cc_star Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 To those who are shocked by the owners decision to remove Sven following a kneejerk reaction to a solitary defeat Vs Millwall Stringer just tweeted ahead of his interview that it's been the fact he's only accrued 35 pts from a possible 81 is the reason. As I said in other threads when you remove the emotion of Sven being a nice guy crom the equation & look at the facts we've been locked in a manager induced paralysis of the team for a long long time as we shuffle 1 step forward, 1 step sideways & 1 step backwards on an eternal basis destined to be nothing more than the midtable as the mediocrity of our 1 good game in 3 deserves. I applaud the owners for not allowing their hearts to rule their heads & make a decision based on facts of simply being not good enough as we lie in effectively 14th. Yes we may only be a couple of points from playoffs but so is most of the league & they've not had the same level of investment that Sven has had at his disposal. Of course the Thai's tough decision will be for nothing if the next appointment isn't right, but as they've shown above they can make correct decisions, so hopefully it's onwards & upwards now that they've made the tough call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 I agree with your post. I also take into consideration that Sven failed to get us into the top 6 in his year and a bit at the club. There was many things wrong with Sven in my opinion. I came back from games constantly questioning his tactics and selection. He was far to negative for me, and also liked to change the team too much for me; look at last season when Vitor scored two against Scunthorpe and was then dropped. Obviously I don't like to see any manager be sacked, but, things lie deeper than "we're only two points away from the play-offs". 35 points from a possible 81 is not good enough either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbelladave Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 To those who are shocked by the owners decision to remove Sven following a kneejerk reaction to a solitary defeat Vs Millwall Stringer just tweeted ahead of his interview that it's been the fact he's only accrued 35 pts from a possible 81 is the reason. As I said in other threads when you remove the emotion of Sven being a nice guy crom the equation & look at the facts we've been locked in a manager induced paralysis of the team for a long long time as we shuffle 1 step forward, 1 step sideways & 1 step backwards on an eternal basis destined to be nothing more than the midtable as the mediocrity of our 1 good game in 3 deserves. I applaud the owners for not allowing their hearts to rule their heads & make a decision based on facts of simply being not good enough as we lie in effectively 14th. Yes we may only be a couple of points from playoffs but so is most of the league & they've not had the same level of investment that Sven has had at his disposal. Of course the Thai's tough decision will be for nothing if the next appointment isn't right, but as they've shown above they can make correct decisions, so hopefully it's onwards & upwards now that they've made the tough call. Terrific post, sums it up entirely...... I think there was a time when it would have been possible to make changes to the management structure by bringing in a first team coach that would have kept Sven on board but in a less 'hands on' role, something I have been advocating since around April. Personally I think this would have been an excellent solution as a young, dynamic manager could have been brought in to deal with the 1st team and matchday matters with Sven, the 'big name' manager with a brief to overview all things football and to keep as much pressure off the new man as possible. Maybe there were good reasons why this was not tried, maybe it was discussed, I don't know but there seems to have been a void in our management structure since the exit of Chris Powell that was never effectively filled. Still that said, I think the owners gave Sven plenty of time to at least show that he was on track for the kind of performances and results that were required but like some of us on here, I feel they could not see the kind of game on game improvements that were needed and so decided to make a change. They did this decisively and without mucking about and much as I would have liked to keep Sven on board, I applaud thim for their strength of conviction and determination. The new manager will have about 30 games, a very strong squad, decent position in the league and no doubt some financial support in January. A fantastic position to start from...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankieADZ Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 well put. A turn of logical thinking...not often shown nowdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Given the task to steer the ship around last season with a squad that wasn't his and by bringing in short-term loan deals and given the fact he wasn't given enough time this season to prove himself, your argument becomes very weak. Statistics only serve the ones using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 The 2 points of the play offs point annoys me. If anything that reinforces that we should be sitting higher up the table if we had not thrown points away needlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Given the task to steer the ship around last season with a squad that wasn't his and by bringing in short-term loan deals and given the fact he wasn't given enough time this season to prove himself, your argument becomes very weak. Statistics only serve the ones using them. Youre dead right about Stats - when I was doing my psychology degree there was a module almost devoted to how stats can be manipulated.. I remember having to read a fookin boring book called 'the myth of social statistics.... yawn However, even an ardent fan of Sven such as yourself was beginning to become disillusioned with Sven... perhaps the change will do us all good? Heres hoping anyway Keep the faith..an all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbelladave Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Given the task to steer the ship around last season with a squad that wasn't his and by bringing in short-term loan deals and given the fact he wasn't given enough time this season to prove himself, your argument becomes very weak. Statistics only serve the ones using them. Disagree entirely....... Sven arrived with the team at a very low ebb, he rejuvenated the team with a fair few new aquisitions and loans and the lift this gave was self evident, leading to a great run in January and February. As the season progressed he showed that he could not keep it going and once things started to go wrong he was not really able to make the changes neccessary to get us into the playoffs. But he was given the benefit of the doubt at this time and he was given substantial funds to build 'his' team during the summer and prepare them for the season. People would have understood a modest start to the season if they could see a plan, some sort of structure that suggested that a team capable of being promoted was in the making, but in reality there was none of that. The only thing consistent about our performances was a disjointed, ill discplined approach that, for the resources available was not good enough, even worse, there was absolutely no suggestion that this was improving. Something had to be done while the season was still savable and it was. I applaud the owners for their decisive action..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_y Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Yeah gone down city only to be dissappoimted, they put the prices up only to feel out of pocket, they are doing this for the fans, so we have to back the board on who ever comes in, personally I would not prefer Sven as he is so relaxed, so hopefully the board will get their man and go up the league. Love this post by the way. BLUE ARMY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Bloody hell... its still to-ing and fro-ing with anti-Sven/pro Sven stuff... Marbella, Fox 92 and others in the red corner... MC, Spherical and others in the blue corner...ding ding... He's gone! Top and the gang have made their decision... get over it and look to the future What we have to do is to give whatever new bloke we get in our full support... but hopefully not in the same, stick-in-the mud way so many on here have done with Sven... just analyse the performances honestly and with balance. As I said Monday... the King is dead, long live the king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Did anybody actually think it was because of one game though? (other than media and opposing fans) I saw people saying it was a bit soon, but I can't remember anyone saying it was JUST because of the Millwall game. I'm fairly sure people are well aware our results since he arrived have been a mixed bag. What this comes down to, is peoples individual interpretation of how long is enough time for a manager to get things right. Some people give them one game, Some people get on their back after a dozen (naming no names) some believe things take two year, where as many others sit somewhere in the middle. I noticed you on twitter seemingly calling anyone who seemed to believe it was too soon a "Sven-lover", I'm not quite sure why you need to label people like that. I'm no Sven lover, I've only ever asked that he be given what I consider an appropriate amount of time. He was very close to reaching that mark, which is why my recent posts have been a lot more critical of him, but for me it was a few games short. But I don't think it was knee jerk and I don't love Sven, and I'm sure most people fall into that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Did anybody actually think it was because of one game though? (other than media and opposing fans) I saw people saying it was a bit soon, but I can't remember anyone saying it was JUST because of the Millwall game. I'm fairly sure people are well aware our results since he arrived have been a mixed bag. What this comes down to, is peoples individual interpretation of how long is enough time for a manager to get things right. Some people give them one game, Some people get on their back after a dozen (naming no names) some believe things take two year, where as many others sit somewhere in the middle. I noticed you on twitter seemingly calling anyone who seemed to believe it was too soon a "Sven-lover", I'm not quite sure why you need to label people like that. I'm no Sven lover, I've only ever asked that he be given what I consider an appropriate amount of time. He was very close to reaching that mark, which is why my recent posts have been a lot more critical of him, but for me it was a few games short. But I don't think it was knee jerk and I don't love Sven, and I'm sure most people fall into that category. Super post, I agree entirely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannythefox Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 I agree but people will still have there eyes painted on I'm afraid being a nice man doesnt win you matches 10m = 43% win rate not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzFox Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Did anybody actually think it was because of one game though? (other than media and opposing fans) I saw people saying it was a bit soon, but I can't remember anyone saying it was JUST because of the Millwall game. I'm fairly sure people are well aware our results since he arrived have been a mixed bag. What this comes down to, is peoples individual interpretation of how long is enough time for a manager to get things right. Some people give them one game, Some people get on their back after a dozen (naming no names) some believe things take two year, where as many others sit somewhere in the middle. I noticed you on twitter seemingly calling anyone who seemed to believe it was too soon a "Sven-lover", I'm not quite sure why you need to label people like that. I'm no Sven lover, I've only ever asked that he be given what I consider an appropriate amount of time. He was very close to reaching that mark, which is why my recent posts have been a lot more critical of him, but for me it was a few games short. But I don't think it was knee jerk and I don't love Sven, and I'm sure most people fall into that category. I'm in that category. Neither here nor there, middle of the road etc etc The stats don't look good, but when you take into account that he's managed virtually two different teams.... Sven had us playing some sublime, attack minded football last season (how many times did we score 4 at home?) and yet recently we've looked ponderous and dull. It's all a bit weird really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbelladave Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Did anybody actually think it was because of one game though? (other than media and opposing fans) I saw people saying it was a bit soon, but I can't remember anyone saying it was JUST because of the Millwall game. I'm fairly sure people are well aware our results since he arrived have been a mixed bag. What this comes down to, is peoples individual interpretation of how long is enough time for a manager to get things right. Some people give them one game, Some people get on their back after a dozen (naming no names) some believe things take two year, where as many others sit somewhere in the middle. I noticed you on twitter seemingly calling anyone who seemed to believe it was too soon a "Sven-lover", I'm not quite sure why you need to label people like that. I'm no Sven lover, I've only ever asked that he be given what I consider an appropriate amount of time. He was very close to reaching that mark, which is why my recent posts have been a lot more critical of him, but for me it was a few games short. But I don't think it was knee jerk and I don't love Sven, and I'm sure most people fall into that category. Not quite...... The problem was not the results, it was not entirely about the performances either. It was about the lack of progress, the fact that after 13 games we are still every bit as disjointed and disorganised as we were way back at the beginning of August at the Ricoh...... Sure there have been a few occassions when we have actually looked quite decent, but since these were brought about by two or three of our better players stepping up and making a real impact, for a short while at least, there was absolutely no consistency or any suggestion that this good play could be carried forward into the next game. No progress, no organisation, no consistency, that's why Sven got the sack....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Not quite...... The problem was not the results, it was not entirely about the performances either. It was about the lack of progress, the fact that after 13 games we are still every bit as disjointed and disorganised as we were way back at the beginning of August at the Ricoh...... Sure there have been a few occassions when we have actually looked quite decent, but since these were brought about by two or three of our better players stepping up and making a real impact, for a short while at least, there was absolutely no consistency or any suggestion that this good play could be carried forward into the next game. No progress, no organisation, no consistency, that's why Sven got the sack....... What do you mean not quite, there is no not quite about it. I don't know what anything in your post has got to do with the one you're replying to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian the fox Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 If anyone is old enough to remember Brian Little , he built a defence out of free transfers in this league , that could defend better & harder that any of Svens recruits Poole (free) Fitzpatrick £50k , Walsh (resident legend ) Whitlow ( 100,000 ? ) Hill ( 200k ? ) Plateplauer ( free ) Sven has spent a fortune & fogot the golden rule .......... stop the ball going in your own net first ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electricity Sports 1960 Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Great, considered post. You should be a journalist, maybe you are? The local press & radio build up false hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Not quite...... The problem was not the results, it was not entirely about the performances either. It was about the lack of progress, the fact that after 13 games we are still every bit as disjointed and disorganised as we were way back at the beginning of August at the Ricoh...... Sure there have been a few occassions when we have actually looked quite decent, but since these were brought about by two or three of our better players stepping up and making a real impact, for a short while at least, there was absolutely no consistency or any suggestion that this good play could be carried forward into the next game. No progress, no organisation, no consistency, that's why Sven got the sack....... Well, there you go again. How do you define "progress"? How much time would you give a manager who's just signed a plethora of new players just before or at the start of a new season? How do you think a manager can achieve mid-term to long-term success if he isn't given enough time to prove himself? We had a little pattern developing with keeping clean sheets and winning games (or at least, not losing them). Suddenly, we've hit a rough patch and it's Sven OUT! again. Really, is it just Leicester or have football fans in general lost every bit of their own patience and common sense? It's this instant gratification mentality that really starts to grind my gears because more and more football fans are falling for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accessory Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 I'm no Sven lover, I've only ever asked that he be given what I consider an appropriate amount of time.He was very close to reaching that mark, which is why my recent posts have been a lot more critical of him, but for me it was a few games short. But I don't think it was knee jerk and I don't love Sven, and I'm sure most people fall into that category. But you're not the one covering the losses that have been run up by the club during the last 13 months and beyond. Clearly, for the reasons stated in the original post, Vichai, Top and co concluded that Sven was no longer the man who could ensure that such losses would be recouped. The pro-Sven brigade squeal about the distance from the play offs being a mere two points. But of more significance (certainly as far as the owners were concerned) is the fact that no fewer than SEVEN clubs (which will become eight if Brum beat Leeds tonight) stand between us and a place in the top six. To put our start this season into real perspective, five years ago when Rob Kelly was in charge and had NO transfer budget whatsoever, we sat in 14th place after 13 games. The following year, we were also 14th after 13 games, despite the upheaval of having lost two managers by then. We therefore had the right to expect far better this time around. But as others have observed, it wasn't just the disappointing recent results that were a factor - it was the sense that this manager, with the group of players which he assembled, were actually going backwards. The owners have made a big call in making this change. Time will tell as to whether it leads to an improvement in fortunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 But you're not the one covering the losses that have been run up by the club during the last 13 months and beyond. Clearly, for the reasons stated in the original post, Vichai, Top and co concluded that Sven was no longer the man who could ensure that such losses would be recouped. The pro-Sven brigade squeal about the distance from the play offs being a mere two points. But of more significance (certainly as far as the owners were concerned) is the fact that no fewer than SEVEN clubs (which will become eight if Brum beat Leeds tonight) stand between us and a place in the top six. To put our start this season into real perspective, five years ago when Rob Kelly was in charge and had NO transfer budget whatsoever, we sat in 14th place after 13 games. The following year, we were also 14th after 13 games, despite the upheaval of having lost two managers by then. We therefore had the right to expect far better this time around. But as others have observed, it wasn't just the disappointing recent results that were a factor - it was the sense that this manager, with the group of players which he assembled, were actually going backwards. The owners have made a big call in making this change. Time will tell as to whether it leads to an improvement in fortunes. None of which (once again) really has much to do with anything in my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbelladave Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 What do you mean not quite, there is no not quite about it. I don't know what anything in your post has got to do with the one you're replying to. Just pointing out that it is often pretty obvious which way a team is going before we actually get there...... You do not have to wait until you are up to your neck in the shit to realise that you are in trouble, ankle deep and unable to do anything about it is enough for me...... Well, there you go again. How do you define "progress"? How much time would you give a manager who's just signed a plethora of new players just before or at the start of a new season? How do you think a manager can achieve mid-term to long-term success if he isn't given enough time to prove himself? We had a little pattern developing with keeping clean sheets and winning games (or at least, not losing them). Suddenly, we've hit a rough patch and it's Sven OUT! again. Really, is it just Leicester or have football fans in general lost every bit of their own patience and common sense? It's this instant gratification mentality that really starts to grind my gears because more and more football fans are falling for it. I define progress (in this instance) as a general improvement in our team performance match on match. Sure there will be setbacks but the overall trend should be upwards. This season I have seen no evidence of this whatsoever. The pattern you have seen has nothing to do with improvements in our teamplay and everything to do with Mills shaking off his poor early season form and becoming the player we all expected him to be. In my view SSL is a perfectly decent defender, more than capable of playing his part in a properly organised defence, but the chaos displayed against a mundane Millwall attack shows, to me at least, the total lack of organisation that was masked by a handful of dominating performances from our captain. Your comments on 'patience' and 'instant gratification' are well wide of the mark, to me it is simply about identfying when you are in trouble and dealing with it before it becomes a real catastrophy. Though sad to see Sven go I think the owners got this spot on, I know you do not agree but I think Sven was given ample time to show that the team was moving forward but recent performances suggest strongly that it was not. I could easily live with our results this season if I could see us building something that would take us to the next (promotion) level but I can not, not one bit. Point of order; I have never asked for Sven to be sacked, ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 Just pointing out that it is often pretty obvious which way a team is going before we actually get there...... You do not have to wait until you are up to your neck in the shit to realise that you are in trouble, ankle deep and unable to do anything about it is enough for me...... I've never said anything different,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbelladave Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 He was very close to reaching that mark, which is why my recent posts have been a lot more critical of him, but for me it was a few games short. But I don't think it was knee jerk and I don't love Sven, and I'm sure most people fall into that category. I interpreted that paragraph as meaning that you thought, despite you increased level of criticism, that he should have been given more time.... Just making the point of why I thought he had been given enough time...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxjack Posted 26 October 2011 Share Posted 26 October 2011 I was one of those feeling maybe this wasn't the right decision, but looking at the hard cold facts you are absolutely right. As you also say though, the decision still hangs on who they now appoint to the role! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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