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Crinklyfox

Education, education, education

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Shoe finisher

Baker

Sailor

Factory worker

Secretary

Process camera operator

Labourer

Solicitor

Chartered Engineer

The above is a list of occupations carried out by relatives appearing in my family tree. The last two are my sister and myself.

Without wishing to denigrate any of my forebears it seems to me that we were able to gain professions not available to our predecessors, and that is mainly down to the education that we received, including university.

My father and mother were both intelligent people. My father was particularly good at maths and would have gone to university if his family could have afforded it, which they could not. He spent his life working in industry in semi-skilled roles and never had the chance to use his academic potential.

My sister and I both had the opportunity to go to university on the basis of our 'A' level grades, but would not have been able to go had the grants system, which means-tested parents then awarded grants accordingly, not been in place. My family had a fear of debt and taking out loans, or buying goods on hire purchase, were non-starters. Without the grants system my sister and I would have followed our parents into other career paths.

The grants system is no more, and now students must take out substantial loans to attend further education. The result is that there is a generation of graduates in debt. There may also be many potential university graduates who don't go on to further education because they don't want to be saddled with that debt.

Of course, for families with money the current system is an inconvenience, but one that can be tolerated. For poorer families it can be a show-stopper to their children's education and limit their potential achievements.

None of the major political parties seem to have the will to tackle this issue, because of the revenue the loans system generates.

To me, education should be available to all without financial restriction, if we want to be a society that treats all its citizens fairly. The main parties use the excuse that a university graduate will get higher pay than a non-university graduate to justify the loans system. Well someone who gets 'A' levels may be more attractive to an employer than someone who doesn't, but we don't charge for education to that level.

I would like to see a return to the grants system, to my mind it is fairer to all than the current arrangements.

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I agree. It's not debt. It's essentially a university-tax.

 

As someone who has probably about £27,000 worth of student "debt", I have absolutely no problem with it. I used to be against student tuition fees, but after some thought I'd argue that this system is probably the fairest possible way.

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I've just started paying it back. 

 

It's a big chunk, 3 figures every month.

 

I know people who don't have a job after leaving uni, or low paying jobs and they aren't paying it back yet I am, it's very unfair.

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I've just started paying it back. 

 

It's a big chunk, 3 figures every month.

 

I know people who don't have a job after leaving uni, or low paying jobs and they aren't paying it back yet I am, it's very unfair.

 

The more you earn, the more you pay back. As fair as it gets really.

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The primary issue I have is the debt bubble that will burst in the future. Almost nobody will pay off the tuition fees loan in 30 years, at which time the government pays off the remainder.

Expect this to be a major issue in 25 years.

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In no way can the current system be a show-stopper for poorer families. Maybe the living costs could be but that's never really been different. The poorer you are the more you get in maintenance grant and loan from the government and the more help you get from the uni.

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Good education is the basis for all good. 

 

I like the idea that you get a "free loan" for education and you pay it back when you're earning a decent wage.

 

I'm pretty sure you never need to pay your loan back if you earn "only" around 25K. That i more than reasonable in my opinion.

 

Education is a necessity for everyone but it should be seen as an investment by the individual as well as the state.

 

The UK needs to look at its education and remove some courses, condense others, restructure others and add importance to "practical" skills.

 

Too many university courses are a relative waste of time. Too much time to learn too little, with few practical skills.

 

University should not be seen as a time to drink and enjoy but a time to learn and improve. Many 3 year courses could be condensed into 2 years whilst adding internships into this time.

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The primary issue I have is the debt bubble that will burst in the future. Almost nobody will pay off the tuition fees loan in 30 years, at which time the government pays off the remainder.

Expect this to be a major issue in 25 years.

 

the ones that do pay it off should get a rebate

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The systems ****ed, they know full well not everyones going to pay it back so the ones that get jobs hold the burden. counter intuitive

 

Surely it's fair that the more you earn, the more you pay back? How is it more fair that the tax-payer pays for the whole thing, even those who have never been to university? 

 

If you're earning enough that you pay the whole amount back, you have nothing to complain about.

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The current system favours poorer families massively and almost every degree grants enough free time for students to have jobs as well. Too many people go to Uni to study utter shite. I'd actually be in favour of reducing the money available to crowbar people into Uni and divert it to create more apprenticeships and other forms of vocational training to improve access to careers which, with support, could provide high class training on the job whilst allowing them to earn a wage.

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The current system favours poorer families massively and almost every degree grants enough free time for students to have jobs as well. Too many people go to Uni to study utter shite. I'd actually be in favour of reducing the money available to crowbar people into Uni and divert it to create more apprenticeships and other forms of vocational training to improve access to careers which, with support, could provide high class training on the job whilst allowing them to earn a wage.

Partially agree.

Apprenticeships have been denigrated with the rise in numbers taking them masking the often short length and low quality of them.

Decent quality, university equivalent apprenticeship programs need to be put in place for those who choose not to go to university.

I don't have a problem with the system helping poor people go to uni, a degree is essential to giving a people a chance to escape poverty.

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university has become the standard rather than a real need, too many people are now "qualified" in areas that have no need.

 

Its just a way to keep people dependent and controlled by the government longer 

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Teacher here and the way the current government has changed the curriculum it is not becoming even more university focused with more children being pushed towards the academic subjects such as history/geography/languages, and a new extinction of vocational and had on subjects such as D&T/Electronics/ level 1-2 college courses. 

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Partially agree.

Apprenticeships have been denigrated with the rise in numbers taking them masking the often short length and low quality of them.

Decent quality, university equivalent apprenticeship programs need to be put in place for those who choose not to go to university.

I don't have a problem with the system helping poor people go to uni, a degree is essential to giving a people a chance to escape poverty.

 

Apprenticeships need to be given new value but it's not only the manual type jobs that benefit from apprenticeships all work does. Maybe we call them internships to make them sound better but basically it's the same idea. Working on he job alongside mentors who help you, doing the real thing whilst working on the theoretical side too.

 

The Banking fiasco gave a great opportunity to take this whole idea a stage further. The banks we had to bail out should have been "nationalised", and then the universities should have provided 50% of the workforce through rolling internships alongside "profs" taken out of their academic base to mentor and tutor in the new nationalised banks alongside their students. This should be further developed into other industries (and commerce) and the govt should be the "owners" of these firms/shops running as non-profit making hand in hand aprrecticeship schools.

 

The goods manufactured and services given could then be "sold" on the market whilst also being given through a coupon subsidised system to the less well off. 

 

Furthermore the same system could replace to a certain extent the legal aid system. A "National" law service manned partially with intern law students (and secretaries, student cleaners etc...) working and learning in practice alongside "profs" and professionals which gives free or subsidised aid to those who can't afford it.

 

Should I go on?

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university has become the standard rather than a real need, too many people are now "qualified" in areas that have no need.

 

Its just a way to keep people dependent and controlled by the government longer 

 

Agree to the first part but not sure about the second. 

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I never had the chance to go uni back in the 60's. Only grammar school kids and the top two forms at my school did. I was in the middle.Does not mean that I am thick tho. I have learnt and been keener to learn since leaving school and as I have grown older. But I do not have the know how to be in a job like accountancy. I know things but do not retain the knowledge. Not that I do not want to, it is just not in my genetic make up. I make up for it with having a reasonable imagination.

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University students seem to believe that University is about having a good time. Whilst I agree that Education is about far more than academic subjects, first and foremost it is about improving work skills, theories and the thought process. Much less time needs to be devoted to partying and drinking. 

 

Term times are too short and should be year round.

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