The NHS (National Health Service) Thread

[Wymsey]

Seems like a big topic on its own, and discussed many times in different threads over the last couple of months or so.

 

Should it remain free (funded by us) for patients?

 

What needs improving in general, and what should stay? etc

 

Feel free to merge if there is such a thread, or on the Current Events bit, mods.

Edited 14 March 2016 by Wymeswold fox

[Fox92]

A wonderful service that is currently under-funded and over-worked.

 

There's too much management. Get rid of those - who just fill in paperwork. 

[Jon the Hat]

Lets be clear, the NHS is not a wonderful service, and by pretending it is you are blocking it from becoming one.

 

What it is a mix of:

Outstanding professionals trying their best to deliver wonderful service

Underfunding, driven at least partly by huge waste of the existing spending

Terrible mismanagement & lack of accountability in many places

Wasteful processes all over the place

Political and media interference, amid the fact that you cannot have a sensible debate about the NHS without being branded anti NHS evil scum

Union interference leading to the inability to remove incompetent and sometimes dangerous staff

Short termism failing to provide enough doctors and nurses through domestic training

Stop gap internationally trained professionals with mixed abilities and English skills which impact care

Institutional resistance to change that has been shown to work, including private service provision

The hang over of poorly negotiated PFI investments

Failure to align decision making with community care services in a uniform way to prevent bed blocking

Failure to separate national health improvement programs which will deliver long terms benefits to the NHS from current funding

Stupid decisions to withdraw care from those who are willing to self fund certain treatments due to some utopian socialist ideology that if everyone cant have it then no one can

 

Arrgh the list goes on.  I have a headache now.

[SMX11]

It needs radical reform of its funding model. Unfortunately it is politically impossible to do so as it has replaced reglion for a lot of people. If you talk against it you are instantly attacked.

[m4DD0gg]

I have done a lot of IT work for the NHS, talk about setting fire to a pile of money.

 

Although the same could be said for any public sector IT infrastructure.

[leicsmac]

It's hamstrung by bureaucracy, as is any other organisation its size. That leads to a whole group of attendant problems that do need fixing. It's not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination. However...where reform is needed, it needs to be applied carefully, and in a targetted fashion. Reform is needed, but in very specific areas.

 

And...show me a healthcare service anywhere in the world that is able to serve upwards of 60 million people with similar results, providing them at least a basic standard of care without leaving them with a lifetime of debt no matter their bank balance, and I'll advocate changing the NHS to follow.

 

 

It needs radical reform of its funding model. Unfortunately it is politically impossible to do so as it has replaced reglion for a lot of people. If you talk against it you are instantly attacked.

 

If you're talking about funding reform in a way that would mean the NHS cannot help everyone with major concerns in at least a reasonably timely fashion, then you deserve to be attacked.

 

What kind of funding reform are you advocating?

[Bellend Sebastian]

The second time my missus was pregnant we had to have a scan and a special test because we're, well, a bit old and that.

Although after a while they did agree that we'd made an appointment, they hadn't a clue why we were there, did half the stuff they were supposed to (not helped by some of the equipment not working) so we had to go back in again for them to finish the job, which they did under some duress.

I was sat there, moaning blind, I can tell you, about bloody NHS bureaucracy, bloody NHS inefficiency, all those bloody NHS managers earning megabucks, until I remembered that we weren't in an NHS facility but were in fact in a Harley Street clinic for which we'd paid £600 for the privilege.

The reception area was well posh, the receptionist herself gorgeous, and presumably the whole operation profitable, and that's the main thing

Edited 15 March 2016 by Bellend Sebastian

[Fox92]

Lets be clear, the NHS is not a wonderful service, and by pretending it is you are blocking it from becoming one.

 

What it is a mix of:

Outstanding professionals trying their best to deliver wonderful service

Underfunding, driven at least partly by huge waste of the existing spending

Terrible mismanagement & lack of accountability in many places

Wasteful processes all over the place

Political and media interference, amid the fact that you cannot have a sensible debate about the NHS without being branded anti NHS evil scum

Union interference leading to the inability to remove incompetent and sometimes dangerous staff

Short termism failing to provide enough doctors and nurses through domestic training

Stop gap internationally trained professionals with mixed abilities and English skills which impact care

Institutional resistance to change that has been shown to work, including private service provision

The hang over of poorly negotiated PFI investments

Failure to align decision making with community care services in a uniform way to prevent bed blocking

Failure to separate national health improvement programs which will deliver long terms benefits to the NHS from current funding

Stupid decisions to withdraw care from those who are willing to self fund certain treatments due to some utopian socialist ideology that if everyone cant have it then no one can

 

Arrgh the list goes on.  I have a headache now.

 

I meant in terms of what it was set up for. Throughout history, a wonderful service. A lot has changed over time though and I agree with what you've stated there.

[Finnegan]

I have done a lot of IT work for the NHS, talk about setting fire to a pile of money.

Although the same could be said for any public sector IT infrastructure.

This this this.

[Bellend Sebastian]

I have done a lot of IT work for the NHS, talk about setting fire to a pile of money.

 

Although the same could be said for any public sector IT infrastructure.

 

I'm not going to tell you how much they were billed when my missus (who works for the NHS, I might add) got a laptop - and it's a shit laptop - because, well, I don't think people would believe me for a start.

 

Whoever signed the contract for the supply of them wants shooting (and then made to pay for their care privately)

[MPH]

Now i am a big fan on the American health service. It's quality is great, yes its privatized so you have to pay for it but thats a whole different discussion.

 

 

 

 

Privatization only works when there is competition. Otherwise it ONLY becomes about making money and nothing else. I see no logical reason that privatization will make the NHS any better.

 

 

 

If someone doesn't like the hospital i work in, well there is a very good competitor 15 miles down the road that they can go to. It's a huge motivation for my bosses to make sure i give excellent care every time, to make sure we are well staffed and to make sure patients have a positive experience with as ( as positive as possible). Right now the only thing that is keeping the NHS from being completely overwhelmed is the goodwill and good intentions of the staff and believe me, having worked in the NHS for years that can be completely washed away by being understaffed and overworked.

 

 

The NHS has GOT to be funded properly for it to work properly, but be prepared for higher taxes for that to happen.

Edited 15 March 2016 by MPH

[m4DD0gg]

This this this.

 

 

I'm not going to tell you how much they were billed when my missus (who works for the NHS, I might add) got a laptop - and it's a shit laptop - because, well, I don't think people would believe me for a start.

 

Whoever signed the contract for the supply of them wants shooting (and then made to pay for their care privately)

 

Tip of the iceberg i can promise you, i know one nhs trust who paid for a piece of work and the incumbent RFC'd them for the same thing 12 months later and they paid!! 

 

Also all the middle management in the particular trusts had PA's

Edited 15 March 2016 by m4DD0gg

[Claridge]

A wonderful service that is currently under-funded and over-worked.

 

There's too much management. Get rid of those - who just fill in paperwork.

It's how the money is spent,not the under-funding. Someone I know gets paid a travel allowance because they had to move offices.

Grove park to thurmaston. Would be interesting to know how much per capita the nhs costs and how that relates to other countries.a non biased account if it's possible to find one

[Jon the Hat]

As a finance director, I really cant tell you how much I would love to get cracking in the NHS.  The problem being it is nearly impossible to get rid of anyone with the unions so embedded, and the media obsessed with the cost of redundancies.  In my experience they are almost militant at not actually moving anyone on, the most incompetent people just sort of cruise along for ever.  Nightmare.

[Jon the Hat]

It's how the money is spent,not the under-funding. Someone I know gets paid a travel allowance because they had to move offices.

Grove park to thurmaston. Would be interesting to know how much per capita the nhs costs and how that relates to other countries.a non biased account if it's possible to find one

 

Another great example.  That is union crap, the NHS cant change themselves to be more efficient because the unions have power, and the media and public buys whatever crap they come out with - touch anything in the NHS, even the most obvious waste - and you are anti NHS and politically toxic.  ****ing crazy shit.

[act smiley]

It's how the money is spent,not the under-funding. Someone I know gets paid a travel allowance because they had to move offices.

Grove park to thurmaston. Would be interesting to know how much per capita the nhs costs and how that relates to other countries.a non biased account if it's possible to find one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

OECD stats. 19th, $3235. People being critical of the NHS compare it to the Dutch - $5217. The US is top at $8713. That's total spend rather than just the NHS, but there's a public/private breakdown graph half way down the page - the US spend more per capita on public healthcare (that Medicare & Medicaid stuff) that doesn't even cover everyone than the UK spends in total.

Edited 15 March 2016 by act smiley

[sphericalfox]

Another great example.  That is union crap, the NHS cant change themselves to be more efficient because the unions have power, and the media and public buys whatever crap they come out with - touch anything in the NHS, even the most obvious waste - and you are anti NHS and politically toxic.  ****ing crazy shit.

what a load of bollux

[Buce]

Tories 'deceiving public with accounting tricks':

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/21/bma-doctors-accuse-tories-lying-extra-10bn-support-nhs-england

The nasty party never went away - they just got cleverer.

[Rincewind]

You cannot fool all the people all the time. Just fooling some of them is enough.

Edited 21 March 2016 by Rincewind

[Jon the Hat]

Tories 'deceiving public with accounting tricks':

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/21/bma-doctors-accuse-tories-lying-extra-10bn-support-nhs-england

The nasty party never went away - they just got cleverer.

 

What a crap article.  The BMA should stick to medicine, as they are clearly rather lost in the world of government funding.

[sphericalfox]

What a crap article.  The BMA should stick to medicine, as they are clearly rather lost in the world of government funding.

 

It's exceptionally accurate.

[Bryn]

What a crap article. The BMA should stick to medicine, as they are clearly rather lost in the world of government funding.

Unsurprisingly, given how fvcking wooly it is. The Government could tell me the sea is wet and I'd double check.

[DB11]

Every time I see this thread title it makes me smile that you felt the need to expand the NHS acronym

[Guest MattP]

Every time I see this thread title it makes me smile that you felt the need to expand the NHS acronym

 

We clearly have a similar sense of humour, makes me chuckle everytime I see it as well.

[Wymsey]

Didn't want to confuse anyone thinking it was to do with the National Household Survey or Neighbourhood Housing Services.