Transgender woman Tara Hudson loses all-male prison appeal

[Renart]

I am not sure it matters whether she has a 'penis' or not.The Guardian is stating that:

 

'It was six years ago that Hudson began the surgical and hormone treatments needed to make the full transition from male to female. “It’s been going fine,” Brooklyn said. “She’s got really big boobs, as you’ve seen from the pictures. But it’s a really long, slow process – there’s a lot of counselling involved.”'

 

That is someone who is committed to her gender; you do not go through that for 'kicks'. As @@Finnegan, I am not defending her for the crime, but some of the attitudes on here are a little bit 'fu**ed up'. It is a genuine issue with arguments on both sides but to reduce it to a case of 'he is a man with tits' is exceptionally narrow minded.

 

MattP asked if anyone would marry a woman post op; I have to say that I haven't considered it, and considering I will marry a woman who was born a woman next year it is unlikely to happen, but although I cannot put myself in that situation I would hope that I would approach that circumstance with some respect. This is not a man pi**ing around in girl's clothes. Agree with it or not she believes above everything that she is a woman. It is near impossible to put yourself in that situation though but I would hope that I could be understanding - so, maybe I could (I would like to think I could).

[Guest MattP]

I'm not sure your GP would describe it as "bullshit".

 

The GP in this case sides with me.

 

I'm sorry but people do see through this and the education that goes with it, you can teach a classroom full of children for 5 years that a duck is a horse if you really really want to, but as soon as they leave, walk down the street and see something that walks like a duck and quacks, they'll come to the assumption that's it a duck, not a horse.

 

Just like Finners I'm also off now, peace and love guys (or gals if any of you feel that way of course).

[filbertstreet]

wasn't there an american army bloke who did the same thing? pretty smart idea if you ever have to go to prison

[Guest MattP]

wasn't there an american army bloke who did the same thing? pretty smart idea if you ever have to go to prison

 

Yeah Chelsea Manning Let's not get started on that.

[Dr The Singh]

The GP in this case sides with me.

 

I'm sorry but people do see through this and the education that goes with it, you can teach a classroom full of children for 5 years that a duck is a horse if you really really want to, but as soon as they leave, walk down the street and see something that walks like a duck and quacks, they'll come to the assumption that's it a duck, not a horse.

 

Just like Finners I'm also off now, peace and love guys (or gals if any of you feel that way of course).

I'm a Doctor!!!

[filbertstreet]

Yeah Chelsea Manning Let's not get started on that.

at least she didn't choose Nottingham Forest Manning I guess

[Guest MattP]

at least she didn't choose Nottingham Forest Manning I guess

 

Or Bernard. He would have turned in his grave.

[Darkon84]

Yeah Chelsea Manning Let's not get started on that.

 

And Caitlyn Jenner is up for Vogue's 'Woman of the year'

[Guest MattP]

And Caitlyn Jenner is up for Vogue's 'Woman of the year'

 

 

Marie Curie used to win awards similar to that for discovering things like spontaneous radioactivity, now Bruce Jenner wins it for having a sex change.

 

Deep down I often think humanity isn't quite progressing as much as we like to think.

[RedSoxUK]

I am not sure it matters whether she has a 'penis' or not.The Guardian is stating that:

 

It definitely does, not just for prisons sake, but imo if you're so commited to the cause then cut it off.

 

Marie Curie used to win awards similar to that for discovering things like spontaneous radioactivity, now Bruce Jenner wins it for having a sex change.

 

Deep down I often think humanity isn't quite progressing as much as we like to think.

 

Caitlyn Jenner is incredibly stunning, and brave.. .. ... .

[Darkon84]

 

Marie Curie used to win awards similar to that for discovering things like spontaneous radioactivity, now Bruce Jenner wins it for having a sex change.

 

Deep down I often think humanity isn't quite progressing as much as we like to think.

 

 

Depressing really. To think there's women out there contributing to science and politics etc, and then along comes someone who used to be a bloke and picks up the award. Hows that for positive female role models

[Wymsey]

[Webbo]

Now if I was in prison with her...

[Voll Blau]

It definitely does, not just for prisons sake, but imo if you're so commited to the cause then cut it off.

 

Caitlyn Jenner is incredibly stunning, and brave.. .. ... .

 

You do realise that's not something you can just do overnight, right?

 

My understanding is before any kind of medical treatment can even begin (let alone surgical procedures such as that), people self-identifying as transgendered have to have lived as the opposite gender for at least two years and be assessed numerous times by numerous doctors and specialists during that time. In essence, if all the medical professionals involved are not 100% satisfied the patient in question has a genuine, pre-determined medical condition, they won't prescribe the relevant hormones or get anywhere near the operating table (that's if the patient so desires of course).

 

Why the correct legal and medical checks weren't carried out in this case needs investigating for sure, but it shouldn't be used as a stick to beat transgendered people in general with.

[Renart]

It definitely does, not just for prisons sake, but imo if you're so commited to the cause then cut it off.

 

 

That is the point I am making. I can understand it being part of the discussion from a prison point of view, but she has been going through 6 years of surgery, hormones and counselling: that is commitment!  It isn't the same as having your wisdom tooth out!

[Renart]

You do realise that's not something you can just do overnight, right?

 

My understanding is before any kind of medical treatment can even begin (let alone surgical procedures such as that), people self-identifying as transgendered have to have lived as the opposite gender for at least two years and be assessed numerous times by numerous doctors and specialists during that time. In essence, if all the medical professionals involved are not 100% satisfied the patient in question has a genuine, pre-determined medical condition, they won't prescribe the relevant hormones or get anywhere near the operating table (that's if the patient so desires of course).

 

Why the correct legal and medical checks weren't carried out in this case needs investigating for sure, but it shouldn't be used as a stick to beat transgendered people in general with.

 

This. Pretty much the same thing at the same time.

[RedSoxUK]

That is the point I am making. I can understand it being part of the discussion from a prison point of view, but she has been going through 6 years of surgery, hormones and counselling: that is commitment!  It isn't the same as having your wisdom tooth out!

 

I'm not saying it's as simple as that, of course it isn't.

 

 

You do realise that's not something you can just do overnight, right?

 

My understanding is before any kind of medical treatment can even begin (let alone surgical procedures such as that), people self-identifying as transgendered have to have lived as the opposite gender for at least two years and be assessed numerous times by numerous doctors and specialists during that time. In essence, if all the medical professionals involved are not 100% satisfied the patient in question has a genuine, pre-determined medical condition, they won't prescribe the relevant hormones or get anywhere near the operating table (that's if the patient so desires of course).

 

Why the correct legal and medical checks weren't carried out in this case needs investigating for sure, but it shouldn't be used as a stick to beat transgendered people in general with.

 

She's been identifying as a women for 6 years and has had the hormones and councilling. That questions whether or not she want's her appendage removed, or if the psychiatrics have you know, not allowed the surgery there because her past records or mental state.

[Captain...]

I'm not saying it's as simple as that, of course it isn't.

 

 

 

She's been identifying as a women for 6 years and has had the hormones and councilling. That questions whether or not she want's her appendage removed, or if the psychiatrics have you know, not allowed the surgery there because her past records or mental state.

 

Maybe she Identifies as a woman with a Penis? If a woman had a penis op, she would  still be a woman, and be sent to a women's jail.

 

One solution is stop segregating prisoners, chuck 'em all in together.

[ramboacdc]

to be fair when i saw the pic i went "thats a woman!"

without reading the article i don't know if he is pre op or post op. guess that came into play. 

[MPH]

What happens if someone identifies as  a man only at the weekends? Could they go to a male prison at the weekends and a women s one during the week?

[Voll Blau]

What happens if someone identifies as  a man only at the weekends? Could they go to a male prison at the weekends and a women s one during the week?

 

No, they couldn't. See my above post.

[RedSoxUK]

Maybe she Identifies as a woman with a Penis? If a woman had a penis op, she would  still be a woman, and be sent to a women's jail.

 

One solution is stop segregating prisoners, chuck 'em all in together.

 

We could go through all the LGBTQ+ gender identity descriptions, but none of it comes close to whether or not the one that identifies as a cat is a woman, and the one that identifies as a dog is a man. 

 

When the mainstream pushes this, it will eventually lead to pedophiles being classified as a sexual identity, and beastiality...

 

I don't agree with putting them all together, i think the dynamic of male and female prisons is right, antone that is of troubled issue shold themselves be in segregation within their corresponding prison.

[Captain...]

We could go through all the LGBTQ+ gender identity descriptions, but none of it comes close to whether or not the one that identifies as a cat is a woman, and the one that identifies as a dog is a man. 

 

When the mainstream pushes this, it will eventually lead to pedophiles being classified as a sexual identity, and beastiality...

 

I don't agree with putting them all together, i think the dynamic of male and female prisons is right, antone that is of troubled issue shold themselves be in segregation within their corresponding prison.

 

But what makes the dynamic of male and female segregation right?

 

Why should transgender get preferential treatment and be segregated from other inmates?

[MPH]

But what makes the dynamic of male and female segregation right?

 

Why should transgender get preferential treatment and be segregated from other inmates?

 

Safety?

[RedSoxUK]

But what makes the dynamic of male and female segregation right?

 

Why should transgender get preferential treatment and be segregated from other inmates?

 

Would you put male convicted rapists in to the same general populus as a female tax dodger?

 

I'm not saying they should get preferential treatment, the options are slim - we're not going to open up a seperate prison for those that see their identify as different from their biological one. The only way to protect them and the general populus is to segregate from within. It's cheaper, and it's safer. To me that's the only way, and it's the way it has been majoritively. If the transgender doesn't want the safety net then don't give it them, I recall one of Louis Theroux's docs on the matter, coincidentally.