that we are going down and that Pearson's gamble blew up in his face. Deep in our hearts we knew in the close season that the team was not good enough to stop up , it's a pity that the man who should have seen this coming did not see what most of us could see then.

 

All this talk about parachute payments as if it's some sort of get out of jail monopoly card is just nonsense. It made no difference to all those other cubs that went down did it ? how many bounced straight back up ?  

 

The whole club needs re structuring if the owners are serious about us being a Premiership outfit, and that starts with getting a manager capable of managing at this level and attracting the players good enough to do the job. They have to stop thinking small time and put their business knowledge and their money where their mouths are and do it starting now. 

 

Proven?!?! what after 16 Games amazing

[Babylon]

Yes but we overspent on players that were never going to do the business. Akinbiyi, Benjamin, Wise, Marshall, Cresswell etc etc. if the money was spent wisely on proven quality, its surely worth the risk? Plus at that point we were building the new stadium so the financial implications of that were over our heads.

There is no guarantee any signing would be any better. Plenty of expensive flops floating around this league and the championship. It is not work the risk.

Sensible investment that can be sustained, perhaps a little bit more if you don't mind flogging off a few players if the worst happens.

Too much and you end up in a fire sale desperately trying to get your finances in order. That would potentially cause massive long term problems.

[foxinsocks]

So being realistic - who would we go for (with proven prem experience)?.... I think Callum McManaman and Defoe might well come; but what about a holding midfielder or central defender?

[Babylon]

The general consensus amongst fans is that we're only a couple of players short. If we bought 3 players in the window at say £10 - £15m each and paid them £60-£80k a week each, even if we got relegated, that wouldnt do us too much harm. However if we are only short by these 3 players and those games we really should get points from start turning to wins and we stay up, BOOMTING!

Its worth the risk surely?

Wouldn't do much harm?

That's £60m over the course of a three year contract bottom end of your figures, £82.5m using the top on of your figures.

What do you propose we use to pay the rest of the club with?

[Babylon]

We can spend a fair bit without jeopardising the future of the club, surely?

Our last released books in the championship, we made a loss of £34m. People are wanting to spend ridiculous amounts now and seem to think that will be sustainable should we go down.

I can only presume there are a lot of people on here who don't have a grasp if finances.

[Babylon]

If it works, I would go for this, as if I remember right, isn't next seasons premier league silly money, even compared to now

I'd sell my house and spend it all on lottery tickets if someone could guarantee I won.

[Raj]

Im not UEFA licensed like some on here but surely under these FFP we can't just go out and spend £40 mill can we???

[foxinsocks]

I'd sell my house and spend it all on lottery tickets if someone could guarantee I won.

Even for sensible folk there is an opportunity to have excitement and fun from gambling - e.g. even if you wouldn't sell your house to buy 1000's of lottery tickets you might buy one or two  (- but you can' bet your house coz the downside would be catastrophic for you and yours).  Similarly, owning a football club is NOT a sensible financial investment ... yet some rich people choose to do it with a proportion of their wealth (they gain kudos and excitement).   IMO They would be foolish  to do it with more than say 10% of their net worth.  So - if making such a punt is within that "frivolous" allocation, then I would say investing to keep your team in the prem might be exciting. I would expect LCFC to spend between £20M and £30M - and add about £150k per week to wages bill - they might want performance related options to soften the blow if relegated.

[Bettsj2]

Wouldn't do much harm?

That's £60m over the course of a three year contract bottom end of your figures, £82.5m using the top on of your figures.

What do you propose we use to pay the rest of the club with?

Thats with the assumption that everything remains the same. Build in relegation clauses so the wages reduce and if you do end up going down, shape your squad accordingly using parachute payments and ensure you have the personel in place to get us back up (again the general consensus seems to be if we go down, we'll bounce straight back up again).

The being conservative and spending within your means etc is all well and good but the truth is the Prem is all about money and to stand any chance of staying/competing, you're going to have to pay the money, or just be a yoyo club forever.

I really dont want to go down.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

For me we need to spend.

Relegation seems to be an acceptable thing for fans on this forum, I'm sorry but after 10 years It's NOT acceptable for me. The uproar caused on here when we failed at watford was almost laughable, so to see people accepting that after the 10 years of failure we could drop back down to the lottery of the championship is ridiculous, if we went down without a whimper this year, low on confidence and not strung 3 wins together, why do people think it's a forgone conclusion we would bounce straight back up, and not get some of our better players snapped up? Why don't you ask the fans of all the clubs that went down and didn't come back up when expected to rinse the league? Leeds united, Cardiff, Fulham, Derby, Forest, Middlesborough, WOLVES, Bolton, Blackburn and more....

If we go down without a fight and accept it like it's all part of a master plan I'll seriously consider supporting someone else, This club is in my veins but my god we have some deluded fans. Relegation could spell absolute disaster.. AGAIN. and is an absolute LAST RESORT for me.

We need to bring in 5/6 players for me and spend whatever it takes to get them in, However we are in possibly the worst transfer situation.

- January is typically the worst market to work through with overpriced players with the buying clubs usually being slightly desperate to strengthen.

- Proven players at this level would be hard to attract, however they could be affordable, for example Yacob or mulumbu, These players are not likely to want to drop in wages if we get relegated, and will command a bigger wage fee.

- Younger players would be affordable with regard to wages, but their purchasing fee would be vastly overpriced.

- Not many players want to come down to the bottom of the table unless they are coming up from the championship.

Players I think we should/could go for who are realistically Affordable on wages and on transfer fee -

Box to box midfielder with alot of presence -

Mulumbu - Solid Midfielder out of contract in the summer, not the biggest wage and could be cheap.

Yacob - Solid Midfielder out of contract in the summer, not the biggest wage and could be cheap.

Diaby - On loan, Wenger has always rated him very highly, unfortunately his injuries could cause an issue, Would strengthen us no doubt, Loan only.

Flamini (Not alot of presence) but could be decent for us, Contract up in summer and likely to leave for nothing.

Left back -

Martin Olsson - Decent Left back who could step up to the premier league again, fast and knows his job.

Izaguirre (Celtic) Decent Left back and one of their best performers consistently.

Marcell Jansen - This would be a BIG move, probably too good for us? contract out in summer.

Centre back - Tall with a bit of speed

Curtis Davies - Cheap enough, Get him in, make him captain.

Winston Reid - West ham are finding a replacement to him in Nkoulou and he would be available for around 3m, Experienced, Big and strong.

Maya Yoshida - Very capable but out of favour at southampton. contract up in the summer.

Zouma (Loan) - probably wouldn't be able to get him though

Fabien Schar - 6 months left on his contract, But I suspect he would go to a top 6 club somewhere in europe (worth a try though)

Left Wing -

Bakary Sako - We know about him having been linked numerous times, could easily step up to the prem IMO and wouldnt be that expensive.

Campbell (arsenal) Loan deal could work although we may struggle to get him as we wont be his only option.

Scott sinclair - Quality at swansea as we know, Wont get into the city squad, Is he just taking a wage though happily (attitude problem?)

Osvaldo - Sao Paulo - Rapid, still young and good on the ball.

Striker -

Arouna Kone - Big, Strong, Fast, and can score if he gets injury free (Loan) - Martinez quick to snap him up, obviously rated when fit.

Defoe - We know about this guy, would have to battle with QPR

Pato - (attitude problem?) If got onto the straight and narrow could easily fire us to safety, We know he knows where the goal is, Wages would be an issue though (reportedly 90k at SP) worth mentioning but I am almost laughing at myself as I type it...

Some are probably a step too far for a club holding 19 teams above their head, but I couldn't really see an issue with the majority of them.

I agree that relegatiom seems be acceptable, but it could be a disaster. Why oh why where they f***ing around with old blokes on frees? That was the time to sign players - when we were on a crest of a wave and runaway winners of the Championship. Negotiating from a position of strength. It's nothing short of, not wishful thinking, but negligence. Why would you not strengthen the first eleven from last year when we are stepping up to arguably the most competitive league in the world?

It's completely idiotic. And, almost certainly too late to do anything about it.

I do hope I am wrong I must add.

[Babylon]

Thats with the assumption that everything remains the same. Build in relegation clauses so the wages reduce and if you do end up going down, shape your squad accordingly using parachute payments and ensure you have the personel in place to get us back up (again the general consensus seems to be if we go down, we'll bounce straight back up again).

The being conservative and spending within your means etc is all well and good but the truth is the Prem is all about money and to stand any chance of staying/competing, you're going to have to pay the money, or just be a yoyo club forever.

I really dont want to go down.

Yeah loads of players out there who want to join the bottom club knowing they face a 50/60k drop in wages if they go down.

Parachute payments would just about cover what we were spending before promotion. We were already losing money lets not forget that.

I'd rather yoyo than face losing my club again thank you very much.

[Babylon]

Even for sensible folk there is an opportunity to have excitement and fun from gambling - e.g. even if you wouldn't sell your house to buy 1000's of lottery tickets you might buy one or two (- but you can' bet your house coz the downside would be catastrophic for you and yours). Similarly, owning a football club is NOT a sensible financial investment ... yet some rich people choose to do it with a proportion of their wealth (they gain kudos and excitement). IMO They would be foolish to do it with more than say 10% of their net worth. So - if making such a punt is within that "frivolous" allocation, then I would say investing to keep your team in the prem might be exciting. I would expect LCFC to spend between £20M and £30M - and add about £150k per week to wages bill - they might want performance related options to soften the blow if relegated.

The point is people are talking like spending money = staying up. No down side at all, stick our fingers in our ears and pretend there is no danger of things going tits up.

Our owners have shown fairly clearly over the last two years that they take FFP and running the club sensibly very seriously. People seem to believe they are just going to throw money at it without a care in the world.

[MC Prussian]

I agree that relegatiom seems be acceptable, but it could be a disaster. Why oh why where they f***ing around with old blokes on frees? That was the time to sign players - when we were on a crest of a wave and runaway winners of the Championship. Negotiating from a position of strength. It's nothing short of, not wishful thinking, but negligence. Why would you not strengthen the first eleven from last year when we are stepping up to arguably the most competitive league in the world?

It's completely idiotic. And, almost certainly too late to do anything about it.

I do hope I am wrong I must add.

We've got one "old bloke" doing perfectly fine in midfield. The other one's been out injured for quite a while and is only now looking like he's coming back.

 

Who says that finishing first in the Championship automatically acts as some kind of magic magnet, with every talented player circling around our club like mosquitoes are attracted to light?

 

We don't either have the financial resources of other (promoted) teams or the consortium doesn't want to spend beyond its means - which is a wise decision.

Out of all the former Championship clubs trying to have a go a level above, we should know best what it's like dishing out exceptional transfer fees and above all, paying ludicrous wages to overrated players.

 

It's like the last ten years never happened.

[Bettsj2]

Yeah loads of players out there who want to join the bottom club knowing they face a 50/60k drop in wages if they go down.

Parachute payments would just about cover what we were spending before promotion. We were already losing money lets not forget that.

I'd rather yoyo than face losing my club again thank you very much.

No problem.

You stay groovy.

[foxinsocks]

Agree Baby - money may increase our chances (or not!) - it cannot guaranty success.  Hence a cautious affordable approach is wise... if they can afford it then they should look to see if investments offer value (hard in Jan) and if they truly think it will help improve the odds of staying up. Problem is - you can't hedge - i.e. spend a small bit more and yet still not stay up (penny wise pound foolish).  IT is a punt.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

Our last released books in the championship, we made a loss of £34m. People are wanting to spend ridiculous amounts now and seem to think that will be sustainable should we go down.

I can only presume there are a lot of people on here who don't have a grasp if finances.

**** me. If some of you think relegation is acceptable, then the £32m loss last season should send alarm bells ringing! Even multi millionaires don't have bottomless pockets, and even if they did FFP with massive losses = no money in our transfer kitty. THAT is why going down is a massive catastrophe for anyone hoping for our club to progress. This season has been an unmitigated disaster so far with sadly no end in sight. I say this taking on board, and appreciating a much improved performance from the lads on Saturday.

[Babylon]

**** me. If some of you think relegation is acceptable, then the £32m loss last season should send alarm bells ringing! Even multi millionaires don't have bottomless pockets, and even if they did FFP with massive losses = no money in our transfer kitty. THAT is why going down is a massive catastrophe for anyone hoping for our club to progress. This season has been an unmitigated disaster so far with sadly no end in sight. I say this taking on board, and appreciating a much improved performance from the lads on Saturday.

Relegation and promotion is part of football, sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. I might not like relegation but I can accept it. What I can't accept is some idiot playing Russian roulette with the club.

Going down as we are doesn't risk the club, parachute payments would I imagine cover the contracts of what we've currently got for the next four years with a bit to spare.

Some more sensible investment would probably be ok as well. But spending a ridiculous amount, and the sums being chucked about are ridiculous, most definitely would not be covered with any parachute payments.

The owners could now run this club sensibly for years without losing a penny. Your way they risk a lot.