Renart Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34675778 I find this a little mad. She has had surgery and lived as a woman all of her adult life. However, she has not 'legally' changed her gender identity. Why she hasn't done this must be asked as she has gone to the efforts of surgery but not gone down the legal route. That aside, someone who has gone through the operation and all it entails must be considered a woman and placing her in a male prison can only place her in danger (physical or psychological). I get that in the eyes of the law she is still a man,and that is why this has been done, but surely this needs a bit of a common sense approach.
Darkon84 Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 He seems like a right nasty piece of work. Perhaps prison is what he needs to sort himself out. Besides, he's not in the general population, he's kept separately in the medical wing. It's really not as horrific as you might first think.
MooseBreath Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 If con air taught me anything it's that gay blokes who like dressing as women are star attractions in male prisons
MPH Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34675778 I find this a little mad. She has had surgery and lived as a woman all of her adult life. However, she has not 'legally' changed her gender identity. Why she hasn't done this must be asked as she has gone to the efforts of surgery but not gone down the legal route. That aside, someone who has gone through the operation and all it entails must be considered a woman and placing her in a male prison can only place her in danger (physical or psychological). I get that in the eyes of the law she is still a man,and that is why this has been done, but surely this needs a bit of a common sense approach. Seems a bit of a mess as you point out. But the prison system is all about those who have broken the law.... so how would it look if they themselves start ignoring the laws and legalities?
Guest MattP Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Brute. She's not a woman either, she's a man with mutilated genitals. If I agree with Germaine Greer on something, it has to be right.
AKCJ Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 He's a bloke who dresses like a bird and has fake tits. Perhaps he should't have boken the law?
Merging Cultures Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Yeah, I don't get it. He is legally a guy, and therefore should be treated as such legally. You can't just decide you want to be a hedgehog and insist on being treated as one. Well I guess you can, but the law shouldn't accept it and people shouldn't be forced to accept it either.
yorkie1999 Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 He should have thought about the consequences of not having a cock before he chopped it off.
Renart Posted 30 October 2015 Author Posted 30 October 2015 Seems a bit of a mess as you point out. But the prison system is all about those who have broken the law.... so how would it look if they themselves start ignoring the laws and legalities? This is a fair point and I get it. What I was trying to say is that the forms and procedures that she has to go through to legally change her gender are far less of a statement of her gender than the operation or, in fact, living as a woman. She would 'tick all the boxes' without question for a legal gender reassignment but just hasn't done it - which would put her in a female prison. It is tricky as the law is the law as you say. I am leaving aside the comments about whether she deserves to go to prison as the answer to that is of course she does, that is not the point - it does not mean that she 'deserves everything that she gets', prisoners also have a right to protection (that is not given up when a crime is committed). I am also leaving aside the comments about whether a man who has had an operation can actually be a woman - that is not the point either (although many will argue that it is); there is a way legally to change gender which is reliant on all of the things that she has already done (there is not a way to become a hedgehog btw). However, the fact is she hasn't gone through the legal process to change gender, but should a decision be made on the principle of law when the individual concerned fulfills the criteria laid out for 'being a woman' (according to another section of the law, regardless of what objections might be raised on non-legal grounds) but has not filled out the paper work, when that decision could make the situation more difficult for all - maybe it should? The possible reason for not filling out the paper work might well be that the individual does not recognize the legitimacy and legality of the initial assignment of the male gender in the first place. I don't know if that is the case but all of this suggests that it is certainly a bit more tricky than saying 'he was born a man - stick him in a male prison.'
Claridge Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34675778 I find this a little mad. She has had surgery and lived as a woman all of her adult life. However, she has not 'legally' changed her gender identity. Why she hasn't done this must be asked as she has gone to the efforts of surgery but not gone down the legal route. That aside, someone who has gone through the operation and all it entails must be considered a woman and placing her in a male prison can only place her in danger (physical or psychological). I get that in the eyes of the law she is still a man,and that is why this has been done, but surely this needs a bit of a common sense approach. F**k him
Webbo Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 This was on the radio the other day. Apparently he's still got a cock. Maybe female prisoners wouldn't want to shower/share a cell with him.
The Railway Man Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Imagine actually trying to claim you are a woman while you still have a penis. You're a bloke in drag with a cock, get over it.
Les-TA-Jon Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Usual level of Foxestalk 'understanding', 'empathy' and 'humanity' on display in this thread then...
Captain... Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Why should female prisoners be forced to be live with a "man"? (and I mean man in a legal sense and not "he's not a real woman" sense) It is not just her needs that should be considered. I guess you have to consider why prisons are segregated. If it is to avoid sexual tension/aggression between inmates then it is a mistake to put a female form in a male prison, despite legal classification as a man, she will get a lot of attention and cause problems for herself and other prisoners, but if that is the case then there is an argument to segregate based on sexuality too. If it is because groups of a single gender are easier to control then mixed groups then the argument would come down to how she acts, whether, despite having tits she conforms to male stereotypes and has the same emotional needs as a man. If it is because men and women have differing physical needs when it comes to punishment and rehabilitation then she should be in a women's prison as she is physically a woman and needs to do things like sit down and wee. Then there is the fact that being born a man, despite surgery and hormone therapy there is still a good chance she will be stronger and more aggressive than other women, but then she will be with violent criminal women. On balance the logical thing to do would be to put her in the women's prison, it would be a lot less of a disturbance and probably cheaper as she wouldn't need to be watched more closely, the only real argument against is that other women may not want/shouldn't have to share a prison with an ex-man, but then they are criminals too so lose their rights on this one. Edit: Just seen Weebo post that she still has a cock, that changes a lot.
MPH Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Usual level of Foxestalk 'understanding', 'empathy' and 'humanity' on display in this thread then... Well we 'understand' that his 'humanity' is still a few inches long and we have 'empathy' with the female prisoners who might not want to shower and share a cell with him
RedSoxUK Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Few problems here. 1) he deserves prison. 2) If he's strong enough to comit his crimes, he's strong enough to handle prison under privileged protection. 3) Regardless of what you want to call Tara (male or Female), every chromosone in Tara's body with the exception of Tara's sperm (because Tara has a penis) is male. 4) Activists calling out specifically that Tara is endangered, completely flawed - she will be under protection.5) With that ^, there are a phenominal amount of sexual assault cases in prison, people are raped at a high rate - It's not that bad here, but in the USA, more men are raped in prison than women are on the street - that's not marginally, it's about 4x more in prison. This stuff has been covered for decades; If I want to chop of my penis and get reconstruction surgery to look like a Seal, am I a Seal? No - i'm just a deformed man without a penis. You can be tolerant all you want, accepting all you want; it's part of being polite, but facts are facts.
Webbo Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 According to the radio you can be legally registered as a woman at a certain stage, after the op I'd assume, but he isn't there yet. Like a lot of things, there are no easy answers.
leicsmac Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Few problems here. 1) he deserves prison. 2) If he's strong enough to comit his crimes, he's strong enough to handle prison under privileged protection. 3) Regardless of what you want to call Tara (male or Female), every chromosone in Tara's body with the exception of Tara's sperm (because Tara has a penis) is male. 4) Activists calling out specifically that Tara is endangered, completely flawed - she will be under protection. 5) With that ^, there are a phenominal amount of sexual assault cases in prison, people are raped at a high rate - It's not that bad here, but in the USA, more men are raped in prison than women are on the street - that's not marginally, it's about 4x more in prison. This stuff has been covered for decades; If I want to chop of my penis and get reconstruction surgery to look like a Seal, am I a Seal? No - i'm just a deformed man without a penis. You can be tolerant all you want, accepting all you want; it's part of being polite, but facts are facts. And do we normally identify the gender of people and classify them in everyday life based off chromosomal DNA?
fuchsntf Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Immancipation for cross-gender..!!! I wouldnt like my daughter sharing a cell, with this guy its just not right, shes only there because she wants to be a man, and assulted her doctor...If you ask me this is a right BALLS UP.
MooseBreath Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Usual level of Foxestalk 'understanding', 'empathy' and 'humanity' on display in this thread then... He's a hardened criminal who likes wearing dresses. I'm all for transsexual liberation, it's not for me but I think it's nice that the option is there for people who want to take it, but just because you're a bit different doesn't mean everyone should feel sorry for you no matter what crimes you commit.
leicsmac Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 Is like woodworms? Nope. It's the bottom of the barrel. I've seen FT hit it before, but never quite with such panache.
Harry - LCFC Posted 30 October 2015 Posted 30 October 2015 And do we normally identify the gender of people and classify them in everyday life based off chromosomal DNA? If we wanted confirmation that's how we'd go about proving it. The reason we don't is because it's impractical and invasive, not because it's a faulty method.
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