Captain... Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Come one mate, players don't ask for transfers anymore, that stopped around 2010. They lose the 10% of the transfer fee if they do. Maybe not transfer requests, but if players wanted out you would expect to see a few more stories from their agents linked with other clubs, or unnamed sources claiming a certain player was not happy that Pearson was sacked.
cc_star Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 But you understand they can't, same with Martin Allen and Sven, this is standard practice. The players and Pearson's back room staff will have been briefed and they will know a lot more than what we do, so I guess we will see against Sunderland if they understand and respect the decision and get behind the new manager, or if they are disillusioned, disinterested and play like shit. Interestingly there hasn't been a flurry transfer requests and resignations in protest that Pearson was harshly done by, and if there was more dissent in the ranks then I think we would have heard something by now. I suspect that they know the full reason why, respect that decision, or understand why the owners had to take it and are now getting on with it. Except they did Stringer was told it was because of 35 points out of xx Vs money spent (especially on wages), so basically a piss poor return on investment, considering he never once even troubled the playoff places Martin Allen everyone knows too, just like Sousa and just about all managers With Pearson, he obviously achieved or exceeded footballing goals, so it comes down to A) Events of last season - well, he didn't get sacked for any of them B) As per club's PR - Breakdown in the relationship - Considering he was sacked over the phone & has said he didn't know anything about a breakdown... Hmmm (seems a convenient term, which doesn't have to be explicitly justified) C) They always wanted a 'name' manager & Hiddink (or A. N. Other) became available
Frank to be Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Except they did Stringer was told it was because of 35 points out of xx Vs money spent (especially on wages), so basically a piss poor return on investment, considering he never once even troubled the playoff places Martin Allen everyone knows too, just like Sousa and just about all managers With Pearson, he obviously achieved or exceeded footballing goals, so it comes down to A) Events of last season - well, he didn't get sacked for any of them B) As per club's PR - Breakdown in the relationship - Considering he was sacked over the phone & has said he didn't know anything about a breakdown... Hmmm (seems a convenient term, which doesn't have to be explicitly justified) C) They always wanted a 'name' manager & Hiddink (or A. N. Other) became available Sacked over the phone? That was a daily mirror rumour, get real. That he didn't know anything about a breakdown I believe was a rumour starred on here by one of the crazy heartbroken kids. Get real. Stop spreading sh1t when you know the square root of fvck all about what has gone on, either that or seriously go and support someone else.
Hungry Hungry Fox Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Moan moan moan And the season hasn't even started yet
Captain... Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Except they did Stringer was told it was because of 35 points out of xx Vs money spent (especially on wages), so basically a piss poor return on investment, considering he never once even troubled the playoff places Martin Allen everyone knows too, just like Sousa and just about all managers With Pearson, he obviously achieved or exceeded footballing goals, so it comes down to A) Events of last season - well, he didn't get sacked for any of them B) As per club's PR - Breakdown in the relationship - Considering he was sacked over the phone & has said he didn't know anything about a breakdown... Hmmm (seems a convenient term, which doesn't have to be explicitly justified) C) They always wanted a 'name' manager & Hiddink (or A. N. Other) became available Go back and read the official statements for Sven, Allen and Sousa, they are always the same, mutual consent, don't share the owners vision, blah blah blah... This is what happens, please enlighten me as to why Allen was sacked, because I have heard a fair few rumours but the official statement is the usual stuff. Can you also provide a quote from Pearson saying he was sacked over the phone and knew of no break down, the fact he was sacked and reinstated should have been a big clue. Pearson has remained as tight lipped as the owners, so surely he should be more open about why he was sacked. Again, prove they have "always wanted a name manager", this is just baseless speculation. If they were so desperate for a name manager, they would have sacked Pearson after the Watford Play-off, plenty of opportunity, they would also have sacked him last November, plenty of names about then. To be honest you are coming across as weirdly obsessed, I was a big Pearsonite while he was here, but I was not so blinkered as to see he was a PR disaster, he had been on think ice with the owners and he was only one more outburst from the sack. We will seemingly never know if that outburst actually came, nor the contents of it, the speculation is all about James, but even if it was innocuous and not deserving of the sack, Pearson's behaviour last season put him in that position. If you can't see that then there really is no hope for you.
CosbehFox Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Approaching O'Neill and Hiddink is not the same as wanting them as first choice. By all accounts we approached Allardyce doesn't mean they wanted Allardyce they were just exploring options. . If Ranieri was first choice as quoted by the club, why did we take so long to appoint him?
Captain... Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 If Ranieri was first choice as quoted by the club, why did we take so long to appoint him? Things take time, first choice doesn't mean they went straight to him as soon as they sacked Pearson, as I've said before he may not have been on their radar, either they didn't think they could get him, or they just didn't consider him to start with. Think of it this way, if you are recruiting someone, you check all the CVs, you invite some in for interview(s), after a due assessment of all candidates abilities you select your first choice and then offer them a contract. Then there is a period of negotiation, which for a manager at a football club is quite long winded. If as rumoured they approached O'Neill, and he said he wasn't interested, then that doesn't mean he was their first choice, just the first person approached, if they approached O'Neill and he was really excited about the job and really wanted to work with us then he may have been first choice and if he had become first choice they offered him a contract then they had been unable to reach an agreement over the contract then they would have lost out on their first choice. We would all love the 1996 Martin O'Neill in charge but he doesn't exist any more, we would all love Mourihnio, or Ferguson in charge ahead of Ranieri, that doesn't mean that Ranieri is 4th choice. Of the available candidates they spoke to approached he was their first choice. It is not difficult.
Guest MattP Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Sacked over the phone? That was a daily mirror rumour, get real. That he didn't know anything about a breakdown I believe was a rumour starred on here by one of the crazy heartbroken kids. Get real. Stop spreading sh1t when you know the square root of fvck all about what has gone on, either that or seriously go and support someone else. Shall we just clear the stadium and just let you in for next season? We can even turn your seat around so it faces the owners instead of the pitch and you can clap and cheer them for 90 minutes without even worrying about what happens football wise.
Guest MattP Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 If Ranieri was first choice as quoted by the club, why did we take so long to appoint him? As most people have said, he simply wasn't and anyone with half a brain or who hasn't been living under a rock this summer knows that.
Frank to be Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Shall we just clear the stadium and just let you in for next season? We can even turn your seat around so it faces the owners instead of the pitch and you can clap and cheer them for 90 minutes without even worrying about what happens football wise. I'm not the person inventing nonsense with which to criticise the club. That's you. You've actually just agreed with the point that because it took two weeks (two whole weeks!) to appoint a new manager that proves he wasn't first choice. I simply can't comprehend such a lack of basic understanding about how things work, so can only assume you know full well how ridiculous you are being but are happy to go with that as long as it provides you with an opportunity to criticise the club. And here you are, questioning my support? unbelievable.
Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 If Ranieri publicly said he wanted the job and was actually first choice, they could have phoned him that evening and the club announced it next day Two weeks between him saying he wanted the job and him getting the job shows the club were definitely considering other candidates ahead of him as the pre-season is massively important for getting the playing and coaching staff to get on the same page for the new season. Two weeks is a huge amount of time, I wouldn't be surprised if Ranieri was actually 4th or 5th choice, or not even considered until the original options all told the club to do one and they realised they had to sign someone up fast
Viva Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 If Ranieri publicly said he wanted the job and was actually first choice, they could have phoned him that evening and the club announced it next day Two weeks between him saying he wanted the job and him getting the job shows the club were definitely considering other candidates ahead of him as the pre-season is massively important for getting the playing and coaching staff to get on the same page for the new season. Two weeks is a huge amount of time, I wouldn't be surprised if Ranieri was actually 4th or 5th choice, or not even considered until the original options all told the club to do one and they realised they had to sign someone up fast Oh come on, do you really think you can complete a deal after a quick phone call one evening?! Whether he was first choice or not it would never happen like that. I'm sure they wanted to speak to him like they probably did a few people before making a final decision.
Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Oh come on, do you really think you can complete a deal after a quick phone call one evening?! Whether he was first choice or not it would never happen like that. I'm sure they wanted to speak to him like they probably did a few people before making a final decision. They'd have to negotiate and stuff, but not for two pissing weeks in a pre-season with time quickly running out. Ranieri had already said he wants the job and was unemployed, so it's not like the club will have had to grovel and get him out of an existing contact. Just step and think about how ridiculous this lie of him being first choice is, he clearly wasn't
Captain... Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 If Ranieri publicly said he wanted the job and was actually first choice, they could have phoned him that evening and the club announced it next day Two weeks between him saying he wanted the job and him getting the job shows the club were definitely considering other candidates ahead of him as the pre-season is massively important for getting the playing and coaching staff to get on the same page for the new season. Two weeks is a huge amount of time, I wouldn't be surprised if Ranieri was actually 4th or 5th choice, or not even considered until the original options all told the club to do one and they realised they had to sign someone up fast He barely missed any preseason, only the conditioning training, which was overseen by people they wanted to keep at the club, so it's not like Walsh and Shakespeare we're doing one thing, then Ranieri brought in his own guys to do something different. It is not as simple as offering someone a vacant position he had some of his own guys he wanted to bring in too, 3 new coaches were also added, I don't know whether that added to the complexity of the negotiations. Add to that it would most likely have been Rudkin, Neville and Whelan talking to Ranieri relaying back to Top and co. As I've said before we refuse to our business in the press, and we would not have released any sort of statement until it was all signed sealed and delivered, they could probably have announced it earlier than they did, but they didn't want to until it was completely signed off.
Frank to be Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 If Ranieri publicly said he wanted the job and was actually first choice, they could have phoned him that evening and the club announced it next day Two weeks between him saying he wanted the job and him getting the job shows the club were definitely considering other candidates ahead of him as the pre-season is massively important for getting the playing and coaching staff to get on the same page for the new season. Two weeks is a huge amount of time, I wouldn't be surprised if Ranieri was actually 4th or 5th choice, or not even considered until the original options all told the club to do one and they realised they had to sign someone up fast 1) draw up shortlist (no favourite has yet been determined) 2-3 days 2) arrange interviews with selected candidates 1-2 days 3) hold interviews 5-7 days 4) board then meets to review whay they've learned so far and at this point they decide their favourite 5) another couple of days to draw up a formal offer and negotiate terms This is how more or less every managerial appointment in every industry in the world goes.
Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 If he was first choice and publicly said he wanted the f***ing job they could have cut out all the bits about options/interviewing people they had no intention of offering the job to. So he almost certainly wasn't first choice.
Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Say if Klopp had publicly said he wanted the job, you honestly think it would have taken 2 weeks to sort out?
Viva Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 If he was first choice and publicly said he wanted the f***ing job they could have cut out all the bits about options/interviewing people they had no intention of offering the job to. So he almost certainly wasn't first choice. A very simple way of thinking.
Frank to be Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 If he was first choice and publicly said he wanted the f***ing job they could have cut out all the bits about options/interviewing people they had no intention of offering the job to. So he almost certainly wasn't first choice. The interviews are generally the most important part, so favourites wouldn't usually emerge until after the interviews. This is perfectly normal and is consistent with almost every appointment for any professional position everywhere in the world.
McFoxy Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Say if Klopp had publicly said he wanted the job, you honestly think it would have taken 2 weeks to sort out? yes, I do. Half of you lot don't live in the real world.
MPH Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 To me, you cant continuously improve if yoiu replace your manager for non footballing reasons. Now, don't misunderstand me, i'm not saying he shouldnt of been sacked... but thats a discussion for another thread.. When you introduce a different manager with a different approach, there's an element of readjustment and having to consolidate all over again. Claudio is vastly different to Pearson and no amount of him saying he doesnt want to change things too much can change that. And Claudio Ranieri has said that himself - his target is one more point than last season. And yes in some regards, one more point can mean 2 or 3 positions up the table and in real terms it IS an improvement. But it also can be 1 descision the ref gets wrong... or someone being half a yard offside..or one wibbly ball that fools the keeper - in other words just one point difference might not be down to us making the difference and improving. And here's the problem with having someone as your CEO who doesnt have a footballing back ground. Nothing to do with her being female - she has a damn good buisness mind and should be comended for her off the field achivement. But it's a little ... maybe naive is the right word... a little naive of her to think you can completely change your manager, who had a tight bond with the players, who was , in a footballing sense, successful for us last season ( in so much as he achieved the goals set out for him). and bring in someone so different like Claudio Ranieri. Who might indeed turn out to be good for us... and i really hope he does. To me, this coming season is about consolidation. Its about instilling " the italian tactical way" into our players minds and its about working out how we can push on from there.
Dan Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 MPH with a good post there which I agree with. It's alright saying we're aiming for continuous improvement, but let's actually see some evidence that we're working towards it before we start buying into it. I think Ranieri hasn't said or done a lot wrong so far but the proof will be on the pitch. I cannot just blindly support what the likes of Whelan come out with when I'm seeing little to support it. They've made some sound investments, but the footballing side still leaves a lot to be desired for me. PR disaster (that's well OTT for me) or not, no-one can sit there and deny that Pearson was taking this club anything other than forward on the pitch. We improved every year in the end.
Frank to be Posted 22 July 2015 Posted 22 July 2015 Say if Klopp had publicly said he wanted the job, you honestly think it would have taken 2 weeks to sort out? It's possible that in the unlikely event that a massively overqualified manager such as Klopp had expressed an interest the club might have forgone the usual process and approached Klopp quickly and without considering other candidates. That would be a rare scenario though, where a manager expresses an interest in a job well beneath him, and certainly wasn't the case here. Hence the club went through the usual process of drawing up a shortlist, interviewing candidates, reviewing and then deciding on a favourite. There's simply no indication that Ranieri was anything other than first choice.
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