Conservatives

[Bryn]

Labour are a joke and capable of some equally reprehensible things.

[Alf Bentley]

. I'm not wound up Alf me old china, just constantly amazed at the amount of time, effort and passion that goes into political debate on here. I hope everyone enjoys the discussion but I just can't see what it all achieves apart from people venting their spleen. Maybe it's no different from the Leicester City threads in that respect. I don't vote and can't see the point in it all so I'm not qualified to join in. But I enjoy reading the views of the well informed on here. I'll continue 'lurking' from a distance if I may? Cheers

 

 

You may!   I actually assumed you were more bemused than irate!

 

I doubt anyone here seriously believes they're changing the world - or even one mind - by expressing their views. It's just fun and communication for the dozen of us who frequent this twilight zone and enjoy arguing.

 

Some enjoy standing at railway stations noting numbers. Others enjoy clipping their privet hedge and washing their car on a Sunday. Yet others enjoy leaping around the mosh pit at thrash metal gigs or dressing in nappies while a voluptuous, leather-clad dominatrix thrashes them to within an inch of their lives.....and then there are the real weirdos who spend their lives arguing about politics in a vacuum.

 

We're all a bunch of wankers, ultimately, just wankers with different interests.

 

As an aside, may I just express my appreciation for how the Americanized English recognised on this site means that you can write "willy puller" and "bollocks" without those words being replaced by asterisks? Life is good.

 

[Edit: Now that IS weird. The plural "wankers" has not been amended, but the singular "willy puller" ("w-anker") has been changed to "willy puller"....it's enough to make you pull your willy, I mean hair out!] 

[Buce]

You may! I actually assumed you were more bemused than irate!

I doubt anyone here seriously believes they're changing the world - or even one mind - by expressing their views. It's just fun and communication for the dozen of us who frequent this twilight zone and enjoy arguing.

Some enjoy standing at railway stations noting numbers. Others enjoy clipping their privet hedge and washing their car on a Sunday. Yet others enjoy leaping around the mosh pit at thrash metal gigs or dressing in nappies while a voluptuous, leather-clad dominatrix thrashes them to within an inch of their lives.....and then there are the real weirdos who spend their lives arguing about politics in a vacuum.

We're all a bunch of wankers, ultimately, just wankers with different interests.

As an aside, may I just express my appreciation for how the Americanized English recognised on this site means that you can write "willy puller" and "bollocks" without those words being replaced by asterisks? Life is good.

[Edit: Now that IS weird. The plural "wankers" has not been amended, but the singular "willy puller" ("w-anker") has been changed to "willy puller"....it's enough to make you pull your willy, I mean hair out!]

I'm pleased you managed to make one reference to the Tories, Alf..

[Izzy]

You may!   I actually assumed you were more bemused than irate!

 

I doubt anyone here seriously believes they're changing the world - or even one mind - by expressing their views. It's just fun and communication for the dozen of us who frequent this twilight zone and enjoy arguing.

 

Some enjoy standing at railway stations noting numbers. Others enjoy clipping their privet hedge and washing their car on a Sunday. Yet others enjoy leaping around the mosh pit at thrash metal gigs or dressing in nappies while a voluptuous, leather-clad dominatrix thrashes them to within an inch of their lives.....and then there are the real weirdos who spend their lives arguing about politics in a vacuum.

 

We're all a bunch of wankers, ultimately, just wankers with different interests.

 

As an aside, may I just express my appreciation for how the Americanized English recognised on this site means that you can write "willy puller" and "bollocks" without those words being replaced by asterisks? Life is good.

 

[Edit: Now that IS weird. The plural "wankers" has not been amended, but the singular "willy puller" ("w-anker") has been changed to "willy puller"....it's enough to make you pull your willy, I mean hair out!]

I like you Alf, you do make me laugh. I too am a willy puller. Not the train spotting or fence trimming type, but an addiction to golf is my wank of choice.

[atomicfox]

The eternal problem with the Tories is that they know the price of everything and the value of nothing,far to in love with big business to care about the average Joe,and I say that as being to the right of the argument 

[Rincewind]

This is live from Downing Street. Metro. No sign of the BBC ITV Sky news.

 

https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/videos/1039053892796565/

 

Correction it is not Downing Street.

[Guest]

This is live from Downing Street. Metro. No sign of the BBC ITV Sky news.

https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/videos/1039053892796565/

What was at the end of that link?

[Rincewind]

What was at the end of that link?

Live news coverage. Perhaps it has finished. It is on the Metro Facebook page. It is all peaceful so expect a front page headline in the Sun revealing horrific actions from left wing activists.

[Webbo]

Knobheads moaning about nothing, what were you expecting a newsflash?

[Thracian]

The eternal problem with the Tories is that they know the price of everything and the value of nothing,far to in love with big business to care about the average Joe,and I say that as being to the right of the argument 

 

 

You reckon? We must know different Tories. Your comment reminded me more of Blair than any Tory. 

[Thracian]

When will people understand that it's not the level of wages that counts it's what the wages will buy. You can put wages up tenfold but that's no good if the cost of living goes up 15-fold.

 

In another words if a government  wrecks the economy with reckless or irresponsible spending there's nothing left to maintain standards and they either drop or go deeper into debt until the whole house of cards falls in.

 

Labour talk about changing and running a credible economy but it's like Aston Villa talking about avoiding relegation - hardly anyone outside their own camp believes them because they always act as if someone else will pick up the tab. 

[Bryn]

I don't see there's much evidence a government has ever done that, I think most people who vote Tory just hate the idea of having to look after the rest of society. Didn't the entire global market crash, not just ours?

[Webbo]

I don't see there's much evidence a government has ever done that, I think most people who vote Tory just hate the idea of having to look after the rest of society. Didn't the entire global market crash, not just ours?

Will you agree to work Saturdays for the same wages as the rest of the week so we can look after more of society for the same money?

[Bryn]

Damn, you out-trolled me.

[Rincewind]

Knobheads moaning about nothing, what were you expecting a newsflash?

That is the Mail headline sorted. Just add Islamic illegal immigrants  in front of it.

[Rincewind]

I don't see there's much evidence a government has ever done that, I think most people who vote Tory just hate the idea of having to look after the rest of society. Didn't the entire global market crash, not just ours?

Also I do not think junior doctors, teachers, plumbers, decorators or even your local road-sweeper caused it.

[Guest Sharpe's Fox]

Still can't believe anyone who is just slightly politically engaged believes Labour "caused" the economic crash. Especially when beforehand Gideon both promised to match Labour public spending as well as further deregulation of the banking sector.

[Webbo]

Still can't believe anyone who is just slightly politically engaged believes Labour "caused" the economic crash. Especially when beforehand Gideon both promised to match Labour public spending as well as further deregulation of the banking sector.

Gordon Brown told us he'd abolished boom and bust, the problem was he actually believed it. Labour claimed to be Keynesian but increased the deficit while they should have been running a surplus. If they had run the economy in a responsible way all this so call austerity wouldn't be necessary.

[Guest Sharpe's Fox]

Gordon Brown told us he'd abolished boom and bust, the problem was he actually believed it. Labour claimed to be Keynesian but increased the deficit while they should have been running a surplus. If they had run the economy in a responsible way all this so call austerity wouldn't be necessary.

New Labour did create the opportunity for the banking crisis to do lasting damage you're right, but it was triggered by the collapse of the U.S. property market and the point I was making is that a Cameron government in 2008 would have seen a similar if not worse effect if what Osbourne said his plan on public spending was at that point was true.

It seems you don't understand that Cameron's Conservative party are the exact same neoliberal social democrats as Blair's New Labour.

[Alf Bentley]

Gordon Brown told us he'd abolished boom and bust, the problem was he actually believed it. Labour claimed to be Keynesian but increased the deficit while they should have been running a surplus. If they had run the economy in a responsible way all this so call austerity wouldn't be necessary.

 

This makes for interesting reading, particularly if you correlate the graph to the government that was in power...

 

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_deficit_analysis

 

UK Deficit Since World War II

Chart D.03t: UK Deficit Since 1947

The UK deficit started out in 1947 at 3 percent of GDP and then immediately went into surplus, as the Attlee government worked to reduce the huge debt racked up in World War II. The surplus peaked at 6.3 percent of GDP in 1950 and then declined to a surplus of 0.9 percent GDP in 1961.

But then surpluses started to climb again reaching 7.6 percent GDP in 1970 during the Wilson government before declining sharply. The UK scored a deficit of 0.1 percent GDP in 1975 for the first time in nearly 20 years.

The UK ran a budget deficit till the end of the Thatcher years, with a peak of 2.2 percent of GDP in 1981. In the mid to late 1980s deficits declined, and went into surplus in 1989 at 1.9 percent GDP.

Deficits returned in the Major years and the ERM crisis, reaching 5.7 percent GDP in 1994. But then the deficit came down and went into surplus, maxing out at a surplus of 2.3 percent GDP in 2001.

Moderate deficits were the rule in the mid 2000s Blair years. But the deficit rocketed upwards to 6.9 percent in 2010 in response to the Crash of 2008 and the Great Recession. In the recent recovery, the budget deficit has declined to 3.3 percent of GDP.

 

 

Mind you, I'm starting to think that the entire deficit has been caused personally by the Cameron family's industrial-scale tax avoidance.   

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/09/david-cameron-questions-gift-mother

It turns out his Mum gave him another £200,000 in 2011 - after he'd trousered the £30,000 profit from his Dad's tax avoidance scam, plus the £300,000 inherited from his old man. Presumably, the intention is to avoid £80,000 Inheritance Tax, which they'll do provided Old Ma Cameron lives for another 2 years, I think (gifts are free of Inheritance Tax if given more than 7 years before death). Quids in, Dave....Loadsamoney!!!  

Honestly, what a bunch of chiselling, hypocritical, tax-avoiding spivs! You'd have to say that it is all rather unpatriotic. Are the Tories "the people who hate Britain"?   

In other news, the bookies are offering odds-on this bloke to be next leader, if Call-Me-Dave goes.....

 

[Webbo]

We've had this discussion before Alf. You're bound to have deficits during certain stages of the economic cycle. If you claim to be Keynesian you shouldn't be increasing the deficit during the longest boom in history. Not only should you be using the boom to repay debt but you should take money out of the economy to stop it from over heating but by increasing spending you're stoking up the boom. Bust always follows boom and the bigger the boom, the bigger the bust.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Gordon Brown told us he'd abolished boom and bust, the problem was he actually believed it. Labour claimed to be Keynesian but increased the deficit while they should have been running a surplus. If they had run the economy in a responsible way all this so call austerity wouldn't be necessary.

You say that, but austerity is a choice and one I expect would have been made by the current Government regardless of the situation... plus i believe the US decided to go the other way following 2007/8, pumping in a huge fiscal stimulus to their economy, further cementing the idea that austerity is a choice not a requirement.

[Strokes]

You say that, but austerity is a choice and one I expect would have been made by the current Government regardless of the situation... plus i believe the US decided to go the other way following 2007/8, pumping in a huge fiscal stimulus to their economy, further cementing the idea that austerity is a choice not a requirement.

So the solution to overspending is more over spending? How long can that go on for?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

So the solution to overspending is more over spending? How long can that go on for?

Well if you consider despite a considerable period of austerity, our debt to GDP ratio is yet to significantly move in the desired direction, you could equally ask how long can this go on for.

And sometimes, spending to create growth is the answer... many a business has turned into a success because it was willing to borrow / obtain funding so that it can grow. Starving that business of funds is unlikely to make it a success.

[Webbo]

You say that, but austerity is a choice and one I expect would have been made by the current Government regardless of the situation... plus i believe the US decided to go the other way following 2007/8, pumping in a huge fiscal stimulus to their economy, further cementing the idea that austerity is a choice not a requirement.

We were told that austerity would cause a triple dip recession, that unemployment would go through the roof, neither has happened. Our growth has been at least on a par or better than America on average while reducing the deficit.

 

The deficit should and could have come down sooner but at least we're travelling in the right direction while America has to worry what will happen when the stimulus is turned off.