RedSoxUK Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 And do we normally identify the gender of people and classify them in everyday life based off chromosomal DNA? If biology says I'm a man, i'm a man. If biology says i'm a woman, i'm a woman Like I said, You can be tolerant all you want, accepting all you want; it's part of being polite, but facts are facts.
Darkon84 Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Nope. It's the bottom of the barrel. I've seen FT hit it before, but never quite with such panache. Care to add something to the discussion then? He's still a bloke, he's got a history of violence, he's where he should be. Besides, As I stated before, hes' in the medical wing, by himself, not at the feet of a baying mob of blokes trying to assault him!
Finnegan Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Good grief, there's so much stupid in here I can't even be bothered to get involved. Foxestalk at it again.
bmt Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 I find it a bit sad how much most of you are emphasising the male pronoun. I don't know enough about the case but if they are post op and take female hormones they should definitely be classified as a woman.
Harry - LCFC Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Good grief, there's so much stupid in here I can't even be bothered to get involved. Foxestalk at it again. It's so typical of you to make grand statements about how morally superior you are and then inform us that you aren't able to explain why you're right. It's boring.
MooseBreath Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 What are leicsmac and Finnegan actually moaning about?
Guest MattP Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Would anyone on this forum cross swords with this person while seriously having the belief she's a "woman"? Come on.
Webbo Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 I find it a bit sad how much most of you are emphasising the male pronoun. I don't know enough about the case but if they are post op and take female hormones they should definitely be classified as a woman. He/she isn't post op.
Finnegan Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 It's so typical of you to make grand statements about how morally superior you are and then inform us that you aren't able to explain why you're right. It's boring. It is. It is typical of me. I'm not really surprised that you're bored of being morally inferior, I'd like to think that would motivate you to be a more compassionate soul, however. Alas.
RedSoxUK Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 It is. It is typical of me. I'm not really surprised that you're bored of being morally inferior, I'd like to think that would motivate you to be a more compassionate soul, however. Alas. What is your argument though? That anyone opposing this is somewhat stupid and ignorant?
bmt Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 He/she isn't post op. To be fair that makes it much more difficult, what about hormones? I have followed the story, but I feel like I don't know the facts well enough to have a conclusive opinion.
RedSoxUK Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Would anyone on this forum cross swords with this person while seriously having the belief she's a "woman"? Come on. Tara would most definitely beat me in a fight, I don't want to get headbutted though.
leicsmac Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 If we wanted confirmation that's how we'd go about proving it. The reason we don't is because it's impractical and invasive, not because it's a faulty method. So you might agree that in the majority of cases (such as the one here) such a burden of proof is not required? If biology says I'm a man, i'm a man. If biology says i'm a woman, i'm a woman Like I said, You can be tolerant all you want, accepting all you want; it's part of being polite, but facts are facts. You do realise gender essentialism as a theory is basically dead, right? Sex is biological and "fixed", gender is a sliding scale. Care to add something to the discussion then? Honestly Darkon...normally I would but I think this one is such a morass of lack of understanding I don't think it's worth it to try, which is a shame. I'm not going to convince anyone who's contributed to this thread - views are far too ingrained. Normally I don't mind that either (check out the politics threads) but on this? No.
Guest MattP Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 What on earth has this really got to do with compassion? What a piss weak angle of argument to take. It's like you know you are in the wrong but you can't let the thread pass without making sure you show everyone how progressive and tolerant you think you are.
Harry - LCFC Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 It is. It is typical of me. I'm not really surprised that you're bored of being morally inferior, I'd like to think that would motivate you to be a more compassionate soul, however. Alas. Your post only confirms to me that you have nothing to say in response. Moralising might make you feel good about yourself but it won't do anything to bring people onto your side.
Les-TA-Jon Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Brute. She's not a woman either, she's a man with mutilated genitals. If I agree with Germaine Greer on something, it has to be right. He's a bloke who dresses like a bird and has fake tits. Perhaps he should't have boken the law? Imagine actually trying to claim you are a woman while you still have a penis. You're a bloke in drag with a cock, get over it. Classy! Hyperbolic, insensitive language much? Yeah, I don't get it. He is legally a guy, and therefore should be treated as such legally. You can't just decide you want to be a hedgehog and insist on being treated as one. Well I guess you can, but the law shouldn't accept it and people shouldn't be forced to accept it either. So if someone's personal identity is aligned with a gender different to their sex, they shouldn't be allowed to make that choice and ask society to treat them as such? He's a hardened criminal who likes wearing dresses. I'm all for transsexual liberation, it's not for me but I think it's nice that the option is there for people who want to take it, but just because you're a bit different doesn't mean everyone should feel sorry for you no matter what crimes you commit. This is highlighting how a lot of people in this thread are confused. Transvestite = A man that likes to dress in women's clothing Transsexual = A person who's sexual identity is the opposite to their biological sex Transgender = A person who's personal gender identify is either the opposite to their biological sex and/or ambigous If biology says I'm a man, i'm a man. If biology says i'm a woman, i'm a woman Like I said, You can be tolerant all you want, accepting all you want; it's part of being polite, but facts are facts. But it's not that simple though is it, sure in terms of the law and how things are legally classified on forms and for state bureaucracy the 'facts are facts'. But the biology of it all is only part of the issue.
Finnegan Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 What on earth has this really got to do with compassion? What a piss weak angle of argument to take. It's like you know you are in the wrong but you can't let the thread pass without making sure you show everyone how progressive and tolerant you think you are. I don't think. I know. Not really difficult being progressive in here mine given the attitude towards the transgender here is 1950s at best. For the record, the woman is an absolute twat and on the grounds of repeat offending should be banged up for a lot longer than she's been given. That doesn't stop some of the abuse on here regards the transgender in general being pretty ****ing shit.
MooseBreath Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 It is. It is typical of me. I'm not really surprised that you're bored of being morally inferior, I'd like to think that would motivate you to be a more compassionate soul, however. Alas. So your morally superior argument is that criminals deserve compassion as long as they begin the process of changing gender? Surely by offering compassion on that basis you're guilty of positive discrimination, and of patronising the transgender population by implying they require compassion?
MPH Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Classy! Hyperbolic, insensitive language much? So if someone's personal identity is aligned with a gender different to their sex, they shouldn't be allowed to make that choice and ask society to treat them as such? If i suddenly announce to the world my personal identity is as a wardrobe. does that mean i should be treated as a wardrobe and expect others to see me as one? Crass, i know. But so is this whole personal identity rubbish.
Finnegan Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Your post only confirms to me that you have nothing to say in response. Moralising might make you feel good about yourself but it won't do anything to bring people onto your side. lol I gave up trying to bring anyone around years ago, bud. Nobody changes their mind on the internet. I've had pages of arguments with people on here (probably on this issue as well at some point.) I can't be arsed anymore, I'm sorry if this upsets you dude.
Les-TA-Jon Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 So your morally superior argument is that criminals deserve compassion as long as they begin the process of changing gender? Surely by offering compassion on that basis you're guilty of positive discrimination, and of patronising the transgender population by implying they require compassion? How on earth did you make that conclusion?
Darkon84 Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Honestly Darkon...normally I would but I think this one is such a morass of lack of understanding I don't think it's worth it to try, which is a shame. I'm not going to convince anyone who's contributed to this thread - views are far too ingrained. Normally I don't mind that either (check out the politics threads) but on this? No. I know you do usually get involved, so thought you may do here as well. I wouldn't say my views are ingrained or morally wrong etc on this case. I can see the opposite side of the coin, I can see why it can be argued that he could be moved to a female prison, but I do think he is in the correct place
Guest MattP Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 While we're on a roll let's have a go at this bastard flying back to Britain today, 14 years taxpayer funded holiday in Cuba and the miserable bastard is still whinging.
Wymsey Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 While we're on a roll let's have a go at this bastard flying back to Britain today, 14 years taxpayer funded holiday in Cuba and the miserable bastard is still whinging. He's such a bitch.
Les-TA-Jon Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 If i suddenly announce to the world my personal identity is as a wardrobe. does that mean i should be treated as a wardrobe and expect others to see me as one? Crass, i know. But so is this whole personal identity rubbish. Classic use of the straw man argument there. Maybe stop talking about Hedgehogs and Wardrobes. "this whole personal identity rubbish" Wow. Personal identity isn't some small - 'leftie' ideal. It's a fundamental aspect of human life. And our ability to express it, have it tolerated, accepted or embraced by others is key to our personal wellbeing. Let me guess - you're white, in your 20s, male, british, straight? I bet you go through life expecting to be identified as such.
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