Transgender woman Tara Hudson loses all-male prison appeal

[Webbo]

I don't think. I know. Not really difficult being progressive in here mine given the attitude towards the transgender here is 1950s at best.

For the record, the woman is an absolute twat and on the grounds of repeat offending should be banged up for a lot longer than she's been given.

That doesn't stop some of the abuse on here regards the transgender in general being pretty ****ing shit.

So should he/she be in women's prison or not?

[Finnegan]

So your morally superior argument is that criminals deserve compassion as long as they begin the process of changing gender? Surely by offering compassion on that basis you're guilty of positive discrimination, and of patronising the transgender population by implying they require compassion?

I apologise, I should have been more clear. I don't think this individual deserves leniency in the law, she's a twat.

I'm talking about compassion in the wider sense, as in I think in 2015 some of you need a lot more human decency in regards the transgender.

Merging Cultures and MPH have every right to be treated like a hedgehog and a wardrobe if that's how they want to self identify. Happy for one to live in the garden eating slugs and the other to sit in the corner, keep ****ing quiet and hold my clothes neatly.

[Captain...]

Really what it comes down to is do you think it is a good idea for someone who looks like this:

 

 

 

Should be locked up in somewhere like this:

 

[Webbo]

Really what it comes down to is do you think it is a good idea for someone who looks like this:

 

 

 

Should be locked up in somewhere like this:

 

And then you find out that he's got a knob, still want a go?

[MooseBreath]

How on earth did you make that conclusion?

Because I very much doubt our resident moral compasses would be even contemplating bringing compassion into the discussion were it not for the fact that this person is transgender, therefore it's obvious that Finnegan thinks merely being transgender is deserving of compassion which, as I said is morally wrong as it is positive discrimination and is also patronising. You could even argue that by implying transgender people deserve compassion by default Finnegan is admitting he sees them as lesser people, incapable of surviving without his support.

[Finnegan]

Because I very much doubt our resident moral compasses would be even contemplating bringing compassion into the discussion were it not for the fact that this person is transgender, therefore it's obvious that Finnegan thinks merely being transgender is deserving of compassion which, as I said is morally wrong as it is positive discrimination and is also patronising. You could even argue that by implying transgender people deserve compassion by default Finnegan is admitting he sees them as lesser people, incapable of surviving without his support.

Spectacular.

[Guest MattP]

What about the compassion for the poor woman that has to share a cell with a violent thug who has a cock?

And Finners I really hope you aren't being serious if you think society be compassionate and treat humans as hedgehogs if that's what they want, I think you are being daft on purpose but I'm not sure.

[Les-TA-Jon]

Because I very much doubt our resident moral compasses would be even contemplating bringing compassion into the discussion were it not for the fact that this person is transgender, therefore it's obvious that Finnegan thinks merely being transgender is deserving of compassion which, as I said is morally wrong as it is positive discrimination and is also patronising. You could even argue that by implying transgender people deserve compassion by default Finnegan is admitting he sees them as lesser people, incapable of surviving without his support.

 

Similarly you're probably negatively discriminating due to at least one of the following factors, the person in question is:

 

- Transgender

- A criminal

[Guest MattP]

Can see this being an episode on the next series of Orange is the new Black.

[MPH]

Classic use of the straw man argument there. Maybe stop talking about Hedgehogs and Wardrobes. 

 

"this whole personal identity rubbish" 

 

Wow. Personal identity isn't some small - 'leftie' ideal. It's a fundamental aspect of human life. And our ability to express it, have it tolerated, accepted or embraced by others is key to our personal wellbeing. 

 

Let me guess - you're white, in your 20s, male, british, straight? 

 

I bet you go through life expecting to be identified as such.

 

 

 

Congratulations your expert working out just identified about 80% of foxestalk members.

 

 

 

However, it didn't identify me.

[RedSoxUK]

 

But it's not that simple though is it, sure in terms of the law and how things are legally classified on forms and for state bureaucracy the 'facts are facts'. But the biology of it all is only part of the issue.  

 

The biological part of the issue is just as factual as the legality. Tara was born a man, that's biology. Tara identifying as a women, dressing as a women, and using hormones is entirely her choice with free will, but it doesn't change the fact that Tara's gender is confirmed at birth through chromosones.

 

 

You do realise gender essentialism as a theory is basically dead, right? Sex is biological and "fixed", gender is a sliding scale.

 

Sure if you're referring to DSD, but for the very vast majority your biological sex as you say fixed, is your gender.

[Captain...]

And then you find out that he's got a knob, still want a go?

 

I wouldn't even if she didn't, she looks nasty, I'm not just talking about sexual assault, I'm talking about the impact of someone who looks like her being placed in an all male prison, and not just on her but on all the other inmates. It is a recipe for disaster and common sense should kick in.

[Darkon84]

Really what it comes down to is do you think it is a good idea for someone who looks like this:

 

 

 

Should be locked up in somewhere like this:

 

 

 

He's not though. He's not in general population. He's in a separate wing, by himself.

[RedSoxUK]

Let me guess - you're white, in your 20s, male, british, straight? 

 

I bet you go through life expecting to be identified as such.

 

Why don't you just go full liberal and call him a white privileged cisgendered binary male scum?

[Captain...]

What about the compassion for the poor woman that has to share a cell with a violent thug who has a cock?

And Finners I really hope you aren't being serious if you think society be compassionate and treat humans as hedgehogs if that's what they want, I think you are being daft on purpose but I'm not sure.

 

so now the other prisoner is a poor woman and not a violent thug? What about the poor man that has share a cell with a violent thug with tits?

 

I would hope common sense would kick in somewhere and she would get a single cell, regardless of which prison she went in.

[Webbo]

I wouldn't even if she didn't, she looks nasty, I'm not just talking about sexual assault, I'm talking about the impact of someone who looks like her being placed in an all male prison, and not just on her but on all the other inmates. It is a recipe for disaster and common sense should kick in.

But he/she has a knob so could in theory sexually assault a female inmate at a women's prison.

[Guest MattP]

Brilliant he went with that accusation to one of the few on the board who aren't though

Ironicallly these sort of people genuinely think everyone conforms to their own prejudices and stereotypes.

[DB11]

But he/she has a knob so could in theory sexually assault a female inmate at a women's prison.

 

You only need a knob to commit rape. Females can sexually assault people too.

[Captain...]

He's not though. He's not in general population. He's in a separate wing, by himself.

 

There must be some contact with other prisoners, otherwise the whole argument is moot, apart from the fact that she wants to be treated as a women, but is in a male prison, if she is kept away from all other inmates, as she probably would be if she was in a female prison, due to the penis issue, then it really doesn't matter.

[Finnegan]

What about the compassion for the poor woman that has to share a cell with a violent thug who has a cock?

And Finners I really hope you aren't being serious if you think society be compassionate and treat humans as hedgehogs if that's what they want, I think you are being daft on purpose but I'm not sure.

No, you're being daft on purpose. You're playing dumb as usual to try and turn a debate back around because you know that if this stays a simply human, moral argument on whether or not dismissing transgender people as "gay blokes with boob jobs" is fair isn't going to make you look particularly nice.

You like to be the nice guy, Matt. It's much more comfortable for you when leicsmac, myself, CapShrap and co can be painted as the over-the-top raving lefty loonies and you Mr. Common Sense.

But at no point did I come in to this thread and say this woman was some kind of victim and should be put up in a five star lady prison and treated like a martyr.

I just object to some of the outright stupid and borderline disgusting shit being spouted about people with very legitimate gender issues. Comparing them to wanting to be a ****ing hedgehog, cmon.

[RedSoxUK]

You only need a knob to commit rape. Females can sexually assault people too.

 

Legally correct!

[Finnegan]

Can see this being an episode on the next series of Orange is the new Black.

Dude it's like three series worth of story arc in OITNB.

[Webbo]

You only need a knob to commit rape. Females can sexually assault people too.

Well yes, male prisoners can rape/assault their fellow male prisoners too.

[Guest MattP]

You do a cracking job of painting yourself as the over the top loony leftie in threads like this. He has a cock mate. A cock.

[DB11]

Well yes, male prisoners can rape/assault their fellow male prisoners too.

 

So I'm not sure that your point backs up why she should be placed in a male prison to protect female prisoners? Unless you're saying that she should be in a male prison so that female inmates cannot be raped. But then if she is not sexually attracted to women then I don't think that would happen either.