The NHS (National Health Service) Thread

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I don't reckon Toddy was Moose - not sure about Foxin.

 

I always thought Rogstanley was more Moose material myself 

 

Yeah, but Kofwotsit is speculating that toddy and foxin were the same person so...

 

Rog was Moose - try and keep up, bro. 

[bovril]

I think we are all truly Moose. 

[Buce]

23 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think we are all truly Moose. 

 

It would certainly explain a few things. 

[Wymsey]

Am not at all surprised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62161607

 

Such an under-appreciated provider at times, and know quite a few abuse/have abused the system.

 

As well as managing such backlogs in reducing waiting times, personally think that the NHS could also benefit in being privatised to boost staff morale (I.e., better working conditions in places) amongst other things.

 

Much-needed changes and concerns have been known for a long time, and the above news makes the above business model unsustainable.

Edited 14 July 2022 by Wymsey

[z-layrex]

Leaving the NHS has been the best career move I could have made. Better pay, better hours, nicer conditions, funded courses and education I could never get on the NHS etc.

 

My Dad's just been given a 52 week wait to even see a consultant about cataract surgery. The place I'm working at will do it for a discount (the surgeon even agreed to do the consultancy for free), trying to convince him to spend the money. When I go for drinks with my old team they tell me it's worse than ever moral-wise, everyone quitting, mainly due to unsafe staffing levels and poor pay.

Edited 14 July 2022 by z-layrex

[leicsmac]

On the one side, every institution has to change with the times and needs reform as required.

 

On the other, the second enters crippling debt on account of a medical bill or is refused treatment due to some insurance snafu or even based on their basic ability to pay, that institution has failed in its most basic premise. And that's what I fear when the words "privatisation" are bandied around

 

Hopefully, a balance may be struck.

[adam1]

Was the NHS this bad 12 years ago?

 

No.

 

The NHS doesn't need to change, this country needs to wake up and understand what benefits them as a whole and not the agenda a few people are pushing.

 

Private healthcare like the american system being proposed in some quarters is brilliantly effective....

 

 

[Samilktray]

I started working in the NHS earlier this year and it’s been a real eye opener tbf

[Parafox]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

On the one side, every institution has to change with the times and needs reform as required.

 

On the other, the second enters crippling debt on account of a medical bill or is refused treatment due to some insurance snafu or even based on their basic ability to pay, that institution has failed in its most basic premise. And that's what I fear when the words "privatisation" are bandied around

 

Hopefully, a balance may be struck.

Means testing?

[Parafox]

I am proud to have worked for the NHS in my 32 year paramedic career and I have seen how it has changed as medicine, technology, surgery, diagnostic and treatment techniques etc. have advanced. Those advances cost money, a lot of money. Even the ambulances these days are light years ahead of what they were when I started, as are the skill sets and levels of expertise of ambulance crews. All advancements in any industry costs money. Sadly the NHS is a money pit and that will always be the case. Inevitably, IMO, it will be unsustainable in it's current form.

Maybe "free at the point of need" should be the epithet. So, you need emergency treatment for say, a cardiac issue. You go to the nearest A&E or the ambulance takes you to Glenfield General's cardiac admissions unit, you get diagnosed and are successfully treated. You get discharged with follow up appointments as required. Should you then pay towards those appointments as, effectively, you've been treated "free at the point of need" because it was an emergency at that time? 

Then again, what if I'm 85, I have a fall and fracture my hip. I'll get emergency treatment at the point of need and hopefully, a replacement. A prosthetic hip joint costs a fair amount, never mind the cost of the surgical process. Should I pay for that? I'm a pensioner. If Mick Jagger fell and fractured his hip he'd hypothetically be entitled to free hospital care (I know he wouldn't take that choice but, initially, he'd get the same ambulance response and treatment in A&E as you or I would).

It's a minefield. There's no straightforward way forward but I do think part payment via insurance could be what happens. 

 

 

BTW If you need bigger/smaller tits, the surgical removal of excessive fat after you've lost 12 stone or a new nasal profile pay for them. Don't burden the NHS with this "body dysmorphia" bollox.

Edited 14 July 2022 by Parafox

[weller54]

Do I take this further?......

Last July I needed urgent medical care after experiencing awful pain, high temperature and chills. My wife drove me to Lincoln A &E. On route I had passed out and when awake was vomiting... I was very ill.

On arrival at hospital I was seen quite quickly as I was going in and out of consciousness.

The doctor asked me my symptoms and I told him I was pretty sure it was my gallbladder (as I knew I had gallstones from a scan many years previously).. he didn't really listen, but went ahead with ECG/blood test/ ultrasound of my aorta!

I was sent away a couple of hours later with no medication or answers.

The next day I went to see my GP as temp was still high and pain remained. They put me on a high dose of antibiotics.

A week or so later I felt much better.

GP organised an ultrasound appointment, which I had done about 6 months later, that just confirmed gallstones.

I was put on the list for gallbladder removal surgery.

Last week I finally had the procedure.

...my surgeon told me my gallbladder was in a mess and had previously been perforated!! He said it had to be scraped out.

The misdiagnosis of a serious gallbladder issue at Lincoln A & E in July last year could have easily cost me my life as perforation can lead to sepsis if left untreated!

Is there a case to be answered here?

[Nalis]

8 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Do I take this further?......

Last July I needed urgent medical care after experiencing awful pain, high temperature and chills. My wife drove me to Lincoln A &E. On route I had passed out and when awake was vomiting... I was very ill.

On arrival at hospital I was seen quite quickly as I was going in and out of consciousness.

The doctor asked me my symptoms and I told him I was pretty sure it was my gallbladder (as I knew I had gallstones from a scan many years previously).. he didn't really listen, but went ahead with ECG/blood test/ ultrasound of my aorta!

I was sent away a couple of hours later with no medication or answers.

The next day I went to see my GP as temp was still high and pain remained. They put me on a high dose of antibiotics.

A week or so later I felt much better.

GP organised an ultrasound appointment, which I had done about 6 months later, that just confirmed gallstones.

I was put on the list for gallbladder removal surgery.

Last week I finally had the procedure.

...my surgeon told me my gallbladder was in a mess and had previously been perforated!! He said it had to be scraped out.

The misdiagnosis of a serious gallbladder issue at Lincoln A & E in July last year could have easily cost me my life as perforation can lead to sepsis if left untreated!

Is there a case to be answered here?

Probably worth complaining so they can improve the system if anything and increase awareness.

 

[weller54]

7 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Probably worth complaining so they can improve the system if anything and increase awareness.

 

Yes, I'm not looking for financial compensation... just an acknowledgement that the care I received wasn't good enough. It may help someone else in the future.

[Crinklyfox]

12 hours ago, weller54 said:

Do I take this further?......

Last July I needed urgent medical care after experiencing awful pain, high temperature and chills. My wife drove me to Lincoln A &E. On route I had passed out and when awake was vomiting... I was very ill.

On arrival at hospital I was seen quite quickly as I was going in and out of consciousness.

The doctor asked me my symptoms and I told him I was pretty sure it was my gallbladder (as I knew I had gallstones from a scan many years previously).. he didn't really listen, but went ahead with ECG/blood test/ ultrasound of my aorta!

I was sent away a couple of hours later with no medication or answers.

The next day I went to see my GP as temp was still high and pain remained. They put me on a high dose of antibiotics.

A week or so later I felt much better.

GP organised an ultrasound appointment, which I had done about 6 months later, that just confirmed gallstones.

I was put on the list for gallbladder removal surgery.

Last week I finally had the procedure.

...my surgeon told me my gallbladder was in a mess and had previously been perforated!! He said it had to be scraped out.

The misdiagnosis of a serious gallbladder issue at Lincoln A & E in July last year could have easily cost me my life as perforation can lead to sepsis if left untreated!

Is there a case to be answered here?

I've been misdiagnosed by A&E before now.  I'm not being critical, the doctors there were probably doing their best under a lot of pressure and can't be expected to get everything right every time.  The thing that troubles me with your message is that you were sent away with no medication or answers.  The medication I can understand as it would be reckless to prescribe medication without a diagnosis but what you needed was that diagnosis.  If they sent you away without giving you their considerations as to what was causing your pain or a referral for further tests I would consider that you'd received an inadequate service and that you would be doing the right thing to make the hospital aware.  You could be highlighting an issue which, if not addressed, could cause worse outcomes than necessary for future patients.  If there are a number of 'near misses' with an inherent problem then that can be an indication that a more serious problem is likely.

[Parafox]

Statement issued by the AACE specifically around Ambulance response delays:

 

Full statement published by AACE on UK ambulance services pressures

 

You will undoubtedly be aware of the current and ongoing media coverage relating to the pressures being experienced by EMAS and other UK ambulance services, and the impact hospital handover delays are having on our patients and colleagues.

 

In addition to our Communications team’s work with local media, the Association of Ambulance Chief Executives (AACE) has released a statement addressing the current challenges being faced, and I wanted to ensure you had the chance to read it in full.

 

AACE Managing Director Martin Flaherty OBE QAM said:

 

"Firstly we must recognise the never-ending hard work and dedication of the NHS ambulance sector's staff who are doing their utmost to continue responding to patients when they need us most.

 

"However, the current pressures on the ambulance service are unprecedented and have been building for some time. The ultimate safety net for the NHS is the fact that patients who are severely ill or injured can access an emergency ambulance in a timeframe appropriate to their clinical condition. That safety net is now severely compromised and sadly patients are dying and coming to harm as a result on a daily basis.

 

"The single biggest issue impacting the ambulance sector's ability to respond appropriately is unprecedented delays handing over patients at hospital. AACE has been raising these concerns for months and published the first ever report into the harm being caused in November 2021. Since then the situation has continued to deteriorate and is having an intolerable impact on our patients and our staff.

 

"AACE accepts that the root cause of these problems is system issues relating to patient flow and that they will require system solutions. That said, it is clear that these system solutions involving both health and social care will take years to fully implement. It simply cannot be acceptable to allow the ambulance service to be compromised to the current extent, day after day, while those solutions are introduced.

 

"The answer is not simple but it is straightforward. Hospitals and their supporting system partners must find a way of creating and staffing additional capacity to take ambulance patients into the hospital as soon as the ambulance arrives. 

 

"The NHS has a proud record of rising to the most challenging situations and has proved this during the pandemic. It must do so again now and this will require clear leadership from the Secretary of State for Health, other ministers and from NHSE/I Directors to ensure that this is made to happen. 

 

"It will require difficult decisions to be made about competing priorities but we must remember that the single biggest risk to patients in the NHS now is associated with not being able to get an emergency ambulance to a patient in the right timeframe. 

 

"That risk is almost entirely borne by ambulance trusts and that is not right and cannot be allowed to continue. The problem is not intractable and many hospital systems display the leadership and focus required to manage ambulance handovers well. However, many others do not, and that leadership ethos that says we do not tolerate handover delays must be fostered in every hospital.

 

"Finally we are aware of the intolerable impact this is having on our staff who are caring for patients hour after hour in queues at hospital, attending patients who have waited far too long for an ambulance to arrive or having to watch significant numbers of calls stacking in emergency call centres with no available resource to dispatch. It is impacting significantly on their health and wellbeing and their ongoing education. It is driving staff to leave the service in greater numbers and is damaging the profession when we desperately need those staff to stay, develop and thrive.

 

"AACE and its members is committed to doing everything in its power to work with system partners to resolve these issues but more needs to be done quickly to create the capacity to eliminate these handover delays once and for all, if we are to return to being able to provide the levels of service that patients should expect."

[foxile5]

Anyone who thinks privatisation would be anything but detrimental for the common man and profitable for the elite is deluded. 

 

The only reason it is being suggested is so that the Tory Party members and friends can dip their beaks into the lucrative world of financed sickness. 

 

The American model is horrendous and that's the one we'll look to ape.

[Captain...]

I had not had much cause to use the NHS until we had kids, apart from the obvious pregnancy and delivery care. Which costs on average $18,000, or just $3,000 if you have insurance in the US. Both of our kids have had health issues, one life threatening but now in the past, the other has an ongoing manageable condition that will require daily medication. In all the bad news and tough decisions at no point did money ever have to come into it. I just can't imagine being told that my child is ill and having to work out if we can afford the treatment or weigh up the risks of a more affordable but riskier or not as effective treatment. The NHS as a whole is an amazing thing to have and whilst not perfect it needs to be supported and protected. We are so lucky to have it.

[foxile5]

21 hours ago, Captain... said:

I had not had much cause to use the NHS until we had kids, apart from the obvious pregnancy and delivery care. Which costs on average $18,000, or just $3,000 if you have insurance in the US. Both of our kids have had health issues, one life threatening but now in the past, the other has an ongoing manageable condition that will require daily medication. In all the bad news and tough decisions at no point did money ever have to come into it. I just can't imagine being told that my child is ill and having to work out if we can afford the treatment or weigh up the risks of a more affordable but riskier or not as effective treatment. The NHS as a whole is an amazing thing to have and whilst not perfect it needs to be supported and protected. We are so lucky to have it.

I'm so glad it's there for you and that your children have been taken care of. 

 

I'd go one further on protecting it. The rhetoric should be that we expect and demand it. The list of countries with free and universal health care is in the majority. 

 

We shouldn't allow the rhetoric to shift to that of a request. The large portion of the world aren't having this discussion. It should be a pre-requisite of any government. We shouldn't barter over a backwards step. 

[Eurofox]

Private medical insurance in the Netherlands costs £1000 a year.

which is way cheaper than national insurance 

[Claridge]

NHS is fairly average at best, people always waffle on about it being better than America, Never hear people mention many of the other countries in the world/Europe that seem to have a far better system to us.

No way would anyone start the health service up now, but no politician dare suggest changes

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Claridge said:

NHS is fairly average at best, people always waffle on about it being better than America, Never hear people mention many of the other countries in the world/Europe that seem to have a far better system to us.

No way would anyone start the health service up now, but no politician dare suggest changes

Well, I do hope that is taken as the matter of fact that it is, and those countries do also have a nationalised healthcare system that ensures peoples health isn't predicated upon their ability to pay too, in that order.

[Foxdiamond]

11 minutes ago, Claridge said:

NHS is fairly average at best, people always waffle on about it being better than America, Never hear people mention many of the other countries in the world/Europe that seem to have a far better system to us.

No way would anyone start the health service up now, but no politician dare suggest changes

Possibly because some Tories would like us to be like the US. 

[kenny]

1 hour ago, Eurofox said:

Private medical insurance in the Netherlands costs £1000 a year.

which is way cheaper than national insurance 

Most of Europe has a private element to their healthcare system. The assumption is that you have either the NHS or the USA system, but most countries have somewhere in between.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, kenny said:

Most of Europe has a private element to their healthcare system. The assumption is that you have either the NHS or the USA system, but most countries have somewhere in between.

Yeah, that tends to be the argument. However, the idea that there will be a slippery slope from one to the other not stopping in between, given the comments of various political figures, is not entirely unfounded.

[kenny]

12 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah, that tends to be the argument. However, the idea that there will be a slippery slope from one to the other not stopping in between, given the comments of various political figures, is not entirely unfounded.

It hasn't happened yet and the Tories have been selling it for 80 years.

 

Why anyone would want it is a mystery