The NHS (National Health Service) Thread

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, Lcfcbl said:

Why are people so against paying to look after their health? I spent around £20 on two prescriptions recently. My mate said "why are you paying when the smackheads get the methadone for free?"

I understand the point but I've just spent the equivalent amount of money to a round in a pub or a Domino's delivery to protect or better my health.

What is more important?

I think we are so used to having it for "free" (it's not free, it has to be paid for in some way i.e taxation) that people forget what's really important in life.

£20 is nothing to you and me but some people don't have £20 to spare. Ultimately we do all pay for the NHS but if we follow a US model of pay per use then take a look at some of those costs:

 

https://www.internationalinsurance.com/resources/healthcare-costs-in-the-usa.php

 

Again people like me and probably you can afford decent insurance or get a job with decent health insurance package. Not everyone can, particularly the elderly where their costs increase exponentially and so do their premiums. The health insurance racket in the US is particularly exploitative and there are many stories of people being diagnosed with something very serious and it not being covered by their policy, or their premiums at the next renewal goes up massively. As I've stated previously being able to make difficult decisions about our own and our loved ones health without having to consider financial costs is an amazing thing.

[Raj]

We keep comparing our system to America but surely there are other successful models in European countries we can compare to?

[leicsmac]

42 minutes ago, Raj said:

We keep comparing our system to America but surely there are other successful models in European countries we can compare to?

I'm sure that there are, but since when are the ones with power who want reform talking about those models and not the American one?

[kenny]

16 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm sure that there are, but since when are the ones with power who want reform talking about those models and not the American one?

Always seems to be the ones not in power talking about the American health system.

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, kenny said:

Always seems to be the ones not in power talking about the American health system.

.... because some of the ones with power are.

 

Though this is now a bit of a circular argument.

 

But, in all seriousness, if folks want to examine other systems (the Korean one isn't half bad, actually) and see how the NHS might take things from them to improve then fair enough, but pardon me for lacking faith in the current government when it comes to profit over ensuring good health outcomes for everyone when there's so much bank to be potentially made from it as per over the pond.

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, Raj said:

We keep comparing our system to America but surely there are other successful models in European countries we can compare to?

Because this is the uk, when privatisation comes it will involve pure profit, just like the yanks do. Look at our rail system for comparison, costs about £8 to go 10 miles down the road. Unlike the European system where it’s actually fair. Our privatised model will be an absolute money machine 

[Raj]

3 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Because this is the uk, when privatisation comes it will involve pure profit, just like the yanks do. Look at our rail system for comparison, costs about £8 to go 10 miles down the road. Unlike the European system where it’s actually fair. Our privatised model will be an absolute money machine 

And the powers that be let the systems collapse then think they are justified when they fo go privatised as the public think " its gotta be better than the sh1t we had"

[Raj]

LRI wards are refusing to allow visitors in atm due to covid outbreaks. (Ward 30)

[Foxdiamond]

8 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Because this is the uk, when privatisation comes it will involve pure profit, just like the yanks do. Look at our rail system for comparison, costs about £8 to go 10 miles down the road. Unlike the European system where it’s actually fair. Our privatised model will be an absolute money machine 

As Mr Dempsey from the RMT said we need a readjustment  The country should be run for the benefit of the people not for the exorbitant profits of the big corporations.

[Wymsey]

There's a rumour going around in my hospital trust that some doctors are thinking about striking over pay.

[Free Falling Foxes]

13 hours ago, Lcfcbl said:

Why are people so against paying to look after their health? I spent around £20 on two prescriptions recently. My mate said "why are you paying when the smackheads get the methadone for free?"

I understand the point but I've just spent the equivalent amount of money to a round in a pub or a Domino's delivery to protect or better my health.

What is more important?

I think we are so used to having it for "free" (it's not free, it has to be paid for in some way i.e taxation) that people forget what's really important in life.

My dentist changed to private practice only, about 6 years ago. I switched to an NHS one.

No complaints about the treatment I've received since there but in all the time I've been going, I've only witnessed just 2 others pay for their treatment.

Whilst in the waiting room I've seen a fair few people come and go and estimate well over 90% do not pay or at least claim free treatment.

 

[Foxdiamond]

33 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

My dentist changed to private practice only, about 6 years ago. I switched to an NHS one.

No complaints about the treatment I've received since there but in all the time I've been going, I've only witnessed just 2 others pay for their treatment.

Whilst in the waiting room I've seen a fair few people come and go and estimate well over 90% do not pay or at least claim free treatment.

 

I use a NHS dentist (and pay) There is free treatment for those that qualify for certain benefits so guess of lot of people in your surgery fall into these categories. I suppose we should be grateful our income is not so low.

[Daggers]

23 hours ago, Raj said:

When i took my dad A+E on tuesday I'd  say 50% was people who havent looked after themselves or helped themselves in this situation I.e obese, smokers(there were loads of smokers who'd  nip out for a fag whilst still waiting to be seen, 3 hand cuffed prisoners assisted by coppers, and even a fee "high on drugs or alcohol" as they were overly hobby to the receptionists. The other 50% were elderly, genuine people just waiting for care.

 

I've worked for over 30 years, dont smoke , dont drink and try and look after myself.

Ive had one shoulder operation  done at spires in oadby via the NHS as they could accommodate me quicker.

I'd gladly move to private if I dont have to pay for the nhs. 

Give me any surplus money I've paid over the years and I'll go private and pay.

I'm sure others would do this to help the NHS  get back to its feet, then see what your left with.

 

Who needs doctors and triage nursing staff when we can have you to make diagnoses - you could save the NHS a fortune by writing off half the population based on your unique ability to assess the legitimacy of others’ ailments. Heaven forbid you may have overlooked some hidden conditions - or that the NHS drives down costs due to its buying power, rendering price per capita lower than that of the USA where people are rendered bankrupt or homeless.

 

[Raj]

29 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Who needs doctors and triage nursing staff when we can have you to make diagnoses - you could save the NHS a fortune by writing off half the population based on your unique ability to assess the legitimacy of others’ ailments. Heaven forbid you may have overlooked some hidden conditions - or that the NHS drives down costs due to its buying power, rendering price per capita lower than that of the USA where people are rendered bankrupt or homeless.

 

Thanks!

[weller54]

Another Brexit gift?

There was a staffing crisis before Covid before someone blames that!

Bozo promised 40 Brand new Hospitals didn't he?.. how are they going to be staffed then?... Remember the hundreds of millions spent on The Nightingale Hospitals!!?... never used because they couldn't staff them!!

[yorkie1999]

11 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Another Brexit gift?

There was a staffing crisis before Covid before someone blames that!

Bozo promised 40 Brand new Hospitals didn't he?.. how are they going to be staffed then?... Remember the hundreds of millions spent on The Nightingale Hospitals!!?... never used because they couldn't staff them!!

Thing is, the torries could't privatise the nhs if it were the best in the world! 

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, weller54 said:

Another Brexit gift?

There was a staffing crisis before Covid before someone blames that!

Bozo promised 40 Brand new Hospitals didn't he?.. how are they going to be staffed then?... Remember the hundreds of millions spent on The Nightingale Hospitals!!?... never used because they couldn't staff them!!

 

.....in response to which, to pursue her low tax & small state utopia, Truss wants to reverse the increase in N.I. contributions designed to provide £12bn of extra funding to address the post-Covid NHS crisis (and social care, in theory, but that's unlikely to ever happen).

[Daggers]

3 hours ago, weller54 said:

Another Brexit gift?

There was a staffing crisis before Covid before someone blames that!

Bozo promised 40 Brand new Hospitals didn't he?.. how are they going to be staffed then?... Remember the hundreds of millions spent on The Nightingale Hospitals!!?... never used because they couldn't staff them!!

Wife used to do one 24hr senior manager on call (SMOC) shift per month.

 

Then Covid came and she had to do two as one was dedicated to that.

 

She is currently running at one per week on top of her usual work due to covering staff absence. Last week she had to do two meaning her normal workload was supposed to be sorted over Tues to Thurs.

 

Because of a lack of beds, she spends each one of these SMOC shifts being shouted at by staff because she doesn't have a magic wand or sworn at by members of the public who don't appreciate the situation. Then, when she goes in to work the following day, her line manager admonishes her for not having completed reports from her day-2-day workload.

 

The situation is impossible. She's in pieces. It's wrecked her life and almost done for our marriage.

 

Time was, she used to win awards for her work - I very much doubt she'll still be in the NHS come 2023.

[brucey]

On 24/07/2022 at 20:39, Wymsey said:

There's a rumour going around in my hospital trust that some doctors are thinking about striking over pay.

Protest in London today - ongoing BMA campaign for pay restoration called DoctorsVote.

Any potential strike is still very far away (and I doubt it will accomplish much anyway...)

[Col city fan]

16 hours ago, weller54 said:

Another Brexit gift?

There was a staffing crisis before Covid before someone blames that!

Bozo promised 40 Brand new Hospitals didn't he?.. how are they going to be staffed then?... Remember the hundreds of millions spent on The Nightingale Hospitals!!?... never used because they couldn't staff them!!

Yet another example of where Bozo didn’t have a fookin clue.

Christ, this country has been resided over by such a rotten government for the past few years.

 

[Free Falling Foxes]

We rang the ward where a family member had been admitted for an update.

The chap we spoke to struggled to understand us. We said the name several times. In the end he said, 'You spell'.

We said 'A' 'L'.

'Sorry', he interrupted,  'You say first letter again'.

 

The NHS staffing crisis is such they now have staff on the ward who struggle with basic English.

It was an inconvenience for us, surely it's down right bloody dangerous for those being treated?

[Jon the Hat]

On 24/07/2022 at 16:57, Raj said:

We keep comparing our system to America but surely there are other successful models in European countries we can compare to?

Medicare in Australia seems pretty good.  You can choose to go to a bulk bill doctor / specialist / pathology lab and not be out of pocket, or you go to your choice of more expensive ones and pay the gap.  You are encouraged though tax incentives to take out private hospital insurance, and that creates a mix of public and private provision including Emergency (although most Ambulances seem to take you to public hospital unless you specify otherwise and I think for say serious trauma that would be the usual route). 

 

Most of the private providers appear to be not for profit.  If I call an ambulance, without insurance it costs about A$1000 to get to hospital, but if you have insurance cover ( a few pounds a week) or if you are receiving most benefits it is free.  Essentially maintains the free at point of use for those who need it, but expects those who can afford it to insure themselves or pay more tax (Medicare levy) to pay for it.  Insurance is WAY cheaper than in the US (about 25-35% of the cost as far as I can make our comparing what my old employer used to pay in the US to what I am paying here), and outcomes are good.

[Daggers]

The surprising thing is that those who claim to be able to pay more, and who are commenting that they experience an NHS in need of more, haven’t made a substantial donation to their local Trust. It’s almost like money isn’t really the issue for them, rather it’s about denying access to the people they don’t deem to be ill enough or have the ‘right’ illness.

[fox_up_north]

I had to visit hospital for an x ray yesterday. Between trying to find a parking space and the wait to be seen, I can imagine it's hell for patients and staff.

 

I'm also fairly sure there's studies which have shown the poorer you are, the more likely you need to use the NHS - due to a range of factors. The way I see it, it could be a lot better but it's also a great system and we need to preserve it. 

[Parafox]

20 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

We rang the ward where a family member had been admitted for an update.

The chap we spoke to struggled to understand us. We said the name several times. In the end he said, 'You spell'.

We said 'A' 'L'.

'Sorry', he interrupted,  'You say first letter again'.

 

The NHS staffing crisis is such they now have staff on the ward who struggle with basic English.

It was an inconvenience for us, surely it's down right bloody dangerous for those being treated?

Been like this for years. On occasion I've had to "pre-alert" A&E for a critically ill patient we were transporting on blue lights. It involved giving very important information about the patient's presenting condition, clinical obs, treatment given en-route etc. It was a nightmare at times