The NHS (National Health Service) Thread

[Foxdiamond]

5 minutes ago, kenny said:

It hasn't happened yet and the Tories have been selling it for 80 years.

 

Why anyone would want it is a mystery 

They have sold nearly everything else. Perhaps because the US is so much a part of what we see in the media we fear something along the lines of what they have and not enough knowledge of what other countries do?

[kenny]

2 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

They have sold nearly everything else. Perhaps because the US is so much a part of what we see in the media we fear something along the lines of what they have and not enough knowledge of what other countries do?

If the highly paid management of the NHS cannot learn from anyone in the world except the USA then we are probably best without them . The chief executive earns £100k a year more than Boris, surely we can expect better than you describe?

[Fazzer 7]

On 14/07/2022 at 18:40, Samilktray said:

I started working in the NHS earlier this year and it’s been a real eye opener tbf

Can you expand please? 

[Foxdiamond]

7 minutes ago, kenny said:

If the highly paid management of the NHS cannot learn from anyone in the world except the USA then we are probably best without them . The chief executive earns £100k a year more than Boris, surely we can expect better than you describe?

Does make you wonder. 

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, kenny said:

It hasn't happened yet and the Tories have been selling it for 80 years.

 

Why anyone would want it is a mystery 

Yeah, and a supervolcanic eruption hasn't happened "yet" either. Doesn't really stop it from being an undesirable yet possible outcome that needs to be considered accordingly.

 

And it just needs enough powerful interests to want it, they seem to do a good job of then convincing enough of the electorate.

 

However, point taken, there are other systems that should be looked to as an example... but "free at the point of service" must always be non negotiable.

[Fazzer 7]

In 2005 I ruptured my achilles tendon, It was a Spring Sunday around midday. My wife drove me to LRI. I was told the wait was 6-8 hours. We drove to Kettering and was seen almost immediately. Long waits at the bigger hospitals are nothing new. You’d have thought by now they could have had a better system in place. The NHS needs to evolve with the times instead of spending resources on bureaucracy and non medical staffing. 

[kenny]

4 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

In 2005 I ruptured my achilles tendon, It was a Spring Sunday around midday. My wife drove me to LRI. I was told the wait was 6-8 hours. We drove to Kettering and was seen almost immediately. Long waits at the bigger hospitals are nothing new. You’d have thought by now they could have had a better system in place. The NHS needs to evolve with the times instead of spending resources on bureaucracy and non medical staffing. 

We asked to go to the George Elliot for our birth hospital. Unfortunately that is impossible as it's a different trust despite being 20 minutes away.

 

[kenny]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah, and a supervolcanic eruption hasn't happened "yet" either. Doesn't really stop it from being an undesirable yet possible outcome that needs to be considered accordingly.

 

And it just needs enough powerful interests to want it, they seem to do a good job of then convincing enough of the electorate.

 

However, point taken, there are other systems that should be looked to as an example... but "free at the point of service" must always be non negotiable.

I'd pay at point of use if it meant it was available when I needed it.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, kenny said:

I'd pay at point of use if it meant it was available when I needed it.

And no doubt would the vast majority of people with the ability to pay. My concern would be for those who *couldn't*. Even one falling through the cracks would be unacceptable, imo.

 

That's why "free at the point of use" is so important.

[kenny]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And no doubt would the vast majority of people with the ability to pay. My concern would be for those who *couldn't*. Even one falling through the cracks would be unacceptable, imo.

 

That's why "free at the point of use" is so important.

It might make people value the care they receive. People only really value the things they have to pay for.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, kenny said:

It might make people value the care they receive. People only really value the things they have to pay for.

Ah, the tragedy of the commons.

 

While it's a fair point, I don't think a proportionate response is a system that will result in unnecessary suffering (and perhaps worse) to people who cannot pay.

[Foxdiamond]

11 minutes ago, kenny said:

It might make people value the care they receive. People only really value the things they have to pay for.

I understand what you mean but if paying NI you are paying. 

[Foxdiamond]

17 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And no doubt would the vast majority of people with the ability to pay. My concern would be for those who *couldn't*. Even one falling through the cracks would be unacceptable, imo.

 

That's why "free at the point of use" is so important.

Plenty of people fall on hard times even if they once were doing well 

[kenny]

4 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

I understand what you mean but if paying NI you are paying. 

Agreed and many of us pay more than we get out.

 

It doesn't change the issue that the NHS is a mess and there doesn't appear to be any sign of it getting better.

 

I also don't think different politicians and more cash will help.

[Foxdiamond]

3 minutes ago, kenny said:

Agreed and many of us pay more than we get out.

 

It doesn't change the issue that the NHS is a mess and there doesn't appear to be any sign of it getting better.

 

I also don't think different politicians and more cash will help.

Always been happy to pay in and been delighted not to have called on its services too much. I don't have the answers but free at point of need is vital 

[Fazzer 7]

I remember years ago a documentary about addressing inefficiency within the NHS. I think it was by a guy called Tony Francis a business management consultant or similar. I don’t remember the hospital which featured. But the one thing I do, was that the operating theatre’s stood unused on Fridays simply because the surgeons and consultants didn’t want any interruptions to their weekends in the event of there being any complications to deal with. Please tell me that sort of thing is not still practiced. 

[Foxdiamond]

3 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I remember years ago a documentary about addressing inefficiency within the NHS. I think it was by a guy called Tony Francis a business management consultant or similar. I don’t remember the hospital which featured. But the one thing I do, was that the operating theatre’s stood unused on Fridays simply because the surgeons and consultants didn’t want any interruptions to their weekends in the event of there being any complications to deal with. Please tell me that sort of thing is not still practiced. 

I know there is less staff at the maternity units at weekends. There was a shortage when my daughter went into labour on a Saturday and gave birthday early hours of a Sunday.

[kenny]

8 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I remember years ago a documentary about addressing inefficiency within the NHS. I think it was by a guy called Tony Francis a business management consultant or similar. I don’t remember the hospital which featured. But the one thing I do, was that the operating theatre’s stood unused on Fridays simply because the surgeons and consultants didn’t want any interruptions to their weekends in the event of there being any complications to deal with. Please tell me that sort of thing is not still practiced. 

We were induced (baby) on a Friday. If we were offered that again I would refuse as there were no staff at the weekend and our staff was twice the length it should have been.

[Foxdiamond]

When we had our daughter in 1983 first time mums had nearly a week to get over birth in hospital and received brilliant care. Although staff do their best this is a thing of the past and out the mum and baby go on first day so I understand. May not be a clinical need to stay in but a marked difference 

[kenny]

3 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

When we had our daughter in 1983 first time mums had nearly a week to get over birth in hospital and received brilliant care. Although staff do their best this is a thing of the past and out the mum and baby go on first day so I understand. May not be a clinical need to stay in but a marked difference 

They still offer that at Melton but it's due for closure. It's a really nice facility.

[Eurofox]

Not all National insurance money goes to the NHS...

 

[Lionator]

We have 40 new hospitals on the way which should hopefully ease the strain. 
 

Also I feel like people aren’t talking about this enough. 

 

[Bryn]

3 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

When we had our daughter in 1983 first time mums had nearly a week to get over birth in hospital and received brilliant care. Although staff do their best this is a thing of the past and out the mum and baby go on first day so I understand. May not be a clinical need to stay in but a marked difference 

 

In fairness this isn't because of bed pressures for the most part. In almost all domains prolonged hospitalisation has a detrimental effects on health outcomes. It's convenient for the people pushing the money around that it is nearly always medically justifiable to boot people out of hospital the second they are well enough.

 

Let's also be absolutely clear that this is no different in other countries. In the US the hospital will let you stay to the precise second your extortionate insurance permits and not a second longer, and that's despite you paying a huge deductible.

Edited 17 July 2022 by Bryn

[Captain...]

6 hours ago, Eurofox said:

Private medical insurance in the Netherlands costs £1000 a year.

which is way cheaper than national insurance 

That's not strictly true, and it doesn't cover all medical expenses. It is not correct to say in the Netherlands you pay £1000 a year and all your medical expenses are covered. It is also incorrect to say £1000 a year is cheaper than national insurance. NI contributions are means tested so someone on a low income will pay less than £1000 a year. The beauty of the NHS is it is free to all no exceptions.

[Foxdiamond]

10 minutes ago, Bryn said:

 

In fairness this isn't because of bed pressures for the most part. In almost all domains prolonged hospitalisation has a detrimental effects on health outcomes. It's convenient for the people pushing the money around that it is nearly always medically justifiable to boot people out of hospital the second they are well enough.

 

Let's also be absolutely clear that this is no different in other countries. In the US the hospital will let you stay to the precise second your extortionate insurance permits and not a second longer, and that's despite you paying a huge deductible.

Thank you Bryn. It just an observation of mine from years ago compared to today. I quite understand that the modern emphasis is based on good medical practice. Just as new parents back in the day I think it helped my wife adjust to the new life. I do recall that couldn't wait to have them home.