Iwebema

Decent half, can't really fault it. Said that at halftime against palace, please don't miss manage this one

Scandalous he didn't start against Everton. Gutted he's only on loan, going to be some player.

Interesting.... I don't work in the game, but as you've mentioned it (from far more connected sources than me) a family member of mine is involved in the youth set up at forest, and players at that level obviously know eachother in different clubs and I had heard very similar things to your last point (can't speak to the transfers and signings bit) they'd mentioned they had been hearing its all a bit lower league and the players at this level are used to meticulous game planning and approaches which just isnt happening. The general feedback was they like him and want to work hard for him but he just doesn't really know what he's doing at this level, he'd be more suited to a Luton style approach, unexpected promotion lower level of player playing above themselves. Please take it with a pinch of salt as I can't say its true for sure, but I thought as you shared I would aswell.

Unfortunately alot of fans don't go into the details of what they are watching, and their opinion is just based on vibes, gut feel and tired out of date football platitudes. Of course everyone is absolutely welcome to their opinion, but its always nice when it can be backed up with something more than that. As has been shown, no matter what data or analytics you focus on, we have been shocking for about 80% of every game, that data undeniably backs that up let alone just using your eyes, he is 100% getting away with it (insert meme "he can't keep getting away with this") He will need to fundamentally 180 alot of things on Saturday, or it is just a matter of time before he goes to be honest regardless. I still hold blind hope he will make changes, he must have some kind of analytics team advising him of all the things that have been shared on here, he seems like a grounded guy so surely he would even listen to that feedback, we aren't dealing with an egomaniac, but I think the biggest argument to be pessimistic about change is it's a continuation of what he did at forest but he doesn't have the home fans in a place to carry the team through games which is a large part of his system.

It's difficult to say, I thought enzo was great, not without his mistakes but it was his first proper job if you discount parma. I shared the same concerns as everyone else about style in the prem, but I also think we would of seen quite a different transfer policy if he had stayed so it would of largely come down to did we bring in players that suited him. We will never know unfortunately, and he is showing how good his football can be with a standard of player.

Hold on, are you trying to tell me that in competitive sport you should always be pushing to be better and not just accept your lot and be content with being mediocre at best? Not sure that's going to catch on, sounds bloody ridiculous if you ask me.

As much as I don't rate Cooper, he's miles better than Martin, can't stand the bloke, comes across as a chancer, thought they were really lucky to get promoted and so its proved.

What do you know....👀🤪

The difference here is, when delap made it 2-2, Cooper would of sat back, gone extremely cautious and invited wave after wave of pressure. Ipswich did the opposite and carried on offering something and could of won it at the end. Now it finished 2-2, but the later approach will yield you more points over the season than the former. Hopefully hes taking notes that going for it a bit when the score is level doesnt mean you will lose, hey you might even win!

Thanks @StriderHiryu as always it's a great piece of work. I hope people who are staunchly give him time based on basically nothing take the time to read this and previous breakdowns, and realise in order for this to work he needs to make some quite fundamental changes, we aren't just randomly going to start getting wins carrying on the way we are. It's just foolish to believe what he is doing is just a small tweak away from working. However, I continue to hope hope he randomly realises this next week and starts to make the changes...I won't hold my breath though!

No worries, I do prefer sensible debate about stuff like this, but sometimes you can't help but get caught up in the slanging of a forum! I'm sure I am no saint either! I think where I am at is that pretty conservative approach, I believe to just be who he is as a manager, and I just don't see anything that will say he will change, and I freely admit I have last days of Rodgers PTSD, fell out with some close friends of mine over that debacle! To be clear if he does change I will be delighted and happily eat humble pie...because the success of the club is more important than point scoring on a forum...I think 🤪

Aren't you the one who called everyone who didn't agree with you a ****? 🤪 I dont work with in the game, but the person I referred to when challenged to explain the case for why we shouldn't be critical of him just said you aren't a real fan and we don't want you 🤷‍♀️ There are many tactical and analytical outlets today that mean you can inform yourself today which I try and do....we even have one outlet in here who kindly breaks down every game for us to be informed. And so far the give him time crowd are yet to be able to explain their argument with anything other than just believe! Or apparently swearing at others 👍 i am all for hearing the other side of the argument I just haven't seen anyone make the case yet, because above all else I just want us to do well! Analytically, tactically, or just using your eyes, it isn't working so far, there are so many red flags I have lost count, we are essentially hoping he changes how he manages despite years of evidence he isn't going to do that. No one expected us to win yesterday it was all about the performance, which was absolutely terrible, we approached the game like we were Grimsby, and the real problem here is its not an isolated incident, sure we got back to 2-2 but if you take the hyperbole away from it and analyse it which I know the "believe harder and clap louder" crowd absolutely loathe to do, it was a combination of pure luck, which we will need alot of for sure and a brilliant goal keeping performance keeping us within touching distance, but it's another example of us out performing what is happening on the pitch, which just won't continue, so we are already at peak with him with no wins based ok how he continues to set up and manage a game. One thing I have said in his favour is I'm not 100% sure I buy the players hate him, I actually think they are working hard for him which does offer some hope! But it will take more than that which is not showing up. IF he changes his approach, sets us up like we aren't a league two side, changes the double pivot, finds ways to exploit the oppositions obvious weaknesses and manages a full 90 minutes with good subs then yep I'm all in for the cooper experience, but let's be clear so far none of that has happened and his track record suggests it won't.

I wouldnt bother, they simply don't understand football, just happy to be part of it. Wasted energy.

@Muzzy_no7 one more time 🤪

It actually does....but if you haven't won it yet, it's because you didn't believe enough or clap loud enough.

Please dont use any facts, data or analysis. You just need to believe harder and faster. Believe and clap, that's how we can turn it around together

Yep spot on. I dont know if the rumours about player discontent are true, all I would say is there's no smoke without fire and you only have to assess the situation and look at the players to know something isn't right. I don't think they hate Cooper, if he had the personality of rodgers i think they might ha, but he seems like a genuinely normal guy, I actually think they are working hard for him for the most part, they are just a bit like "is this it? These are the tactics? Really? In the premier league, this is what we are going to do? Ok then" You can see he's out of his depth, beyond setting a team up to run alot there isn't much else going, or at least anything that I would class as a top level system/tactics. Its an interesting last point about succession planning, our board seem to be extreme hit and miss on that side you only have to look at going for enzo, massive hit, I personally was sad to see him go, wasn't convinced like others if we could execute his football at this level with these players, but I'd of loved to see it. But then we go from that to this and I think is there a plan? Ha but conversely I do actually agree that I think this season is so important to the board they won't take it for granted.....maybe....

I think the hope this season, unlike the rodgers season, is the board don't believe "it will be fine" like they and alot of the clappers did back then Rightly or wrongly they will 100% believe they have given cooper a very competitive squad and I dont think they are happy with just finishing 17th and scraping by. Even though most of us would. Theyve taken out another loan so relegation is going to be even more devastating. I know we rightfully take shots at the board for at best sitting in neutral and coasting for a few years, and at worst catastrophic mismanagement across the board....but i do believe it was a wake up call that they will want to avoid at all costs. They will think it's too early now, but mess up Bournemouth at home and I think things might change quickly.

The one thing you could never criticise winks for last season was effort, the amount of times he was sprinting back and diving in to tackles. That goal today tells you something isn't right. This isn't the winks we know

I think they made it very clear they dont really understand football and are just happy to be watching it. No credible argument other than I'm a better fan than you because I accept poor performance and don't really understand what I'm watching, happy clapper 101.

Great counter argument. Just as I thought, well done for confirming what I suspected 👍

They really aren't, sure some are, but alot of them have gone into real detailed analysis of why it's not working, high lighting several red flags. The consistent miss management of games in the same way over and over. Repetitive mistakes that hes shown no sign of fixing, if anything hes double downed on them even more. The flip side of the argument that you haven't made yet seems to just be believe in him, based on nothing other than we should because thats the nice thing to do? And we should ignore what data/analysis/our eyes tell us?

They still have no argument. They are now just resorting to name calling. Here are some facts, here is some data, here is some tactical analysis, a long list of reasons why warning signs and red flags are everywhere. Yeah well I just believe, and you are a twat for not believing. Too much Ted lasso imo.

Without him I am not convinced we would have a point on the board, that is the difference he is making every week. Essentially keeping cooper just about in a job. It will be a sad day when he inevitably leaves, lucky to have him.

Tells you all you need to know about the give him time brigade. They have no argument for it other than lazy football tropes so they resort to this because they have nothing else to offer. Pathetic really. Whether it's data, tactical analysis or just using your eyes and understanding football, he's mis managed every game. He almost couldn't believe we got to 2-2 we were that bad and he just stood there and did nothing, didn't react, just went shit, how the hell have we done that, better leave it then? Is it working?