foxfan92

Over Skipp and Soumare in midfield? My 2 year old son.... let's get him registered to play.

I'd just like to say for the record, I wasn't being serious....

Potential to reposition Richardo more centrally??? I'm not someone who's been suggesting this as a good idea, but he's got to be a better option in the middle than Skipp.

As long as we keep playing Skipp and Soumare as a central pair we'll all be happy!

This is true, and I'd even go as far as to argue Faes, in spite of his many many faults and moments of madness in games, is still our strongest defender, which shows how bad the rest are. However we won't be getting in better until we clear the ones we have, and that's especially true with the higher earners, we need to get them off our books. So if we have to weaken to ultimately improve it may be a necessary evil right now, even if we seem thin in some areas.

Exactly right, but I was hoping that we'd try to keep Bilal and Fatawu at all costs (assuming they don't engineer their own way out), and I've seen little evidence that they've downed tools (last game being a joint disappointment (Monga being the exception). I was also hoping even if we've no money to sign players to improve the squad we'd be linked with a few exciting loans that would improve us, particularly in the central areas, whether that's a midfield, striker possibly a defender...

And Leicester are planning for the rest of the season fielding Dorris the tea lady in ... never mind, I'm just hearing reports in that Everton are in for her. That leaves the club with just the kit boy who signed a new five year contract at 100K per shirt washed, and Soumare, Faes and Vestergaard, the latter 3 in less demand than Dorris, with Winks refusing to even turn up to the training ground... Its believed the club are in talks to sign Vestergaard's dog on a free. They saw him last season when he turned up to training more often than Pereira did.

You think there is even a plan?

Even that would be an improvement over last season when we didn't so much battle relegation as accept it fairly early on, and down tools. Sadly we've too many of those players who didn't fight last season still here this season, so, while I'm not worried about relegation, (yet), I do think we'll vastly underperform.

Yeah I get that. I just wondered if that blue moon was out so we could see him boss 3/4 of a game then get substituted and take another 6 months off, so us fans can bemoan none of our other full backs come close to how good he'd be if he was ever fit ...

Anyone know how likely Ricky is to be fit for this game? I keep seeing him in people's squad and I think I read he's back in training before the Preston game. Is he expected back or are people just hopeful?

Were almost there. We manage to pick 11 player who look **** (with the exception of when Monga is on the pitch).

I think we're agreeing just wording it differently. It is very worrying we're having to rely on players who don't want to be here and aren't that good. But I don't think we'll improve throwing Page and Alves straight in either. Youngsters learn off the older heads around them. They're there in the first place because they have the skill, and aptitude to succeed. What they lack is experience and while that's gained by time on the pitch, there's more to the game than simply learning through playing it. Older players on the pitch should bring a level of emotional intelligence and psychological resilience that cannot be replicated purely by physical ability or raw talent. They have an instinctual understanding of the flow of a match — not just tactically but emotionally. By playing only younger players we run the risk of being outsmarted in reading the game week in week out and our younger players will look awful because of the confidence that gets sapped losing this battle on the pitch. It can't be replicated easily by coaching off the pitch or reflecting after every game with a manager, they need these older players around them as they play, so it becomes instinctive to them too. There is also the mental fatigue (that comes along with the physical demands) of playing full games and having to be in the right place at the right time every second of the match, which should be something young players are introduced to slowly to build up their resistance. Would I want the players the youngsters learn from to be the current crop we have right now? Absolutely not. But would I want to ruin their development throwing them in too early either? Not a chance. This is why younger players go on loan. Its a learning curve and requires mentors on the pitch and allows for a slower integration at this level. Winks, for all his faults, seems to be the best of the current midfield options we have. That is a very worrying thing to admit. And it shows how far we've fallen as a club. Its up to the manager to get a tune out of him and as many of the other useless players we have left, but that won't happen over night, and certainly won't happen by isolating the more experienced players and not giving them game time to improve either. Even if our youngsters could cope with being thrown straight in, if we got rid of all the rubbish (which I agree, while here does add to a more toxic environment), with no money to replace them, we'd go from an over bloated squad to one where we can't field a team. Its not Cifuentes fault he's forced to include these players, but I will agree there are some that need to be dropped from the starting 11, (like Soumare), and hopefully we see younger, hungrier players coming in to the team to replace these, and without money to buy anymore else, I think its inevitable that during the course of the season a lot of these younger players will slowly be given their chance to shine.

Agree, but while I'm defending our manager on here, he does need to quickly work out a starting 11 that will play with some conviction and get them fired up so we play some football the fans can get behind, and quickly. It doesn't have to be our best 11 on paper, but those who'd look like they give a damn (so not Soumare), even if that means getting slightly creative with where players play.

Like you I really want our youth to succeed but I do think you're over estimating how good they'd be thrown straight in to a full season. We need some experienced players to step up to help guide our youth through and protect them so they can flourish without unnecessary pressure which could stifle their development. The three players you've singled out, they performed better 2 seasons ago under the system Enzo deployed. I won't defend them, I'm cross with not just their attitude but a number of our players who should be better, but the managers we had last season need to take some responsibility because of the number of players who's attitude stinks. This should be something they should have stopped. It is better to be without disruptive figures who aren't putting the club first. However I'd also argue those three are still playing better than far too many of our other players, and so Cifuentes risks being damned if he plays them and damned if he doesn't. (We should never have signed Vestergaard in the first place, but we're where we are and his passing could possibly be utilised (it's not great but not terrible). It's a sorry state, but the manager has inherited this mess not created it. I'd argue we've not made any good permanent signings that add to our squad in 18 months or so, with the exception of making Fatawa's move permanent (but this doesn't improve the team we had in the championship last time, merely keeps it with the same personnel, and Bilal. We've lost everyone else who was any good, and replaced them with crap we can't shift. And if we rush the youth in and that backfires, where do we go from there? (Also I'd be interested in who you'd have in the midfield if we did get rid of Winks and weren't able to replace him, remembering we'd be short there for the season?)

I'm not going to defend every decision Cifuentes as making, because I don't agree with everything myself, but I do think you've been extremely critical of him from the first game (which we won), argued he should be playing the academy players (which we then did in the cup game and it turns out they didn't look as good as we hope they are, losing (albeit on penalties) to a team in the league below us). Now I'll admit he made changes, but some of those were to add even more youth, like Paige, and I'd argue the youngsters played worse than we did in the first game, and so if he'd done as you wanted we probably would have lost to Wednesday too. There's a lot wrong with the club right now. And it's okay to feel angry. There's players like Soumare who I hope have exhausted all their chances for now (although I'm struggling to see a good central midfield we can put out (although Soumare and Skipp still shouldn't be in that). Our defence isn't great, but it's the creativity from the centre of the park, the urgency, the engine that's lacking the most (plus a natural striker). The lack of striker is therefore another major problem and not one easily fixed. Evan is an unknown no matter how much we might hope and that leaves us with Ayew and Daka. Our incomings have literally been a 38 year old backup keeper and an 18 year old, who might be a start of the future(assuming he stays here long enough) but won't help us now. The guy came in a few weeks before the start of the season. Players won't unlearn a season of Cooper and Ruud football and relearn the new way and be fluid and confident enough with it to win a game of fine margins in such a short space of time. And while we've seen how bad these players are all last season (and before that for a lot of them) Cifuentes has to give everyone a clean slate, because some players naturally excel in different systems. Yes we need to start winning again, right away, to stand a chance of promotion, particularly with points being docked hanging over us, but we can't write the guy off before he's properly had a chance to show what he can do. I remember (even if most on here have forgotten, the abuse Pearson got for months and months, particularly when we couldn't buy a win in our journey back to promotion before we went up, and everyone was questioning him, or even when we went up and he refused to play Albrighton for ages for reasons no one could work out. There's a certain Scotish manager who was being booed by fans because Man Utd were awful when he first took over. And look how that panned out. Now I'm not saying it'll work, he may not be the right man for the job. But let's support him until proven otherwise and give him a proper chance. There's a lot worse at the club that has had too many chances and should be gone long before Cifuentes goes.

I'm sure the odd exceptions will ...

Sell the midfield and play hoofball

I thought the guy we signed last week was a 38 year old goalkeeper on a free transfer, called Asmir Begovic....? I mean I guess at 38 he could be a Vardy replacement...

So Everton, who've had their issues with PSR, sell their women's team (back to themselves), and suddenly having put the sale in their books they have all this money to spend? I know they've had a few bigger wage earners leave but they've almost all been on frees as their contracts run out. Why couldn't we do something similar years ago (like Chelsea did) and avoid our own PSR issues and give us money to spend. If we'd done it back when Rodgers was spitting his dummy out we might have avoided the drop the first time and never have gone down... I'm sure someone will point out why I'm asking a stupid question but genuinely wondering. We have our own women's team, and while KP might have had its own financial issues, I'm sure we could have done our own creative accounting to have generated some of this income other clubs are finding. While it may not have solved our problems with regard to high wages and players we're stuck with and can't shift, staying in the Premier League will have given us more income and given us time to sort our own mess out (maybe).

Wednesday is surely a good time to test some of these players, because irrespective of our own hopes and beliefs in these players coming through (and I'm someone who really hopes these players prove themseleves) we've got to accept they are young, inexperienced at this level (for the most part) and a huge risk to throw them all in together straight away. If Cifuentes had played them and we'd lost yesterday people would be angry at him ignoring more senior players and rushing the youth before they're ready. It's a balancing act, and we've a lot of games to play to give these players the chances they deserve.

I'm hoping Wednesday is a chance for some of our younger up and comings to show what they can do.

First game, he'll have time to learn the best 11 and how to use them, the window isn't over so may not even be possible to field the best team come September. As others have said was nice to see he's not afraid to use all his subs. Hopefully won't take too long for things to click and we seem more comfortable in games.

Winks over Soumare and Skipp.

We never make anything easy. But the result is the most important thing.